Shooting in CO at Batman premiere

[caulfield12]

Yeah, it's more like something you'd see in RAINBOX SIX Tom Clancy novels or "Act of Valor," the movie that's basically an advertisement for the Navy SEALs.

 

In real life, even with Rangers and SEALS, you can have situations like what happened in Somalia/Black Hawk Down.

Edited July 23, 2012 by caulfield12

[greg775]

I'm not going to argue about whether you could kill a few (2-3, by definition) and the case wouldn't become so famous.

 

The fact of the matter is that no death penalty trial ever is over in just one day...because then the defense provided would probably be considered incompetent and the case would likely to be retried or appealed over and over again. That's why there are myriad organizations and a network of lawyers out there who exist to provide pro bono work in these situations, like the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, AL. They specialized in this...a one day trial could never occur.

 

As far as wanting to live in a country with no rights for criminals, move to Thailand, Singapore or China and commit a drug crime.

 

By definition, to commit an act like that, it has to be an act of insanity in a sense, even if planned out with malice and forethought.

 

Greg, as far as your last question goes...about why God permits evil to exist in the world, it's the oldest question in the book. Many will use events like this as their reason for not believing in God. Or perhaps they feel that God doesn't exist so it's not such a harsh penalty to let the victim off easily by silent injecting him with potassium chloride and shutting down his heart. Would you feel there was justice and peace for the families at the end of that standoff had he just shot himself in head? Then, all the victims' families would spend the rest of their lives wondering why he did it. That still might happen. But the majority of the time, executing someone doesn't ever bring peace or closure because you can never bring that family member back. There are many Christians who believe that no matter what a person has done, it's not their place to judge or condemn another human being, that only God can do that. There are many passages in the New Testament...."let he who is without sin cast the first stone, judge not least ye be judged, etc." That question always gets thrown out there..."what would Jesus do?" Would Jesus forgive the shooter or condemn him to death? Well, of course, that's where you have the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" avenging God of the Old Testament. Yet they co-exist, do they not, just as peoples' reactions to these events will always differ. Inevitably, someone will say to those who want him to have a life sentence without the possibility of parole..."if it was your family member who was one of the victims, would you still feel the same way? You wouldn't want revenge? You wouldn't want the satisfaction of watching him die in front of you?" Well, believe it or not there are just as many believers as non-believers who wouldn't feel any better about watching him die.

 

It's kind of like the idea that only through evil or bad things happening can we understand the nature of free will, grace and peace or forgiveness. Without bad things happening, how could we ever learn to appreciate good? Wouldn't life be pretty dull if God created the world and programmed us like robots to carry out his will and never to sin? Would that be pleasing? At least, that's the Christian perspective on it.

 

Nice post. As far as my religious question to you that you answered. Without bad things happening how could we ever learn to appreciate good? That's true and that's fine, but the people God allows bad things to happen to ... why them? I mean the 6 year old is gone. No life to speak of. Taken away. Her mother wanted to be a doctor, boom, she is now paralyzed even if she lives. Now why did God choose those 2 to die and/or have life ruined? It's very troubling to think it's only so we can appreciate good.

 

 

Exactly. I went to the movie on Friday night, brought my gun, and sat right by the entrance. Not that I thought anything would happen, but you can't let things like this change the way you live.

Wow. You brought a gun and didn't get searched?

 

I think movie studies understand that this sort of event makes the home theater option much more enticing.

Yeah, when I think of the fairly small theatres at these big cinemaplexes, it's scary to think of a gunman in there. I don't know how he didn't kill a lot more people.

 

[GoodAsGould]

Nice post. As far as my religious question to you that you answered. Without bad things happening how could we ever learn to appreciate good? That's true and that's fine, but the people God allows bad things to happen to ... why them? I mean the 6 year old is gone. No life to speak of. Taken away. Her mother wanted to be a doctor, boom, she is now paralyzed even if she lives. Now why did God choose those 2 to die and/or have life ruined? It's very troubling to think it's only so we can appreciate good.

 

 

 

Wow. You brought a gun and didn't get searched?

 

 

Yeah, when I think of the fairly small theatres at these big cinemaplexes, it's scary to think of a gunman in there. I don't know how he didn't kill a lot more people.

 

Way I look at it God doesn't allow or disallow things to happen, they just do. But if you wanted some crazy theory with god all powerful has some master plan maybe that kid grows up to be a serial rapist/killer and that lady ends up being a corrupt doctor.... rather than thinking craziness like that I just assume there isn't some big plan god takes a hands off approach and the reward/punishment comes after life moreso than during it.

[Jake]

There is no bad, just the absence of good. But is that bad?

 

A philosophical argument can now become a semantic one - go.

[Quin]

This trial will be a show trial, much like the Sandusky one.

