Shooting in CO at Batman premiere

[StrangeSox]

Look for a guy wearing a gas mask and kevlar, dressed in all black. And aim for the head

Ok seal team six

 

Edit: look at the recent incident at the internet cafe for example. Well-lit room, easily identifiable assailants who are robbing and not shooting or looking to kill. Yet how many times did that guy miss at point blank range? Now put that into a dark, packed theater full of panicking people and some sort of gas. Odds are not good.

Edited July 21, 2012 by StrangeSox

[greg775]

Doesn't matter what we think, greg. There's a system in place and he has rights.

 

Our system is the best, but this case is cut and dried.

He is the killer; he did the killing; he was caught; his apartment is boobytrapped, he had the guns by his car, he did the killings.

I want this bastard murdered in jail right now.

I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person.

This f***brain MURDERED a six year old kid who was in the words of her aunt, "excited about life, like all 6 year olds; just started swimming and proud of the fact she could swim."

This douchbag mother f***er killed all these people.

HE DID IT; everybody knows he did it, no reasonable doubt.

KILL HIM. Death penalty. bye bye.

Or fellow inmates currently, please get to him and kill him.

[mgaughan09]

Large capacity magazines are legal. You can also purchase automatic weapons but there's a bunch of red tape and they're very expensive.

 

Edit: large capacity mags used to be restricted under the awb but that expiried like six years ago. This came up after either the giffords shooting or one of the college shootings if not both.

What full autos are legal in this country? Maybe a semi auto like an AR you could mod, but I can't think of any fully automatic rifles that are legal in the country but I don't know much about guns. Sure you could go to a gun convention and find someone whos got what your looking for but thats under the table. Not trolling, serious question.

[Wanne]

Lot's of unknowledgeable gun people on here (not a slam by any means). StrangeSox was correct...you don’t need a license to own an NFA weapon...or a large capacity mag. Full-auto machineguns (not the other NFA devices) can only be owned by civilians if they are registered as such BEFORE May 19, 1986...they are transferable...and yes...lots of red tape. But...you can walk in and walk out with any AR or AK from any gun dealer. Hell...if you have 9-10K you can get a Barrett M82A1 50 BMG (which is my dream gun to own btw). He seemed to have a clean background check. And as far as large capacity mags...I'd be surprised if he had "several" 100-rounders. He was using an AR which you can get 100-round drum mags for. An AK can get a 75-round mag. Most AR and AK's come with standard 30-round mags. If he bought 6000 rounds and all these mags he's spent a big chunk of money. They do have things called "Slide Fires" which is replacing the stock on an AR or AK with a combo stock and grip. It's based on centrifugal force or "bump firing"...which basically makes your weapon an automatic...and it's completely legal. They go for around $350.

 

And to answer a few responses...you can say CCW people in the crowd wouldn't have made a difference or made things worse...but I don't see it that way. And yes he was covered in Kevlar...but being a novice you're still vulnerable. We'll never know...but I can't imagine that situation. And btw...in Arizona you don't need a CCW permit for concealed carry.

 

I just find it odd that something like this happens with all the stink about the UN Arms Treaty talk going on right now (which is gonna cause a HUGE stink soon)...kind of a CIA "false flag" scenario IMO...like a healthy Andrew Breitbart dropping dead of natural causes at 43 (who said he had bad video of Barry)...and I'll stop now with my other theories.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Wanne

[Jake]

I agree that especially in this situation that a bunch of people standing to return fire could have made s*** VERY crazy. I would have wanted a gun on me, though. I don't know if I would have fired it right away for these reasons (riot helmet, kevlar vest, smoke in the air, darkness) but if I could get that shot in the neck/mouth region I would have taken it, but it would have required extreme close range.

 

There's really not a lot you can do to prevent things like this. It wouldn't make me mad if you start making places more secure, etc. but the main thing you can do is try to keep people happy, connected to society, etc. but it will always be someone's right to disconnect. People that have some kind of mental problem will always choose to disconnect to some extent and bad things will happen, unfortunately. I don't know if him believing that there would be concealed weapons among the patrons would have deterred him because he was never going to think logically.

