Shooting in CO at Batman premiere

[NorthSideSox72]

You keep beating me to the punch.

We have some commonality in our backgrounds.

 

[greg775]

You'd be arrested.

 

Why? We are talking attempted murder here. Our society is too soft IMO. This bastard shot at me and my famly and I can't beat the s*** out of him with my fists and/or smash him in the kneecaps with a baseball bat? The coward can't fight a fair fight? He's still a danger in the parking lot.

Edited July 24, 2012 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Why? We are talking attempted murder here. Our society is too soft IMO. This bastard shot at me and my famly and I can't beat the s*** out of him with my fists and/or smash him in the kneecaps with a baseball bat? The coward can't fight a fair fight? He's still a danger in the parking lot.

 

 

How would he be a danger if he clearly was giving himself up and didn't appear to be armed?

 

There has to be some imminent or reasonable expectation of harm or self-defense in order to shoot him. We don't even know if he still had all of his gear on (Kevlar vest, mask, etc.) or he was just leaning against his car with his crazy dyed hair and his hands up in the air.

 

Clearly, if he was going for a gun, then they would have been justified, but based on his reactions in court, he was probably calmly waiting to be arrested and very non-chalant in his actions.

[G&T]

Milk, what would the police's position be if a person who was in the movie theatre dodging bullets raced out of the theatre, saw this f***head leaned against his car unarmed and simply beat the living s*** out of him? Would the police be OK with it, considering that person nearly got killed by the guy in the theatre? Would you be charged with anything if you hit the suspect with a baseball bat or something? If you beat him into oblivion since the coward obviously can't fight a fair fight? Or would the police be upset and arrest you as well for beating the s*** out of the scumbag? You didn't kill the suspect you just gave him a beatdown. What would happen to you?

 

You would be arrested. Self defense requires that the threat be on going when you act. When the guy is standing by the car unarmed there is nothing to defend yourself from.

 

That said, it would be an interesting case. I would argue that if he were at the theater, leaning against the car, the possibility that he is armed and would continue shooting is so high that self defense is still warranted.

[NorthSideSox72]

You would be arrested. Self defense requires that the threat be on going when you act. When the guy is standing by the car unarmed there is nothing to defend yourself from.

 

That said, it would be an interesting case. I would argue that if he were at the theater, leaning against the car, the possibility that he is armed and would continue shooting is so high that self defense is still warranted.

The civilian hurdle may be that low, but the police hurdle isn't.

 

[greg775]

You would be arrested. Self defense requires that the threat be on going when you act. When the guy is standing by the car unarmed there is nothing to defend yourself from.

 

That said, it would be an interesting case. I would argue that if he were at the theater, leaning against the car, the possibility that he is armed and would continue shooting is so high that self defense is still warranted.

 

I agree with your second paragraph.

Besides if I just beat the s*** out of the low-life punk like a regular bar fight in which one guy pummels the crap out of another, what is the most I could get? I mean I'm beating the hell out of a guy who just killed 12 people and put my life in danger when I was in the theatre. It'd take an OJ jury or Casey Anthony jury to put me away for beating up such a lowlife punk. Wouldn't police applaud me for beating the piss out of such a coward?

Edited July 24, 2012 by greg775

[Milkman delivers]

The civilian hurdle may be that low, but the police hurdle isn't.

 

Yes. The person would definitely be charged, but it would probably get changed to a lesser charge in court.

[Milkman delivers]

I agree with your second paragraph.

Besides if I just beat the s*** out of the low-life punk like a regular bar fight in which one guy pummels the crap out of another, what is the most I could get? I mean I'm beating the hell out of a guy who just killed 12 people and put my life in danger when I was in the theatre. It'd take an OJ jury or Casey Anthony jury to put me away for beating up such a lowlife punk. Wouldn't police applaud me for beating the piss out of such a coward?

 

Depending on what you did to him, attempted murder or aggravated attempted murder. More likely it would just be a simple battery if you didn't really f*** the guy up, and you'd never see jail time.

[greg775]

Yes. The person would definitely be charged, but it would probably get changed to a lesser charge in court.

 

As a civilian who came across this scumbag, you don't have handcuffs or anything to work with.

So wouldn't it be assumed you might have to pound the prick into submission to hold him for the police? I don't see why a guy who got shot at in a theatre could get in trouble for inflicting some damage on the person who did this!

[StrangeSox]

I agree with your second paragraph.

Besides if I just beat the s*** out of the low-life punk like a regular bar fight in which one guy pummels the crap out of another, what is the most I could get? I mean I'm beating the hell out of a guy who just killed 12 people and put my life in danger when I was in the theatre. It'd take an OJ jury or Casey Anthony jury to put me away for beating up such a lowlife punk. Wouldn't police applaud me for beating the piss out of such a coward?

 

Two people who were found "not guilty"

[Milkman delivers]

As a civilian who came across this scumbag, you don't have handcuffs or anything to work with.

So wouldn't it be assumed you might have to pound the prick into submission to hold him for the police? I don't see why a guy who got shot at in a theatre could get in trouble for inflicting some damage on the person who did this!

 

It all depends on his actions at the time you try to detain him.

[StrangeSox]

As a civilian who came across this scumbag, you don't have handcuffs or anything to work with.

