Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Posted earlier in the year, and updated because Colon is a bum. I still believe he does not want to be here or pitch for us. The attraction of Colon is obvious, he brings a 98+ fastball and gets some CGs, but his record stinks for a multi million dollar wannabe, and his unwillingness to play the entire game he pitches is very apparent. The White Sox would improve without Colon, it would be a classic case of addition by subtraction. Trade the 'Tub of Goo'. If the White Sox pay this phony $12 million or more to stay here next year, they're nuts. This guy just doesn't show up unless he's in the mood. Right now as it stands Loaiza, a minimum wage pitcher is our 'Ace', and Jon Garland is our #3, with Buehrle as our #2. I'd rather have Danny Wright than this pouting pig. This 'tub of goo' is a clubhouse 'problem', and now can't pitch. Get rid of him as soon as possible, we'll be better off without him, and don't be afraid to trade him within our league or division, we always could beat this phony. ================== On May 11th I wrote and quoted Colon from the Sun-Times, then followed up with the column from the 15th. (May 11th) So far he only 'turns it up' after he sees if his teammates will or not. He gave up 3 runs early, again, and didn't bear down until he saw the offense come back. After the game he said; "I felt strong right from the beginning,'' Colon said. "But when I saw the ballclub come back and tie the game, it was time to show who I am." ------------------- Any chance you could show 'who you are' before the team gets behind? Maybe lead a little? This is not something new for Colon. ============== From the Sun-Times; Sox want early focus from Colon May 15, 2003 The message the White Sox are trying to relay to Bartolo Colon is to consider the first inning as crunch time. Colon, who will start today against the Baltimore Orioles, has a tendency not to get into a groove until the middle innings, something the light-hitting Sox can't afford. "He is a guy who it seems like when we score or he is needed, he really steps up,'' manager Jerry Manuel said. "I think he likes that role. He's the guy that has that kind of stuff to rise to the occasion. We're going to need him every game the rest of the way.'' Manuel is confident the Colon who won 20 games last year is starting to emerge in a Sox uniform. Colon (3-3, 4.23 ERA) pitched into the ninth inning in his last start over the weekend at Seattle, giving up three runs on six hits in the team's only victory of the series. It snapped a three-start losing streak. "He's got no reason to say 'Hey, you don't need me now,''' Manuel said. "We need him every game, every out.'' Manuel blamed Mark Buehrle's poor outing at Seattle on the feeble offense, saying it caused Buehrle to be too precise with his pitches. Manuel will be looking for early runs tonight against the Orioles, and he hopes Colon's protective instincts take over. "We've tried a number of things to get a runner to second and score first and take pressure off our pitchers, but it just hasn't quite worked out offensively,'' Manuel said. Doug Padilla :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 i take it you were not impressed with Colon's performance today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 i take it you were not impressed with Colon's performance today? I haven't been impressed with his performance all year. Whoever winds up paying this 'tub o' goo' over $12 million should have their head examined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I was excited when we signed him - was scratching my head about him by his game two - and long ago felt that what it was said that he was, he isn't plus the little "aloof king" in the locker room stories did not impress me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I haven't been impressed with his performance all year. Whoever winds up paying this 'tub o' goo' over $12 million should have their head examined. Man than I guess when every team in baseball goes after him in the off-season, they should go to the hospital as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I haven't been impressed with his performance all year. Whoever winds up paying this 'tub o' goo' over $12 million should have their head examined. He'll probably be a 20 game winner again when he signs that contract though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 He'll probably be a 20 game winner again when he signs that contract though Yes, probably, for everyone but us. That would make for my very first truly 'hated' ballplayer. Not the cmpetitive hate, but the truly despicable kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2003 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 To tell u the truth I don't wanna see 1 player from this team back next year. I've never been so dissapointed with a White Sox team in my life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 To tell u the truth I don't wanna see 1 player from this team back next year. I've never been so dissapointed with a White Sox team in my life... That is ridiculous!!! There are some (like Carlos, Maggs, and Loaiza) who have had impressive seasons. The problem is that they haven't COLLECTIVELY come together as a team very much this season. But to say that you don't want ANYONE on this team here next year is way off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2003 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 