 

It falls in the category of something like a natural disaster. You can take cover, check the weather channel, etc. but you might just be unlucky and get hit. That is the human existence.

[mgaughan09]

Very informative post Wanne. Thanks.

 

And good point on it being like a "natural disaster", Jake. Pretty obvious this guy was determined to live out his Batman fantasy and unfortunately there was nothing anybody could do to stop him.

Edited July 22, 2012 by northside sawx

[caulfield12]

Lot's of unknowledgeable gun people on here (not a slam by any means). StrangeSox was correct...you don’t need a license to own an NFA weapon...or a large capacity mag. Full-auto machineguns (not the other NFA devices) can only be owned by civilians if they are registered as such BEFORE May 19, 1986...they are transferable...and yes...lots of red tape. But...you can walk in and walk out with any AR or AK from any gun dealer. Hell...if you have 9-10K you can get a Barrett M82A1 50 BMG (which is my dream gun to own btw). He seemed to have a clean background check. And as far as large capacity mags...I'd be surprised if he had "several" 100-rounders. He was using an AR which you can get 100-round drum mags for. An AK can get a 75-round mag. Most AR and AK's come with standard 30-round mags. If he bought 6000 rounds and all these mags he's spent a big chunk of money. They do have things called "Slide Fires" which is replacing the stock on an AR or AK with a combo stock and grip. It's based on centrifugal force or "bump firing"...which basically makes your weapon an automatic...and it's completely legal. They go for around $350.

 

And to answer a few responses...you can say CCW people in the crowd wouldn't have made a difference or made things worse...but I don't see it that way. And yes he was covered in Kevlar...but being a novice you're still vulnerable. We'll never know...but I can't imagine that situation. And btw...in Arizona you don't need a CCW permit for concealed carry.

 

I just find it odd that something like this happens with all the stink about the UN Arms Treaty talk going on right now (which is gonna cause a HUGE stink soon)...kind of a CIA "false flag" scenario IMO...like a healthy Andrew Breitbart dropping dead of natural causes at 43 (who said he had bad video of Barry)...and I'll stop now with my other theories.

 

 

You're serious with that last paragraph? Really?

 

There could be shootings like this week after week after week and I'm not convinced anything would change...in fact, it would probably make it more likely that people already inclined to do so would even more fervently want to arm themselves, rather than agreeing to "disarm."

 

 

 

Nolan on shootings: 'unbearably savage'

Helmer breaks silence on Aurora massacre

By Josh L. Dickey (www.variety.com)

 

Nolan

"The Dark Knight Rises" director Christopher Nolan has issued the following statement about the early Friday shooting that claimed 12 victims:

"Speaking on behalf of the cast and crew of 'The Dark Knight Rises,' I would like to express our profound sorrow at the senseless tragedy that has befallen the entire Aurora community. I would not presume to know anything about the victims of the shooting but that they were there last night to watch a movie. I believe movies are one of the great American art forms and the shared experience of watching a story unfold on screen is an important and joyful pastime. The movie theater is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me. Nothing any of us can say could ever adequately express our feelings for the innocent victims of this appalling crime, but our thoughts are with them and their families."

Edited July 22, 2012 by caulfield12

[Wanne]

You're serious with that last paragraph? Really?

 

There could be shootings like this week after week after week and I'm not convinced anything would change...in fact, it would probably make it more likely that people already inclined to do so would even more fervently want to arm themselves, rather than agreeing to "disarm."

 

Serious as a heart attack caulfield. The "disarming" you're referring to won't be voluntary. Look up the whole UN Arms Treaty deal currently going on. I doubt it would get ratified by the Senate...but there's deep ramifications. Trying to keep this "non-political". And you are correct about people arming themselves. Look at sales and stock for companies like Sturm-Ruger and Smith and Wesson. Sales through the roof the past two to three years. Between 9/11 (I'll spare you my theories), people thinking the 2nd Amendment will be attacked soon (see Obama's appointments of Sotomayor and Kagen...STAUNCH pro-gun control), the whole Zombie apocalypse due to a virus (why does the CDC list this on their sight btw)...the whole country is programmed for fear and paranoia. Violence is normal. From movies, to video games...it's completely out of control. Part of a grand plan IMO. New World Order (which both W and Barry Obama have both used the phrase)...doesn't sit well with me. Who knows. Call me nuts or paranoid if you want...I just choose to not ignore it.