[Wanne]

Do you remember the North Hollywood shootout? 2 men in body armor held police at bay for nearly an hour while firing weapons. They had no armor over their face, and were being shot at by dozens of police. It took an hour for police to actually hit them in a place that could wound them around their armor. Why? Because "Aim for the head" under ideal circumstances isn't easy, you aim center of mass for a reason, you're less likely to miss, the head is a small target compared to center of mass. Now, even assume ideal circumstances, except you are under fire yourself. Thus, you don't have time to stand in front of the shooter and take aim, if you try to do that you die. You have to get off a shot quickly. Now, assume that the responder doesn't have the training of a police officer to get off a shot quickly. Now the scenario is even worse.

 

Then, add in any other situation. Like a cramped hallway, or an explosive device, crowds of people screaming and trying to take cover or get away, in this case tear gas and darkness. What you just described is a hollywood scene, it isn't real life.

 

Firing from probably 50-60+ yards away at moving targets with 9mm and 38's (standard at that time) obviously wouldn't do much. You pop a novice from 15 yards away with a 9, .40 or .45 will definitely knock you for a loop...kevlar and all. All I'm saying is once he gets popped...he's reeling. Kevlar doesn't make people Iron Man. Bullet velocity at close distance is a matter of physics. Not disputing your theory/point or anything. I'm sure it was complete chaos.

 

 

This was really written?

 

Yup...cause that's how I roll.

[caulfield12]

Nice post. As far as my religious question to you that you answered. Without bad things happening how could we ever learn to appreciate good? That's true and that's fine, but the people God allows bad things to happen to ... why them? I mean the 6 year old is gone. No life to speak of. Taken away. Her mother wanted to be a doctor, boom, she is now paralyzed even if she lives. Now why did God choose those 2 to die and/or have life ruined? It's very troubling to think it's only so we can appreciate good.

 

 

 

Wow. You brought a gun and didn't get searched?

 

 

Yeah, when I think of the fairly small theatres at these big cinemaplexes, it's scary to think of a gunman in there. I don't know how he didn't kill a lot more people.

 

Got "lucky" here when one of the automatic weapons that fire 100 rounds per minute jammed...otherwise, it would have been more like the McDonald's Massacre in San Ysidro way back when.

 

And nobody going into the apartment building too hastily...could have easily blown the whole thing apart.

 

Guess he makes his first appearance in a courtroom this morning.

Edited July 23, 2012 by caulfield12

[Jordan4life_2007]

Pretty sure milk was kidding about bringing a gun to a movie. lol.

[caulfield12]

Well, it's pretty much assured they're going for the insanity plea based on his first courtroom appearance.

[greg775]

This trial will be a show trial, much like the Sandusky one.

This is what bothers me about our system.

This motherf***er is guilty; everybody knows it; it's not some mystery where in reality there is ANY DOUBT.

So we're gonna have a big stage show and his attorneys are gonna get famous in arguing what? Whether he gets off by reason of insanity.

Yes he's insane. He's also f***ing GUILTY.

I mean what are we gonna do in court? Say this punk didn't do it? No. We're gonna waste months on looking for technicalities to prove he's insane? Pisses me off.

 

Well, it's pretty much assured they're going for the insanity plea based on his first courtroom appearance.

So he'll get off? Spend the rest of his days in some hospital or what?

[Milkman delivers]

You normally bring a gun with to the movies?

 

I carry off duty when I feel like it might be necessary. It didn't seem like a big to-do to wear it to ease other people's minds a day after a tragic shooting.

[Milkman delivers]

Pretty sure milk was kidding about bringing a gun to a movie. lol.

 

No, but I probably should have clarified that I'm a cop first

[knightni]

I carry off duty when I feel like it might be necessary. It didn't seem like a big to-do to wear it to ease other people's minds a day after a tragic shooting.

Do you not realize that they could have Patriot Act-ed your ass for that?

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

Do you not realize that they could have Patriot Act-ed your ass for that?

 

I can carry pretty much wherever I want, especially in Illinois.

[NorthSideSox72]

Do you not realize that they could have Patriot Act-ed your ass for that?

What are you talking about?

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

No, but I probably should have clarified that I'm a cop first

 

Yes, that changes things a little. haha.

[knightni]

No, but I probably should have clarified that I'm a cop first

Oh okay. People would have still freaked out if they had seen the weapon, though.

[Milkman delivers]

Oh okay. People would have still freaked out if they had seen the weapon, though.

 

I had the badge showing prominently and made sure the gun was invisible as possible. I'm not an idiot haha.

[StrangeSox]

No, but I probably should have clarified that I'm a cop first

 

did not know this

[kitekrazy]

I think I need to speak to a minister about why evil like this happens.

