Sox eager to move Floyd, other notes

[iamshack]

If the Brewers want Quintana as the centerpiece of a deal, I'll drive him to Milwaukee myself. That guy isn't going to last. His value can only go down from here.

Yeah, I don't get why you don't like him at all...he's so much resembles Mark it is incredible.

[SOXOBAMA]

I'd not trade Quintana for a rental..

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yeah, I don't get why you don't like him at all...he's so much resembles Mark it is incredible.

 

I just don't trust that this guy all the sudden flicked a switch and became a dominant pitcher. I don't think he will be trash, but I see him as a future #4 starter. A guy who can put up a sub-4 ERA, not a guy who has a 2.30 ERA.

 

I hope he is good, I really do, I just don't see this lasting.

Edited July 24, 2012 by JoeCoolMan24

[flavum]

There's no way they trade Quintana this season. Even if he's a one-year wonder, it's this year...and he's good.

Edited July 24, 2012 by flavum

[TitoMB345]

I just don't trust that this guy all the sudden flicked a switch and became a dominant pitcher. I don't think he will be trash, but I see him as a future #4 starter. A guy who puts up a sub-4 ERA, not a guy who has a 2.30 ERA.

 

I hope he is good, I really do, I just don't see this lasting.

I would die for a sub-4 ERA out of our #4.

Edited July 24, 2012 by TitoMB

[southsider2k5]

I just don't trust that this guy all the sudden flicked a switch and became a dominant pitcher. I don't think he will be trash, but I see him as a future #4 starter. A guy who puts up a sub-4 ERA, not a guy who has a 2.30 ERA.

 

I hope he is good, I really do, I just don't see this lasting.

 

A lefty who puts up an under 4 era is a #4 starter? In what era? The 60's?

[Chisoxfn]

FWIW, if they do want to acquire Greinke, I'd much rather it be using Floyd and then someone like Mitchell as opposed to using Viciedo/Quintana.

Completely agree. I can't fathom (pun intended) losing two cost controlled guys like Viciedo and Q for a couple months of Greinke (especially when you get no picks to show for it). The potential for disaster is excessive.

[TitoMB345]

A lefty who puts up an under 4 era is a #4 starter? In what era? The 60's?

This was my exact thought. If you're #4 gives you a sub-4, you are a WS contender year-in and year-out.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I would die for a sub-4 ERA out of our #4.

 

I omitted the word "can".

[ptatc]

With the mindset of them NOT taking his option next year, I woudn't mind them dealing Floyd in attempt to bolster a deal for Grienke. Yes, you may risk losing him in free agency next year, BUT having Grienke in the rotation along with Peavy, Quintana, and Sale THIS YEAR could be scary for any opposing team the rest of the way. Oh and Danks will likely come back at the end of August too.

 

I will worry about the future during the offseason

Another thing to remember is that both Quintana and Sale will most likely run out of gas this season and tire out. They will need a break. If Danks comes back he will be rested. But that means you will need to depend on Humber and Peavy and Floyd or Greinke more heavily.

[iamshack]

I just don't trust that this guy all the sudden flicked a switch and became a dominant pitcher. I don't think he will be trash, but I see him as a future #4 starter. A guy who can put up a sub-4 ERA, not a guy who has a 2.30 ERA.

 

I hope he is good, I really do, I just don't see this lasting.

Yeah, like Mark.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yeah, like Mark.

 

Yeah, because Mark Buehrle's grow on trees.....?

[iamshack]

Yeah, because Mark Buehrle's grow on trees.....?

No, thus the reason not to trade him.

 

You dispute the results he is getting right now...hard to argue with that. But what you said you think he can do, is very similar to what Mark did. Which was the comparison I made in the first place.

 

Let me ask you this: if there was actually going to be another pitcher like Mark, do you think you would be able to immediately recognize him as that, or do you think it would take a few years for skeptics to be convinced? The nature of the beast is that you're always going to have questions about a young guy who resembles Buehrle in terms of stuff and style.

[Soxfest]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago...deadline-072412

Love to see Gavin Floyd gone!

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

No, thus the reason not to trade him.

 

You dispute the results he is getting right now...hard to argue with that. But what you said you think he can do, is very similar to what Mark did. Which was the comparison I made in the first place.

 

Let me ask you this: if there was actually going to be another pitcher like Mark, do you think you would be able to immediately recognize him as that, or do you think it would take a few years for skeptics to be convinced? The nature of the beast is that you're always going to have questions about a young guy who resembles Buehrle in terms of stuff and style.

 

 

The chances of Quintana becoming another Mark Buehrle are heavily stacked against it. If there is a team out there who thinks Quintana is as good as he has been so far, then by all means, let them give us a package. It all just depends on how others view him, and if I am Kenny, I am gauging the market for him RIGHT NOW.

[southsider2k5]

No, thus the reason not to trade him.

 

You dispute the results he is getting right now...hard to argue with that. But what you said you think he can do, is very similar to what Mark did. Which was the comparison I made in the first place.

 

Let me ask you this: if there was actually going to be another pitcher like Mark, do you think you would be able to immediately recognize him as that, or do you think it would take a few years for skeptics to be convinced? The nature of the beast is that you're always going to have questions about a young guy who resembles Buehrle in terms of stuff and style.

 

I think his expectations are crazy. I think somewhere in the 4.50 to 5.00 era is much more realistic. Not bad for back of the rotation stuff, but if he can net us a #1 or #2, he should go. Remember last year people were saying they wouldn't trade Phil Humber when we were still in it.