 

Sorry if I seemed to hijack this thread (which I didn't mean to)...

[Jordan4life_2007]

Our system is the best, but this case is cut and dried.

He is the killer; he did the killing; he was caught; his apartment is boobytrapped, he had the guns by his car, he did the killings.

I want this bastard murdered in jail right now.

I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person.

This f***brain MURDERED a six year old kid who was in the words of her aunt, "excited about life, like all 6 year olds; just started swimming and proud of the fact she could swim."

This douchbag mother f***er killed all these people.

HE DID IT; everybody knows he did it, no reasonable doubt.

KILL HIM. Death penalty. bye bye.

Or fellow inmates currently, please get to him and kill him.

 

I understand all that, greg. I'd be totally fine with a live beheading. But the guy will get a legitimate defense. He has that right. I'm sure his lawyers will play the insanity card and I'm not even sure if the dude is competent. You've got to be pretty f***ed up in the head to do what he did. In a case like this, they're no doubt going to keep the guy isolated. So forget about all that death by inmates stuff. Bottomline: there's nothing that anybody can do to him that will be even 5% of what he's done to others. Even if he gets the death penalty, it'll be a lame ass painless lethal injection. That's just the way it is.

[Quin]

Pretty easy, in a dark theater with all the confusion and chaos, if there are 5 or 6 people returning fire, more people would've gotten shot, cops don't know exactly how many gunmen are there, armed citizens could easily be mistaken as the criminals, they can get shot. It's not like Holmes had a sign on him saying "bad guy". And If you're in the theater and you have a gun and try to fight back and you see someone else with a gun, are you gonna ask him if he's a good guy or a bad guy, how would you know for sure he's not with the criminal? There were two gunmen at Columbine, it's not always one guy.

 

This. So much this.

 

Firing back in a dark, crowded theater and now who knows who's the bad guy and who's a vigilante. And what if these other people with guns start shooting each other and Holmes decides to make them think someone else is the guy who started it? He can just rip off the mask and look like one of the vigilantes.

 

I understand all that, greg. I'd be totally fine with a live beheading. But the guy will get a legitimate defense. He has that right. I'm sure his lawyers will play the insanity card and I'm not even sure if the dude is competent. You've got to be pretty f***ed up in the head to do what he did. In a case like this, they're no doubt going to keep the guy isolated. So forget about all that death by inmates stuff. Bottomline: there's nothing that anybody can do to him that will be even 5% of what he's done to others. Even if he gets the death penalty, it'll be a lame ass painless lethal injection. That's just the way it is.

 

I don't like the death penalty, but I feel like I'd be ok with it in this case.

[greg775]

I understand all that, greg. I'd be totally fine with a live beheading. But the guy will get a legitimate defense. He has that right. I'm sure his lawyers will play the insanity card and I'm not even sure if the dude is competent. You've got to be pretty f***ed up in the head to do what he did. In a case like this, they're no doubt going to keep the guy isolated. So forget about all that death by inmates stuff. Bottomline: there's nothing that anybody can do to him that will be even 5% of what he's done to others. Even if he gets the death penalty, it'll be a lame ass painless lethal injection. That's just the way it is.

 

I don't know why you have the right to a legitimate defense when he was caught doing it. He did it.

To the attorneys out there: If I was guilty of killing a few people in Kansas and the national media didn't give a f*** about the case, wouldn't I be tried within a month and after a trial that lasted, oh about a day, quietly be sent up the river or given the death penalty? In this case, I hate the fact it's going to be highly publicized and he's going to get a great defense team who want the publicity, etc.

This man killed a f***ing 6 year old and her mother; he killed eight others, wounded 70 or something.

He has no rights. Why? Cause there's no doubt. He was seen doing it. He did it.

The only court case will be a bunch of made for TV crap.

Damn I can't believe that coward didn't take his own life or raise his gun to a cop so he could have got Bonnie and Clyded.

f***.

And I dont think you have to be f***ed up in the head to do what he did.