That is ridiculous!!! There are some (like Carlos, Maggs, and Loaiza) who have had impressive seasons. The problem is that they haven't COLLECTIVELY come together as a team very much this season. But to say that you don't want ANYONE on this team here next year is way off base. I don't care who's had a great season and what not. Every player on this roster is fair game. I wouldn't shed a tear to see anybody on this team let go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySoxFan Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I don't care who's had a great season and what not. Every player on this roster is fair game. I wouldn't shed a tear to see anybody on this team let go... ordonez. you wouldn't mind seeing him go? cant agree with you there. c-lee. i would hate to see him go.... even though he can be frustrating. paulie... i could make a case either way. now frank.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elcaballo45 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 You have to be kidding me... what has Carlos, Mags, and Ordonez done to make you not shed a tear that their gone. How in gods name is it their fault that this team has no heart, when they are essentially the reason why we're still over .500. OH, and if Carlos isnt here next year, then whats the point of watching the Sox anyway! Go Sox GOD DAMMIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I don't care who's had a great season and what not. Every player on this roster is fair game. I wouldn't shed a tear to see anybody on this team let go... I think this is just a case of somebody letting emotions get the best of them. Clearly some of these players are busting their ass. It's just that the vast majority of them are being lazy. Accountability is the main problem here. I don't think JM holds his players accountable, much like Brian Sutter. It's a shame that guys like Carlos and Maggs have to put up with this... On a positive note, there aren't many more road games after this...Just a couple more road trips that are week-long, while there's 1 that just a few games. They DO play much better at home. There's ALWAYS hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keaddy Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Amazing..............when Frank is quoted by the same paper it's always "he's misunderstood" or "misquoted",we get lectured on how not to be led around by the media.When the media supports this authors argument-it get's quoted as fact.Pure drivel."Tub of Goo"?Then so is David Wells,Wilbur Wood,Luis Tiant etc.Colon obviously,has not met expectations and is not worth what he'll probably command on the open market anyways.Drop him from the team?Yeah-there's some unbiased thinking and a clear solution.I'm sure we can run a parade of minor leaguers to fill his spot,as soon as the parade stops for a 5th starter. Never mind that we're in a pennant race. what an authority................... K-Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Well, Colon is doing what he did last year. He won 10 games in the AL last year, he's gonna be about there again this year. There's no one on this team that should be regarded as untouchable for the right deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Amazing..............when Frank is quoted by the same paper it's always "he's misunderstood" or "misquoted",we get lectured on how not to be led around by the media.When the media supports this authors argument-it get's quoted as fact.Pure drivel."Tub of Goo"?Then so is David Wells,Wilbur Wood,Luis Tiant etc.Colon obviously,has not met expectations and is not worth what he'll probably command on the open market anyways.Drop him from the team?Yeah-there's some unbiased thinking and a clear solution.I'm sure we can run a parade of minor leaguers to fill his spot,as soon as the parade stops for a 5th starter. Never mind that we're in a pennant race. what an authority................... K-Y Thomas has made an effort for the White Sox, Colon has not. Still cheering those who do nothing, rather than those who make an effort, I see. As is always the case I suggest you read the quotes, not the reporter's slant, just as I've suggested in the past. With Colon pitching as he has all we need is a AA pitcher who can get a .500 rcord and it would be an improvement. Your 'tub o' goo's' record here is a losing one. It doesn't surprise me, as an 'authority', that you'd identify with the loser. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 To tell u the truth I don't wanna see 1 player from this team back next year. I've never been so dissapointed with a White Sox team in my life... Thomas, Marte and Lee are the only ones who I want anymore of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Posted earlier in the year, and updated because Colon is a bum. I still believe he does not want to be here or pitch for us. The attraction of Colon is obvious, he brings a 98+ fastball and gets some CGs, but his record stinks for a multi million dollar wannabe, and his unwillingness to play the entire game he pitches is very apparent. The White Sox would improve without Colon, it would be a classic case of addition by subtraction. Trade the 'Tub of Goo'. If the White Sox pay this phony $12 million or more to stay here next year, they're nuts. This guy just doesn't show up unless he's in the mood. Right now as it stands Loaiza, a minimum wage pitcher is our 'Ace', and Jon Garland is our #3, with