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Beckham - could this be it for him?


Greg Hibbard

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 12:44 PM)
No, I don't think it will be Escobar or Hudson either. I'm saying they'll trade him for another major league 2B if the right deal is available. If not, he stays the rest of the season, and they'll find a way to move him in the winter.

Why would we trade Beckham for another 2B of equivalent calibre? If not equivalent calibre, why would they give this player up for Beckham?

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QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 11:55 AM)
Why would we trade Beckham for another 2B of equivalent calibre? If not equivalent calibre, why would they give this player up for Beckham?

 

Package deal, not one-for-one. That should have gone without saying.

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I just don't think that we're going to find a better option for 2b in 2012.

 

In 2013, it's unacceptable not to explore options to improve what has become a sub-standard amount of production from that position.

 

Given that he topped out at .265 avg with a .750 OPS at the 2hole, it's clear that moving him wouldn't add enough to mess with it.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 12:39 PM)
As much as I complain about Becks, his defense is incredibly valuable and he is in the back of the order. I just wish he'd get his head on straight and at least improve his approach at the plate. He swings at some awful crap and really has a problem staying closed. Really really love his defense though and I see significant value in the fact that he's cost controlled and heady in the field (and on the paths).

 

This. His approach has been terrible, but he's hitting low in the order and his defense is tremendous. For the defense alone, you at least ride it out the rest of this year and then revisit his role again after the season. Even then, I'm not sure you get rid of him.

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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 10:20 AM)
I'm not trying to be drastic, but after the GIDP last night (that could have been a real momentum shifter back to the Twins), I revisited his stats.

 

I've always been a fan/apologist, but it seems that Beckham has really been sinking recently, and sinking badly, AGAIN.

 

Let me be clear - I don't recommend taking him out of the lineup - I think we live with him for the rest of this year. One hole in the lineup like this is is not going to kill us. However, I see no signs he'll finish any better than a .240/.300/.400/.700 hitter, and that's just not good enough.

 

For his career - four now severely subpar splits of .245/.311/.380/.691.

He's hitting as bad as he was in April in July - and July's almost over.

Since the beginning of the 2010 season, his OPS is around .660.

 

Can we live with this for his defense? I think at this point, we're pretty damned sure what we're getting. Slightly above AAAA offensive skill and a great glove. Average speed. Not enough power. Not enough plate discipline. Not enough of an eye. Not quite enough of anything else, really.

 

I feel badly, but I think we're watching the end of his career these next two months...

 

not a chance his career is over after this season unless he gets injured. it's possible he may lose his starting spot but at the very least he will stick around MLB as a utility IF for quite some time if his glove remains solid

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 01:00 PM)
Package deal, not one-for-one. That should have gone without saying.

I just don't understand what sort of package you're referring to. Are you thinking that Beckham has value as a piece of an upgrade to the rotation or something? That I could see, but we're not gonna get a 2b back if we do that, and we will be stuck with Hudson or Escobar like you said you didn't want.

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Two of our top 10 prospects are middle infielders and both are currently at AA. Saladino and Sanchez each probably need another full season in the minors before they're ready though. I really think one of these guys will end up being our starting 2B in 2014.

 

The real question is what do we do for 2013? If we can keep the rest our offense in tact, I'm cool with giving Beckham one last shot. If we lose Youkilis or AJ, then it might be hard to risk his bat in the lineup.

Edited by Chicago White Sox
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QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 12:18 PM)
I just don't understand what sort of package you're referring to. Are you thinking that Beckham has value as a piece of an upgrade to the rotation or something? That I could see, but we're not gonna get a 2b back if we do that, and we will be stuck with Hudson or Escobar like you said you didn't want.

 

He's probably not getting traded before the deadline.

 

I'm just saying that if a deal called for Beckham, they wouldn't hesitate moving him like they would have 2-3 years ago.

 

Say the Diamondbacks and Sox got together on something bigger, and Beckham and Aaron Hill were part of it? Something like that. It probably won't happen, but that's what I'm talking about.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 12:36 PM)
He's probably not getting traded before the deadline.

 

I'm just saying that if a deal called for Beckham, they wouldn't hesitate moving him like they would have 2-3 years ago.

 

Say the Diamondbacks and Sox got together on something bigger, and Beckham and Aaron Hill were part of it? Something like that. It probably won't happen, but that's what I'm talking about.