So wouldn't it be assumed you might have to pound the prick into submission to hold him for the police? I don't see why a guy who got shot at in a theatre could get in trouble for inflicting some damage on the person who did this!

 

Because the police were there and there would be no reason for you to follow him into the parking lot.

[greg775]

Depending on what you did to him, attempted murder or aggravated attempted murder. More likely it would just be a simple battery if you didn't really f*** the guy up, and you'd never see jail time.

 

That makes sense, but I still think it's unfair that I'd get charged and convicted of a crime for just beating the crap out of a punk (and holding him for the cops) of a guy who could have killed me. Maybe I'd need a good lawyer and another pussified jury afraid to put anybody away.

[greg775]

Two people who were found "not guilty"

 

Oops I meant to "not" put me away.

[Milkman delivers]

That makes sense, but I still think it's unfair that I'd get charged and convicted of a crime for just beating the crap out of a punk (and holding him for the cops) of a guy who could have killed me. Maybe I'd need a good lawyer and another pussified jury afraid to put anybody away.

 

There's also a chance you'd get away with it scot-free, or just a slap on the wrists. It's a crap shoot.

[Jordan4life_2007]

As a civilian who came across this scumbag, you don't have handcuffs or anything to work with.

So wouldn't it be assumed you might have to pound the prick into submission to hold him for the police? I don't see why a guy who got shot at in a theatre could get in trouble for inflicting some damage on the person who did this!

 

lol. greg, the guy had an assault rifle, a 12 gauge shotgun and a glock. Ain't no civilian goin' nowhere near his ass.

[greg775]

There's also a chance you'd get away with it scot-free, or just a slap on the wrists. It's a crap shoot.

 

Oh.

Hey Milk, did you see the quote from the police chief how the police were "very mad" that the lowlife booby trapped his own apartment, ostensibly to kill cops who tried to get in the apartment.

As an officer, would you also be pissed at the subject for this?

I found that interesting that the cops were really hacked off.

[greg775]

lol. greg, the guy had an assault rifle, a 12 gauge shotgun and a glock. Ain't no civilian goin' nowhere near his ass.

 

Yeah but if he killed one of your loved ones and you saw him unarmed you might definitely want to take your chances and rough the bastard up. I think real rage might take over as it should.

Edited July 24, 2012 by greg775

[Milkman delivers]

Oh.

Hey Milk, did you see the quote from the police chief how the police were "very mad" that the lowlife booby trapped his own apartment, ostensibly to kill cops who tried to get in the apartment.

As an officer, would you also be pissed at the subject for this?

I found that interesting that the cops were really hacked off.

 

Yes, Greg.

 

Yeah but if he killed one of your loved ones and you saw him unarmed you might definitely want to take your chances and rough the bastard up. I think real rage might take over as it should.

 

If you were to kill him in the parking lot in the scenario you lay out, you'd likely end up getting charged with 2nd degree murder. You'd serve jail time, but not as much as 1st.

[greg775]

Milk, what kind of police officer are you? Do you drive a squad car daily? Or do u do investigations or what?

Is Chicago a horrific place to live right now crime wise? I read about all the murders. Is working the West side and Southwest side of town amazingly dangerous?

 

Also, what are the rules as far as you giving a driver a break on a speeding ticket?

Are you surprised the cop here did not ticket me for going 82 in a 70 after the 14 inning Royals game the other night?

I pulled over right away and was polite and told him I thought it was a 75 zone, which I did, and he checked my record and told me he saved me 200 bucks by not giving me a ticket.

The economy being the way it is, I'd figure all cops would be encouraged to write tickets of people like me going 12 over.

Edited July 24, 2012 by greg775

[Milkman delivers]

Milk, what kind of police officer are you? Do you drive a squad car daily? Or do u do investigations or what?

Is Chicago a horrific place to live right now crime wise? I read about all the murders. Is working the West side and Southwest side of town amazingly dangerous?

 

I'm County, and on patrol now. I live in the city. Crime is always around, not sure how to answer that.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yeah but if he killed one of your loved ones and you saw him unarmed you might definitely want to take your chances and rough the bastard up. I think real rage might take over as it should.

 

That's just not at all realistic. If you were in that theater and fortunate enough to have survived, you're going get as far away from the scene as possible. Not to mention that nobody knew what the hell the guy looked like anyway. Multiple witnesses said the guy straight up looked like he was a SWAT officer.

[greg775]

I'm County, and on patrol now. I live in the city. Crime is always around, not sure how to answer that.

 

I wish you hadn't told us you were a cop. Suddenly I'm scared of you. Police frighten me, even friendly ones.

[greg775]

That's just not at all realistic. If you were in that theater and fortunate enough to have survived, you're going get as far away from the scene as possible. Not to mention that nobody knew what the hell the guy looked like anyway. Multiple witnesses said the guy straight up looked like he was a SWAT officer.

 

He had orange hair.

I think you might be full of rage if your 6 year old child was killed by this bastard.

[Jordan4life_2007]

He had orange hair.

I think you might be full of rage if your 6 year old child was killed by this bastard.

 

Nobody knew what his hair color was until he surrendered to the cops. If my 6-year old kid gets shot, I'm staying with him/her or trying to get him/her away from the scene or some help. I'm not morphing into the incredible hulk to chase down some guy with that type of firepower.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Jordan4life