You watch pretty much any action movie and people are getting assault guns and blowing zillions away. I'm sure he just took on a character. He isn't insane. He ordered all the ammo.

he's guilty; kill him please.

 

I think I need to speak to a minister about why evil like this happens.

 

Edited July 22, 2012 by greg775

[caulfield12]

I don't know why you have the right to a legitimate defense when he was caught doing it. He did it.

To the attorneys out there: If I was guilty of killing a few people in Kansas and the national media didn't give a f*** about the case, wouldn't I be tried within a month and after a trial that lasted, oh about a day, quietly be sent up the river or given the death penalty? In this case, I hate the fact it's going to be highly publicized and he's going to get a great defense team who want the publicity, etc.

This man killed a f***ing 6 year old and her mother; he killed eight others, wounded 70 or something.

He has no rights. Why? Cause there's no doubt. He was seen doing it. He did it.

The only court case will be a bunch of made for TV crap.

Damn I can't believe that coward didn't take his own life or raise his gun to a cop so he could have got Bonnie and Clyded.

f***.

And I dont think you have to be f***ed up in the head to do what he did.

You watch pretty much any action movie and people are getting assault guns and blowing zillions away. I'm sure he just took on a character. He isn't insane. He ordered all the ammo.

he's guilty; kill him please.

 

I think I need to speak to a minister about why evil like this happens.

 

 

I'm not going to argue about whether you could kill a few (2-3, by definition) and the case wouldn't become so famous.

 

The fact of the matter is that no death penalty trial ever is over in just one day...because then the defense provided would probably be considered incompetent and the case would likely to be retried or appealed over and over again. That's why there are myriad organizations and a network of lawyers out there who exist to provide pro bono work in these situations, like the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, AL. They specialized in this...a one day trial could never occur.

 

As far as wanting to live in a country with no rights for criminals, move to Thailand, Singapore or China and commit a drug crime.

 

By definition, to commit an act like that, it has to be an act of insanity in a sense, even if planned out with malice and forethought.

 

Greg, as far as your last question goes...about why God permits evil to exist in the world, it's the oldest question in the book. Many will use events like this as their reason for not believing in God. Or perhaps they feel that God doesn't exist so it's not such a harsh penalty to let the victim off easily by silent injecting him with potassium chloride and shutting down his heart. Would you feel there was justice and peace for the families at the end of that standoff had he just shot himself in head? Then, all the victims' families would spend the rest of their lives wondering why he did it. That still might happen. But the majority of the time, executing someone doesn't ever bring peace or closure because you can never bring that family member back. There are many Christians who believe that no matter what a person has done, it's not their place to judge or condemn another human being, that only God can do that. There are many passages in the New Testament...."let he who is without sin cast the first stone, judge not least ye be judged, etc." That question always gets thrown out there..."what would Jesus do?" Would Jesus forgive the shooter or condemn him to death? Well, of course, that's where you have the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" avenging God of the Old Testament. Yet they co-exist, do they not, just as peoples' reactions to these events will always differ. Inevitably, someone will say to those who want him to have a life sentence without the possibility of parole..."if it was your family member who was one of the victims, would you still feel the same way? You wouldn't want revenge? You wouldn't want the satisfaction of watching him die in front of you?" Well, believe it or not there are just as many believers as non-believers who wouldn't feel any better about watching him die.

 

It's kind of like the idea that only through evil or bad things happening can we understand the nature of free will, grace and peace or forgiveness. Without bad things happening, how could we ever learn to appreciate good? Wouldn't life be pretty dull if God created the world and programmed us like robots to carry out his will and never to sin? Would that be pleasing? At least, that's the Christian perspective on it.

 

 

Holmes had recently withdrawn from a competitive graduate program in neuroscience at the University of Colorado-Denver, where he was one of six students at the school to get National Institutes of Health grant money. He recently took an intense three-part, oral exam that marks the end of the first year of the four-year program there, but university officials would not say if he passed, citing privacy concerns. The university said Holmes gave no reason for his withdrawal, a decision he made in June.

 

"The focus of the program is on training outstanding neuroscientists and academicians who will make significant contributions to neurobiology," the university said. The doctoral program usually takes five to seven years to complete, it said.