Buehrle as our #2. I'd rather have Danny Wright than this pouting pig. This 'tub of goo' is a clubhouse 'problem', and now can't pitch. Get rid of him as soon as possible, we'll be better off without him, and don't be afraid to trade him within our league or division, we always could beat this phony. ================== On May 11th I wrote and quoted Colon from the Sun-Times, then followed up with the column from the 15th. (May 11th) So far he only 'turns it up' after he sees if his teammates will or not. He gave up 3 runs early, again, and didn't bear down until he saw the offense come back. After the game he said; "I felt strong right from the beginning,'' Colon said. "But when I saw the ballclub come back and tie the game, it was time to show who I am." ------------------- Any chance you could show 'who you are' before the team gets behind? Maybe lead a little? This is not something new for Colon. ============== From the Sun-Times; Sox want early focus from Colon May 15, 2003 The message the White Sox are trying to relay to Bartolo Colon is to consider the first inning as crunch time. Colon, who will start today against the Baltimore Orioles, has a tendency not to get into a groove until the middle innings, something the light-hitting Sox can't afford. "He is a guy who it seems like when we score or he is needed, he really steps up,'' manager Jerry Manuel said. "I think he likes that role. He's the guy that has that kind of stuff to rise to the occasion. We're going to need him every game the rest of the way.'' Manuel is confident the Colon who won 20 games last year is starting to emerge in a Sox uniform. Colon (3-3, 4.23 ERA) pitched into the ninth inning in his last start over the weekend at Seattle, giving up three runs on six hits in the team's only victory of the series. It snapped a three-start losing streak. "He's got no reason to say 'Hey, you don't need me now,''' Manuel said. "We need him every game, every out.'' Manuel blamed Mark Buehrle's poor outing at Seattle on the feeble offense, saying it caused Buehrle to be too precise with his pitches. Manuel will be looking for early runs tonight against the Orioles, and he hopes Colon's protective instincts take over. "We've tried a number of things to get a runner to second and score first and take pressure off our pitchers, but it just hasn't quite worked out offensively,'' Manuel said. Doug Padilla :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 As I was watching the game last night just knew that ncorgbl would have something to say negative about Bart and positive about Frank. Thank you for not disappointing. Bart is 10-11 with a 4.25 Buehrle is 10-12 with a 4.22 Bart has started one less game but has pitched 3 more innings so the rest of the stats should be comparable. Goo has given up 172 hits, Mark has given up 193 Goo has given up 85 ER to Mark's 83 Goo has coughed up 19 round trippers to Mark's 13 Goo has let 57 batter on by walks and HBP, Mark has 51 Goo has 138 strike outs to Mark's 91 So if we are tossing out Bart we also need to toss out Mark and looking at records this season and other stats we would keep E-Lo, Marte, and Wunsch and toss the rest. Sorry ncorgbl I can't see why Bart has your wrath and not others who are underperforming this season. And as far as attitude and getting along with teammates they seem to play some pretty solid defense around Goo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Sorry ncorgbl I can't see why Bart has your wrath and not others who are underperforming this season. And as far as attitude and getting along with teammates they seem to play some pretty solid defense around Goo. Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread. This Sox team may not win with Colon, but we CERTAINLY wouldn't win without him. He's a very vital part of this '03 team, and there are some people here that need to support him if they are true Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 As I was watching the game last night just knew that ncorgbl would have something to say negative about Bart and positive about Frank. Thank you for not disappointing. Bart is 10-11 with a 4.25 Buehrle is 10-12 with a 4.22 Bart has started one less game but has pitched 3 more innings so the rest of the stats should be comparable. Goo has given up 172 hits, Mark has given up 193 Goo has given up 85 ER to Mark's 83 Goo has coughed up 19 round trippers to Mark's 13 Goo has let 57 batter on by walks and HBP, Mark has 51 Goo has 138 strike outs to Mark's 91 So if we are tossing out Bart we also need to toss out Mark and looking at records this season and other stats we would keep E-Lo, Marte, and Wunsch and toss the rest. Sorry ncorgbl I can't see why Bart has your wrath and not others who are underperforming this season. And as far as attitude and getting along with teammates they seem to play some pretty solid defense around Goo. Hey, we aim to please! The difference to me between Buehrle and Goo is about $9 million next season, and about $6 million this year. Colon came here with a rep, and a $12+ million wannabe, and hasn't pitched up to that. Buehrle is looking for about 1/3 of that. I have no problem with a guy strugling, it happens in baseball, and probably defend those in slumps more than most. I'm not quick to jump on those, unless they are not making the effort. To me, Colon has made NO effort for us, the White Sox. Effort is important to my view of any player, and I don't think Colon wants to be here