 

Last I heard the Dbacks were pretty happy with Hill. What could the Sox offer that would make them change their mind?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 12:43 PM)
Last I heard the Dbacks were pretty happy with Hill. What could the Sox offer that would make them change their mind?

 

No clue. If it were to happen, it would be something unexpected and probably have tons of parts. Just giving an example of the type of trade Beckham could go in before the deadline.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 05:38 PM)
Batting 2nd:

44 games

.265/.315/.414

 

Batting 9th:

43 games

.182/.250/.280

That big difference is Beckham's only hope. His supporters can always say he thrives in the 2 hole.

 

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 05:39 PM)
As much as I complain about Becks, his defense is incredibly valuable and he is in the back of the order. I just wish he'd get his head on straight and at least improve his approach at the plate. He swings at some awful crap and really has a problem staying closed. Really really love his defense though and I see significant value in the fact that he's cost controlled and heady in the field (and on the paths).

Great defensive player. Will he ever learn how to hit? He's just a horrible hitter. Somehow his hot streaks are so hot (but so rare) that they give him a batting average between .230 and .250 most of the season.

 

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 06:17 PM)
not a chance his career is over after this season unless he gets injured. it's possible he may lose his starting spot but at the very least he will stick around MLB as a utility IF for quite some time if his glove remains solid

He still has a ways to go before experiencing what Lillibridge is right now. Lilly is getting flipped from team to team as his hourglass is close to running out.

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People want to keep Beckham around for his glove, but 2B is not a crucial defensive position. If we're talking about SS or C, then yeah, you can live with a .650 to .700 OPS type in the starting lineup.

 

There is no backup plan for Beckham, of course. It's the same story at 3B with Morel, unless they shell out the cash for Youkilis, which is unlikely.

 

Kenny has no idea what he's doing when it comes to bringing in offensive personnel. He's the type of guy that will make OF a priority in the first round, and then proceed to take a pass on Mike Trout. I hope that people have figured out why he selected Mitchell. The Hawkins pick might have turned on some light bulbs. It's probably just better to cover your ears and sing nursery rhymes.

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QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 03:06 PM)
Kenny has no idea what he's doing when it comes to bringing in offensive personnel.

 

That's an oversimplification. He's had some hits and some misses. Quentin, Ramirez, Podsednik, Iguchi, Pierzynski were all excellent acquisitions by Williams.

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People want to keep Beckham around for his glove, but 2B is not a crucial defensive position.

 

I disagree with this statement. In my book anything up the middle is a crucial defensive position and I believe that Beckhams presence has saved many runs and pitchers arms this season. Not only in range, but the ability to turn a doubleplay.

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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 08:12 PM)
That's an oversimplification. He's had some hits and some misses. Quentin, Ramirez, Podsednik, Iguchi, Pierzynski were all excellent acquisitions by Williams.

 

Don't you dare praise Podsednik on this board. That is not allowed by all his haters/mockers (greenish).

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 01:36 PM)
He's probably not getting traded before the deadline.

 

I'm just saying that if a deal called for Beckham, they wouldn't hesitate moving him like they would have 2-3 years ago.

 

Say the Diamondbacks and Sox got together on something bigger, and Beckham and Aaron Hill were part of it? Something like that. It probably won't happen, but that's what I'm talking about.

Gotcha, and agreed.

 

Yeah, I think something in the offseason is likely, but only if KW shores up the higher priorities first. Beckham is bad, but I think there will be bigger concerns so if he can't figure out a convenient replacement, I doubt KW presses the issue.

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 08:55 PM)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CH...201004070.shtml

 

That was the game where Beckham lost his confidence.

 

Bottom of the 9th, we had him bunt. He royally f***ed it up, never was the same.

 

Really it seemed like he had gotten going, and then they moved him back to the nine slot.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 08:56 PM)
Really it seemed like he had gotten going, and then they moved him back to the nine slot.

 

He's a big confidence guy.

 

The game from 2010 I put up, well, I remember him getting two solid hits. Then we had him bunt and I remember someone (either here or media) roasting Ozzie for "taking the bat out of his better hitters hand."

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 08:59 PM)
He's a big confidence guy.

 

The game from 2010 I put up, well, I remember him getting two solid hits. Then we had him bunt and I remember someone (either here or media) roasting Ozzie for "taking the bat out of his better hitters hand."

 

I remember that game. He had Beckham bunt twice, I think. He screwed up both times.

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