 

In a resume posted on Monster.com, Holmes listed himself as an "aspiring scientist" and said he was looking for a job as a laboratory technician.

 

The resume, first obtained by The Press-Enterprise in Riverside, paints a picture of a brilliant young man brimming with potential: He worked as a summer intern at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla in 2006 and mapped the neurons of Zebra finches and studied the flight muscles of hummingbirds while an undergraduate at the University of California, Riverside.

 

He also worked as a cabin counselor to underprivileged children at a summer camp in Los Angeles in 2008. In a statement, Camp Max Straus confirmed Holmes had worked there for eight weeks. The camp provided no other detail about Holmes but said such counselors are generally responsible for the care and guidance of roughly 10 children.

 

Neighbors and former classmates in California said although Holmes was whip-smart, he was a loner who said little and was easily forgotten — until this week.

www.yahoonews.com

Edited July 22, 2012 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

What full autos are legal in this country? Maybe a semi auto like an AR you could mod, but I can't think of any fully automatic rifles that are legal in the country but I don't know much about guns. Sure you could go to a gun convention and find someone whos got what your looking for but thats under the table. Not trolling, serious question.

There was a bill in 1986 or so that restricted them so that you could only purchase ones made before 1986. But they are otherwise completely legal. My former boss has a few.

[StrangeSox]

Lot's of unknowledgeable gun people on here (not a slam by any means). StrangeSox was correct...you don’t need a license to own an NFA weapon...or a large capacity mag. Full-auto machineguns (not the other NFA devices) can only be owned by civilians if they are registered as such BEFORE May 19, 1986...they are transferable...and yes...lots of red tape. But...you can walk in and walk out with any AR or AK from any gun dealer. Hell...if you have 9-10K you can get a Barrett M82A1 50 BMG (which is my dream gun to own btw). He seemed to have a clean background check. And as far as large capacity mags...I'd be surprised if he had "several" 100-rounders. He was using an AR which you can get 100-round drum mags for. An AK can get a 75-round mag. Most AR and AK's come with standard 30-round mags. If he bought 6000 rounds and all these mags he's spent a big chunk of money. They do have things called "Slide Fires" which is replacing the stock on an AR or AK with a combo stock and grip. It's based on centrifugal force or "bump firing"...which basically makes your weapon an automatic...and it's completely legal. They go for around $350.

 

And to answer a few responses...you can say CCW people in the crowd wouldn't have made a difference or made things worse...but I don't see it that way. And yes he was covered in Kevlar...but being a novice you're still vulnerable. We'll never know...but I can't imagine that situation. And btw...in Arizona you don't need a CCW permit for concealed carry.

 

I just find it odd that something like this happens with all the stink about the UN Arms Treaty talk going on right now (which is gonna cause a HUGE stink soon)...kind of a CIA "false flag" scenario IMO...like a healthy Andrew Breitbart dropping dead of natural causes at 43 (who said he had bad video of Barry)...and I'll stop now with my other theories.

 

I've only ever heard of complaints about those 100 round mags. And his jammed.

[Milkman delivers]

You cant live in fear.

 

Bad things happen, one day will be my day, but random s*** is going to happen.

 

Exactly. I went to the movie on Friday night, brought my gun, and sat right by the entrance. Not that I thought anything would happen, but you can't let things like this change the way you live.

[mgaughan09]

There was a bill in 1986 or so that restricted them so that you could only purchase ones made before 1986. But they are otherwise completely legal. My former boss has a few.

Thanks. Former boss has some? Do you work for a PMC? If you don't mind me asking

[lostfan]

I don't know why you have the right to a legitimate defense when he was caught doing it. He did it.

To the attorneys out there: If I was guilty of killing a few people in Kansas and the national media didn't give a f*** about the case, wouldn't I be tried within a month and after a trial that lasted, oh about a day, quietly be sent up the river or given the death penalty? In this case, I hate the fact it's going to be highly publicized and he's going to get a great defense team who want the publicity, etc.

This man killed a f***ing 6 year old and her mother; he killed eight others, wounded 70 or something.

He has no rights. Why? Cause there's no doubt. He was seen doing it. He did it.

The only court case will be a bunch of made for TV crap.