 

Your answers are in Genesis and Revelation. After the "fall of man" sin and death entered the world. The story of Cain and Abel was the first murder. Sodom and Gomorrah was listed as "sin so grievous" that only the story of Lot is recorded. In Revelation there is prophecy of evil becoming greater. Evil has always existed.

 

The problem with secularism is it doesn't believe evil exists and when it does, they look for excuses that makes the individual less accountable. It has a belief that poverty=immorality. (in many cases true) We are shocked that such crimes like these are not done by "ghetto" people. As secularism becomes popular acts like this happen. Worse acts like this have been committed before in political systems where the foundation is secularism.

 

Our current culture treats stress as something bad. Kids going into the public education system since the 80's have become coddled compared to those in the 70's. You got yelled at by the teacher for a bad grade and then got it at home. If you got whacked by the teacher you prayed that info didn't get home. If you were bullied you handled it on your own as much as possible. If you lost, you didn't get a trophy. If you were bad at something, you wanted to improve because quitting wasn't always the option. The world is not fair and there is no political system that can be implemented to change that. People tend to snap more because they've been coddled and never had to deal with any stress.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Not to make light of the situation, but why was a 6 year old at a midnight showing of a PG-13 film?

 

Just walk into a Super Wal-Mart or 24 hr grocery and you would not find this unusual. That's the new generation of parents. So when a kid is sleeping through the school day, the excuse is school must be boring instead of lack of sleep. Maybe Tony Dungy was right when he said nothing good happens after midnight.

Edited July 23, 2012 by kitekrazy

[CrimsonWeltall]

Your answers are in Genesis and Revelation. After the "fall of man" sin and death entered the world. The story of Cain and Abel was the first murder. Sodom and Gomorrah was listed as "sin so grievous" that only the story of Lot is recorded. In Revelation there is prophecy of evil becoming greater. Evil has always existed.

 

I'm pretty sure greg was looking for an answer to the Problem of Evil, not for a mythological origin story for sin.

[kitekrazy]

Head shots are difficult in Call of Duty. In real life, that goes x10.

 

Unless you are one of those hackers that play online. They can kill you with a pistol even if you are behind a foot of concrete.

 

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Your answers are in Genesis and Revelation. After the "fall of man" sin and death entered the world. The story of Cain and Abel was the first murder. Sodom and Gomorrah was listed as "sin so grievous" that only the story of Lot is recorded. In Revelation there is prophecy of evil becoming greater. Evil has always existed.

 

The problem with secularism is it doesn't believe evil exists and when it does, they look for excuses that makes the individual less accountable. It has a belief that poverty=immorality. (in many cases true) We are shocked that such crimes like these are not done by "ghetto" people. As secularism becomes popular acts like this happen. Worse acts like this have been committed before in political systems where the foundation is secularism.

 

Our current culture treats stress as something bad. Kids going into the public education system since the 80's have become coddled compared to those in the 70's. You got yelled at by the teacher for a bad grade and then got it at home. If you got whacked by the teacher you prayed that info didn't get home. If you were bullied you handled it on your own as much as possible. If you lost, you didn't get a trophy. If you were bad at something, you wanted to improve because quitting wasn't always the option. The world is not fair and there is no political system that can be implemented to change that. People tend to snap more because they've been coddled and never had to deal with any stress.

This was really written?

 

[greg775]

I had the badge showing prominently and made sure the gun was invisible as possible. I'm not an idiot haha.

No, but I probably should have clarified that I'm a cop first

 

As a policeman, why do you think the gunman wasn't shot and killed by the cops in the parking lot? Was the guy standing against his car? I'd think any one sign of resistance by the guy or his moving his hands to detonate a bomb or something would have resulted in the guy getting blown away. I wish he'd have been killed on the spot.

 

Our current culture treats stress as something bad. Kids going into the public education system since the 80's have become coddled compared to those in the 70's. You got yelled at by the teacher for a bad grade and then got it at home. If you got whacked by the teacher you prayed that info didn't get home. If you were bullied you handled it on your own as much as possible. If you lost, you didn't get a trophy. If you were bad at something, you wanted to improve because quitting wasn't always the option. The world is not fair and there is no political system that can be implemented to change that. People tend to snap more because they've been coddled and never had to deal with any stress.

 

I'm amazed at the "coddling" culture you mention.

The same parents who were not coddled and even got slugged by a brother at say, Brother Rice, are now the ones coddling their own kids and making sure they play for teams that get trophies for going 0-10 during the season.

The same parents who were able to roam the streets of Chicago unsupervised until dark and play baseball or hockey with their friends at the park all day, now have to be supervised entirely lest they get kidnapped or something.

I don't understand how a generation that was not coddled has been the biggest culprit in coddling kids the last 30 years or so.