or play for us, and makes little effort. Sandy gave Colon a look last night as he left the game that makes me want to more about it. I won't speculate, but suggest we all look for something of Alomar's quotes if they come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 My enjoyment and judgement is on the field not at the accountants. Would we enjoy E-Lo's season less if he was making 12 mil? Player's contracts vary as to their relative worth to the team. A guy with a brand new contract, after a steller season may be paid too high while a star veteran who signed a long term deal a long time ago may be too low at the end of his contract. So who should care outside of the owners? Are you telling me you would like Bart if he was making the league minimum and disliking Mark if he was asking for $12 million? It sounds like it's the money not the performance. When the newspaper starts printing the standing based on salaries, I'll start caring. When we start giving bonus points in the standing for wins per $$, I'll start caring. Until then I'll judge by what happens between the white lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 My enjoyment and judgement is on the field not at the accountants. Would we enjoy E-Lo's season less if he was making 12 mil? Player's contracts vary as to their relative worth to the team. A guy with a brand new contract, after a steller season may be paid too high while a star veteran who signed a long term deal a long time ago may be too low at the end of his contract. So who should care outside of the owners? Are you telling me you would like Bart if he was making the league minimum and disliking Mark if he was asking for $12 million? It sounds like it's the money not the performance. When the newspaper starts printing the standing based on salaries, I'll start caring. When we start giving bonus points in the standing for wins per $$, I'll start caring. Until then I'll judge by what happens between the white lines. You brought up the comparison between Buehrle and Colon, and whether you like it or not, money is part of any comparison. However, I spent one or two sentences on the money, and much more on the 'effort', or lack thereof. That's performance, and what happens in between the lines. If you're impressed with Gooboy's effort and performance in between the lines, that's fine. I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I believe you are the one to bring up money as the big difference between Colon and Buehrle. To avoid scrolling your quote was: "The difference to me between Buehrle and Goo is about $9 million next season, and about $6 million this year. Colon came here with a rep, and a $12+ million wannabe, and hasn't pitched up to that. Buehrle is looking for about 1/3 of that." end quote Again I ask you, since their stats are about the same, would you reverse your opinion if Mark was asking for $12,000,000 and Colon was not? Your quote above leads me to believe you would and I could respect you for that. Last I saw, Mark hasn't signed and I'm certain if he had E-Lo type numbers this season and on his way to a 20 win season he would be asking for the dollars that Colon was asking for after his season. As does every employee, people look around and figure what others are getting paid and you want to make the same or more. Athletes are competitive and its one way they compete, by seeing who's got the bigger contract. You could knock a zero off every contract out there and the guys would be just as happy, as long as they are earning more than the next guy. No I am not happy with the effort from a few players on this team. I expected far more from our pitching staff this season. Botch, Mark, and Bart have all dissapointed big time. I also thought Frank would have had a better year so I'm a little disappointed at him. I'll toss Kong on that list and perhaps Crede but the Crede pick would be a bit unfair because of nothing to compare him to. Getting back to Colon, I believe he is one of the top two or three pitchers in our system and will be for the next 2-3 years if he decides to stay. I can't really judge his effort because I honestly do not remember watching too much of him before this season. I know some very laid back looking guys who are fierce competitors. We use to say they had ice water running through their veins, now we want our athletes more animated. Thank you for at least having a well formed opinion and sticking to it. As I recall, you started the Colon sucks bandwagon early in the season and pulled it out of the gate. I will also concede he has not produced the won-loss record that most fans expected so you are correct that he wasn't the second coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat46 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 The fact that Colon is 10-11 with a 4.25 ERA, and Buehrle is 10-12 with a 4.22 ERA right now, is disappionting compared to what most White Sox fans had hoped for from these two players. In the end if we can still win the World Series this year, it won't matter at all. Some fans don't believe we can do that. Only when we have been eliminated will I be convinced of it. In the face of how things have gone in the last two series, I can understand why there is reason not to have much faith in this team. If any of you can understand why I still do, then you are a step ahead of the pack in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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