Damn I can't believe that coward didn't take his own life or raise his gun to a cop so he could have got Bonnie and Clyded.

f***.

And I dont think you have to be f***ed up in the head to do what he did.

You watch pretty much any action movie and people are getting assault guns and blowing zillions away. I'm sure he just took on a character. He isn't insane. He ordered all the ammo.

he's guilty; kill him please.

 

I think I need to speak to a minister about why evil like this happens.

6th Amendment to the US Constitution... like it or not, it applies to everyone no matter what

[caulfield12]

Box office update: No weekend estimates until Monday

by Grady Smith

Tags: Box Office, Movie Biz, The Dark Knight Rises

Comments 12Add comment There will be no official Dark Knight Rises numbers today.

 

All major studios in Hollywood are declining to report box office figures this weekend, in light of the tragedy in Aurora, Colorado. Although some indies are reporting grosses for limited releases, full box office results will not be made public until Monday.

 

The mutual decision — which mirrors a similar one made yesterday — is the latest effort at sensitivity following the shooting, which left 12 dead and many more injured. Warner Brothers has already canceled premieres of The Dark Knight Rises in France, Japan, and Mexico.

 

Christian Bale told CBS News, “I cannot begin to truly understand the pain and grief of the victims and their loved ones,” and director Christopher Nolan expressed his “profound sorrow” in a statement.

 

www.ew.com

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I think movie studies understand that this sort of event makes the home theater option much more enticing.

[IlliniKrush]

Exactly. I went to the movie on Friday night, brought my gun, and sat right by the entrance. Not that I thought anything would happen, but you can't let things like this change the way you live.

You normally bring a gun with to the movies?

[DrunkBomber]

You normally bring a gun with to the movies?

Exactly what I was going to ask. What you described certainly doesnt sound like not living in fear and living your normal daily life.

[knightni]

Not to make light of the situation, but why was a 6 year old at a midnight showing of a PG-13 film?

[Balta1701]

Look for a guy wearing a gas mask and kevlar, dressed in all black. And aim for the head

Do you remember the North Hollywood shootout? 2 men in body armor held police at bay for nearly an hour while firing weapons. They had no armor over their face, and were being shot at by dozens of police. It took an hour for police to actually hit them in a place that could wound them around their armor. Why? Because "Aim for the head" under ideal circumstances isn't easy, you aim center of mass for a reason, you're less likely to miss, the head is a small target compared to center of mass. Now, even assume ideal circumstances, except you are under fire yourself. Thus, you don't have time to stand in front of the shooter and take aim, if you try to do that you die. You have to get off a shot quickly. Now, assume that the responder doesn't have the training of a police officer to get off a shot quickly. Now the scenario is even worse.

 

Then, add in any other situation. Like a cramped hallway, or an explosive device, crowds of people screaming and trying to take cover or get away, in this case tear gas and darkness. What you just described is a hollywood scene, it isn't real life.

[Balta1701]

I just find it odd that something like this happens with all the stink about the UN Arms Treaty talk going on right now (which is gonna cause a HUGE stink soon)...kind of a CIA "false flag" scenario IMO...like a healthy Andrew Breitbart dropping dead of natural causes at 43 (who said he had bad video of Barry)...and I'll stop now with my other theories.

This was really written?

[lostfan]

Do you remember the North Hollywood shootout? 2 men in body armor held police at bay for nearly an hour while firing weapons. They had no armor over their face, and were being shot at by dozens of police. It took an hour for police to actually hit them in a place that could wound them around their armor. Why? Because "Aim for the head" under ideal circumstances isn't easy, you aim center of mass for a reason, you're less likely to miss, the head is a small target compared to center of mass. Now, even assume ideal circumstances, except you are under fire yourself. Thus, you don't have time to stand in front of the shooter and take aim, if you try to do that you die. You have to get off a shot quickly. Now, assume that the responder doesn't have the training of a police officer to get off a shot quickly. Now the scenario is even worse.

 

Then, add in any other situation. Like a cramped hallway, or an explosive device, crowds of people screaming and trying to take cover or get away, in this case tear gas and darkness. What you just described is a hollywood scene, it isn't real life.

Head shots are difficult in Call of Duty. In real life, that goes x10.