Chicago White Sox Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 08:37 PM) What's wrong with getting a cheap insurance policy like Pierre? I'll wager his OBP will be higher than Viciedo's against righties in August and September. And no one would bet against you, but I'd wager that Viciedo's OPS against RHP will be higher than Pierre's in August and September. Is there a reason you continue focusing on OBP and completely ignore slugging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 08:37 PM) Appreciate the comment Jamshack. Here is my quick two points on Viciedo. 1.) Can't waste this opportunity, get the best starting pitcher available. Unfortunately you can't trade Jordan Danks to accomplish that. 2.) Viciedo struggles against right-handers. What's wrong with getting a cheap insurance policy like Pierre? I'll wager his OBP will be higher than Viciedo's against righties in August and September. Marty, I agree that we shouldn't view Viciedo as untouchable, as I think we can get a top starter who has more than .5 a season left on their contract for him, but replacing Viciedo with Pierre is puke worthy. Pierre gives you a decent BA, and that's it, his defense isn't even good in LF anymore. We could do a lot better for not much more money or talent, please stop bringing up Pierre because no one here will agree with you then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 08:45 PM) Marty, I agree that we shouldn't view Viciedo as untouchable, as I think we can get a top starter who has more than .5 a season left on their contract for him, but replacing Viciedo with Pierre is puke worthy. Pierre gives you a decent BA, and that's it, his defense isn't even good in LF anymore. We could do a lot better for not much more money or talent, please stop bringing up Pierre because no one here will agree with you then. By all means then they should do it. Do you have examples in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 08:45 PM) And no one would bet against you, but I'd wager that Viciedo's OPS against RHP will be higher than Pierre's in August and September. Is there a reason you continue focusing on OBP and completely ignore slugging? I think it's more important to keep turning that lineup over, getting guys on base for the middle of the order, than it is to sacrifice that for the occasional HR. A benefit of that is you have Viciedo on the bench to pinch hit late in the game against a lefty. PH for Beckham, De Aza, or (for instance) Pierre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 07:51 PM) Marty is to DV, as greg is to Ozzie - completely incapable of discussing ANYthing else. Keep derailing threads, Marty. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 08:08 PM) I think it's more important to keep turning that lineup over, getting guys on base for the middle of the order, than it is to sacrifice that for the occasional HR. A benefit of that is you have Viciedo on the bench to pinch hit late in the game against a lefty. PH for Beckham, De Aza, or (for instance) Pierre. Voodoo baseball. Been there, done that. Won't work no matter how many ways you try repackaging it to make it somehow more palatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 08:54 PM) By all means then they should do it. Do you have examples in mind? Ryan Sweeney would be a fun return, slot him in the 9th hole, provides decent defense in LF and won't kill you at the plate. Will Venable Chris Denofria Franklin Gutierrez (if healthy) Laynce Nix Corey Hart (pricier) Cuddyer (if you can get him cheap) That's just a list I came up with in ten minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Nate Schierholtz is supposedly available. His OPS is 719. (Going along with Marty's trade Viciedo idea). Brad Bergesen of the O's was released. Still waiting to see what team will claim Jonathan Sanchez. Doubt he gets all the way to the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:13 PM) Ryan Sweeney would be a fun return, slot him in the 9th hole, provides decent defense in LF and won't kill you at the plate. Will Venable Chris Denofria Franklin Gutierrez (if healthy) Laynce Nix Corey Hart (pricier) Cuddyer (if you can get him cheap) That's just a list I came up with in ten minutes. My sense is that Rockettes would love to trade Cuddyer, and his $10MM salary per yr thru 2014. They have a couple of minor league outfield prospects who can play. That's pretty pricey for a 4th outfielder. But he is still a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 08:19 AM) My sense is that Rockettes would love to trade Cuddyer, and his $10MM salary per yr thru 2014. They have a couple of minor league outfield prospects who can play. That's pretty pricey for a 4th outfielder. But he is still a good player. I'd need the Rockies to eat half that contract, but there's something that could be worked out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Well, somehow one would have to think adding $25-30 million per year in payroll (trading Viciedo, adding/extending Greinke and bringing in Cuddyer) probably isn't going to fly with JR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 10:13 PM) Ryan Sweeney would be a fun return, slot him in the 9th hole, provides decent defense in LF and won't kill you at the plate. Will Venable Chris Denofria Franklin Gutierrez (if healthy) Laynce Nix Corey Hart (pricier) Cuddyer (if you can get him cheap) That's just a list I came up with in ten minutes. None of those guys comes as cheaply as Pierre. When you fix the rotation and bullpen before addressing LF that's the biggest consideration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 09:08 AM) None of those guys comes as cheaply as Pierre. When you fix the rotation and bullpen before addressing LF that's the biggest consideration I don't agree here, they'd be just or very close to as cheap as Pierre, now of course Hart and Cuddyer would require more but those other guys would come cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Well yea, Pierre comes cheaply because he sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 09:09 AM) Well yea, Pierre comes cheaply because he sucks And (here's the key point) he's not likely to maintain his pace. Especially considering he'd be platooned and only be playing 50%-60% of the time. Besides, you'd be sacrificing a TON of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Seeing Pierre's name in a few posts here-- just to clarify, his name wasn't actually brought up based on anything real, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 09:45 AM) Seeing Pierre's name in a few posts here-- just to clarify, his name wasn't actually brought up based on anything real, right? No, it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 09:38 AM) And (here's the key point) he's not likely to maintain his pace. Especially considering he'd be platooned and only be playing 50%-60% of the time. Besides, you'd be sacrificing a TON of power. Replacing Viciedo with even a .350 obp, improves this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 10:00 AM) Replacing Viciedo with even a .350 obp, improves this team. No. Also, you're nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 09:45 AM) Seeing Pierre's name in a few posts here-- just to clarify, his name wasn't actually brought up based on anything real, right? As was pointed on yesterday many posters on here didn't want Youkilis. Being contrary to Soxtalk opinion probably means you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) No. Also, you're nuts. Do Viciedo's outs count less because he IS ONLY 23!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 10:03 AM) As was pointed on yesterday many posters on here didn't want Youkilis. Being contrary to Soxtalk opinion probably means you're right. The reason was because Youkilis was trending badly away from his normal stats and people thought he was done. He isnt. Pierre is way exceeding his normal stats, but will never provide the power and RBIs that Viciedo will provide. And even though Viciedo isnt exactly brilliant in the outfield, he hasnt been really bad either, and his arm has saved more than a few runs. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 10:05 AM) Do Viciedo's outs count less because he IS ONLY 23!!!! Pierre makes more outs, do his outs count less because he gets on base 1 more time out of 10 than Viciedo? Will that 1 out of 10 actually be worth it in a platoon situation? Very doubtful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) No. Also, you're nuts. You probably should read this. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86245 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 10:05 AM) Do Viciedo's outs count less because he IS ONLY 23!!!! Only if Pierre's history of being one of the biggest out makers the history of baseball doesn't count because he has a nice small sample result from the first 3.5 months of this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 As was pointed on yesterday many posters on here didn't want Youkilis. Being contrary to Soxtalk opinion probably means you're right. Youkilis was much less of a risk, considering the utter failure that 3B had been so far. There is actually a risk that you make LF worse by getting Pierre. Also, many posters on here didn't want Youkilis because of the assumption that it would take actual talent and or significant dollars to get him, when it turned out that it took neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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