[iamshack]

The chances of Quintana becoming another Mark Buehrle are heavily stacked against it. If there is a team out there who thinks Quintana is as good as he has been so far, then by all means, let them give us a package. It all just depends on how others view him, and if I am Kenny, I am gauging the market for him RIGHT NOW.

But so are the chances of any prospect becoming an all star caliber player, even after showing immediate success in the big leagues. That is part of the difficulty of dealing with prospects. But it is a risk you've got to take if you want good, cost-controlled young talent.

[iamshack]

I think his expectations are crazy. I think somewhere in the 4.50 to 5.00 era is much more realistic. Not bad for back of the rotation stuff, but if he can net us a #1 or #2, he should go. Remember last year people were saying they wouldn't trade Phil Humber when we were still in it.

He may not have great stuff, but how many guys with great stuff have we seen not put it together in this organization? His pitching acumen and stones are off the charts, IMO. Those two qualities, combined with his average stuff will make him a very solid #2 or #3 pitcher, IMHO.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

But so are the chances of any prospect becoming an all star caliber player, even after showing immediate success in the big leagues. That is part of the difficulty of dealing with prospects. But it is a risk you've got to take if you want good, cost-controlled young talent.

 

I'd take my chances with a top pitching prospect having a better career than Quintana.

[Chisoxfn]

I think his expectations are crazy. I think somewhere in the 4.50 to 5.00 era is much more realistic. Not bad for back of the rotation stuff, but if he can net us a #1 or #2, he should go. Remember last year people were saying they wouldn't trade Phil Humber when we were still in it.

But if Q is hot this year, replacing him with Greinke may not be a major upgrade. Next year they have nothing to show for him. If it is a marginal potential upgrade (compared to the production the squad has had in the current year) and the downside (e.g., Q turns into a solid innings eater with a 4 to 4.25 ERA) is major. You lose a cost controlled quality starter for a marginal upgrade.

 

Clearly stuff wise they are on different levels and I know who I'd take with a game on the line in the postseason, however, its hard to argue the results thus far this year. And given all you have with Greinke is this year, I just can't rationalize moving Q for him.

[caulfield12]

He may not have great stuff, but how many guys with great stuff have we seen not put it together in this organization? His pitching acumen and stones are off the charts, IMO. Those two qualities, combined with his average stuff will make him a very solid #2 or #3 pitcher, IMHO.

 

In the last 5-6 years, not many.

 

People always cite examples like Aardsma, MacDougal or Masset, but these were all pitchers who struggled to throw secondary pitches and they're relievers.

 

We can find a ton of examples in that 1998-2001 group...but not as many since.

 

I'm assuming you're not counting the likes of Poreda, Broadway and McCulloch, as none of them were highly touted, except for maybe Broadway, but he was clearly overdrafted based on his college results and signability and didn't do anything with the Mets and other teams.

 

You've got Hudson, Gio, Richard, maybe Harrell has probably done better than anyone expected with the Astros...but the only "failure" we have is Hudson and who's to know now how much of a failure that will turn out being. McCarthy brought Danks, etc.

 

 

 

Examples??

 

And I mean pitchers who were drafted in the first three-five rounds and expected to make it.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

He may not have great stuff, but how many guys with great stuff have we seen not put it together in this organization? His pitching acumen and stones are off the charts, IMO. Those two qualities, combined with his average stuff will make him a very solid #2 or #3 pitcher, IMHO.

Elite command of 5 pitches >>>> spotty command of mid-upper 90's heat + inconsistent if eye-popping breaking ball

 

and

 

Actual results on a major league field >>>>> perfect future world performance scenarios dreamed up by talent evaluators

 

The other GMs can keep their prospects because Quintana is here to stay, and rightfully so.

 

Thanks a lot, Cashman. Really appreciate it.

[caulfield12]

Elite command of 5 pitches >>>> spotty command of mid-upper 90's heat + inconsistent if eye-popping breaking ball

 

and

 

Actual results on a major league field >>>>> perfect future world performance scenarios dreamed up by talent evaluators

 

The other GMs can keep their prospects because Quintana is here to stay, and rightfully so.

 

Thanks a lot, Cashman. Really appreciate it.

 

Don't even need 5. But he has 3, and working on 4-5.

[iamshack]

In the last 5-6 years, not many.

 

People always cite examples like Aardsma, MacDougal or Masset, but these were all pitchers who struggled to throw secondary pitches and they're relievers.

 

We can find a ton of examples in that 1998-2001 group...but not as many since.

 

I'm assuming you're not counting the likes of Poreda, Broadway and McCulloch, as none of them were highly touted, except for maybe Broadway, but he was clearly overdrafted based on his college results and signability and didn't do anything with the Mets and other teams.

 

You've got Hudson, Gio, Richard, maybe Harrell has probably done better than anyone expected with the Astros...but the only "failure" we have is Hudson and who's to know now how much of a failure that will turn out being. McCarthy brought Danks, etc.

 

 

 

Examples??

 

And I mean pitchers who were drafted in the first three-five rounds and expected to make it.

Javy Vazquez comes to mind...Floyd has had fairly average results, considering his ability...I'd really have to go back and dig a little deeper if you are only going to let me count starters in the last 5-6 years, but all things considered, I think Quintana is making up for his lack of devastating pitches with an intrinsic understanding of how to pitch and the stones to execute.

 

I'd take that over Gavin all day, every day.

[Marty34]

Here's why a rental is more attractive. As soon as they take on a pitcher for next year, Peavy knows he's not coming back. With the way his pitch counts have been built up that would be pretty crappy on the Sox part and wouldn't go over well with Peavy or in the clubhouse.