hammerhead johnson Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:03 PM) Way to keep moving the goalposts... First it was brought in, then it was drafted, then certain guys don't count. "Brought in" includes both free agents and draft picks, at least to my understanding. You're bringing both into your organization, are you not? Kenny has the financial means to bring in guys like Rios and Dunn, or resign Konerko. That's the only thing that's saving him. Theoretically, you should not be a GM if you can't draft even one all star caliber hitter in 10 years time. Edited July 26, 2012 by hammerhead johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:12 PM) "Brought in" includes both free agents and draft picks, at least to my understanding. You're bringing both into your organization, are you not? Kenny has the financial means to bring in guys like Rios and Dunn, or resign Konerko. That's the only thing that's saving him. Theoretically, you should not be a GM if you can't draft even one all star caliber hitter in 10 years time. Except the draft isn't the only way to bring players in to an organization. What Kenny has been successful at is taking those draft picks and players and turning them into All-Star hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Chris Young made an All-Star team!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:16 PM) Except the draft isn't the only way to bring players in to an organization. What Kenny has been successful at is taking those draft picks and players and turning them into All-Star hitters. Like who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:20 PM) Like who? Like our whole offense? Most of the line up is good hitters. They came from places other than the draft. the only guy on the 25 man roster that Kenny didn't bring in was Paul Konerko, but he sure has heck signed him to extensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 The worse part about Beckham sucking is that I bought his f***ing jersey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:16 PM) Except the draft isn't the only way to bring players in to an organization. What Kenny has been successful at is taking those draft picks and players and turning them into All-Star hitters. No point in arguing. Quentin was never good Alexei was never good Dye sucked Pods sucked Iguchi sucked Dayan's future is bleak De Aza sucks AJP is bad Bring in Trout-type players or you fail as a GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) No point in arguing. Quentin was never good Alexei was never good Dye sucked Pods sucked Iguchi sucked Dayan's future is bleak De Aza sucks AJP is bad Bring in Trout-type players or you fail as a GM. Thome was one-dimensional and only K'ed, walked or homered, lol. Sounds familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) Like who? Chris Carter Michael Morse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner10 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) No point in arguing. Quentin was never good Alexei was never good Dye sucked Pods sucked Iguchi sucked Dayan's future is bleak De Aza sucks AJP is bad Bring in Trout-type players or you fail as a GM. Quentin - still playing but crazy Alexei -Still playing defensive stud Dye- WS MVP Pods- Wheels for us thats what he needed to be Iguchi- BLOWS Dayan- 23 with alot of upside De Aza- A true corner outfielder and slumping AJP- Defensive liability but one of the most consistent hitters for the sox. Just dont understand how all those guys are that terrible. But what do I know. I think Gordo should probably be a gold glove winner. Hes the 9 hitter and probably our best defender along with Alexie who is terrible? Just kind of dumbfounded by this that is all. Not trying to attack you anyway just not really understanding every point you've made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 LOL. How is DeAza a true corner OFer? Those are sluggers like Dye, Quentin and Viciedo. The opposite is true, he's a decent CFer who puts up really nice numbers for that position/leadoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner10 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Since when are all corner outfielders power hitters? I didnt know that? Thanks still think he would be better suited for left if Rios was more comfortable in center. Put DV with his cannon in right and i think we would cover more ground out there but then again only power hitters play the corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner10 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:36 PM) Thome was one-dimensional and only K'ed, walked or homered, lol. Sounds familiar. This is very true though haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) Chris Carter Michael Morse I think KW is a decent GM, but that's pretty brutal if that's who Kenny is hanging is hat on offensively. BTW, did he draft Rowand? Speaking of which, KW has also been a phenomenal GM at selling high on players. The only player that truly hurts that I can think of that KW let get away is Gio Gonzalez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner10 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:37 PM) I think KW is a decent GM, but that's pretty brutal if that's who Kenny is hanging is hat on offensively. BTW, did he draft Rowand? Speaking of which, KW has also been a phenomenal GM at selling high on players. The only player that truly hurts that I can think of that KW let get away is Gio Gonzalez. Twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:37 PM) I think KW is a decent GM, but that's pretty brutal if that's who Kenny is hanging is hat on offensively. BTW, did he draft Rowand? Speaking of which, KW has also been a phenomenal GM at selling high on players. The only player that truly hurts that I can think of that KW let get away is Gio Gonzalez. Don't forget that season and a half of CY Hudson and that kid who hasn't had any success above A ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:16 PM) That all started with trying to fill a hole at 3rd. The inability of Josh Fields, over paying Teahan, makes me think the Sox should make every effort to sign Youk. God, it's been 3 years since we trade for him and people still can't spell Teahen right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Wagz @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:48 PM) Quentin - still playing but crazy Alexei -Still playing defensive stud Dye- WS MVP Pods- Wheels for us thats what he needed to be Iguchi- BLOWS Dayan- 23 with alot of upside De Aza- A true corner outfielder and slumping AJP- Defensive liability but one of the most consistent hitters for the sox. Just dont understand how all those guys are that terrible. But what do I know. I think Gordo should probably be a gold glove winner. Hes the 9 hitter and probably our best defender along with Alexie who is terrible? Just kind of dumbfounded by this that is all. Not trying to attack you anyway just not really understanding every point you've made. It was sarcasm poking fun at the stupid post that KW has never "brought in" a good hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 08:30 PM) Bring in Trout-type players or you fail as a GM. Uh, this is what a Top 20 list of K-Dub's offensive draft picks from 2001 to 2009 might look like (and no, he did not draft Michael Morse). Chris Young Gordon Beckham Brent Morel Jeremy Reed Brian Anderson Ryan Sweeney Chris Getz Chris Carter Aaron Cunningham Josh Fields Donny Lucy Brandon Allen Clinton King Robert Valido Jon Zeringue Jay Mattox Tyler Reves John Shelby Jared Mitchell Josh Phegley Trayce Thompson I've never heard of some of those guys - I mostly just included players who were drafted in the first 5 rounds. This is probably the worst offensive run of any GM in baseball, correct? Like I said before, he's getting by on payroll. Anybody can bring in a Dunn, Thome, Dye, Rios, etc if they have the financial backing. You seem like a pretty intelligent guy - it's shocking to me that you don't understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 By the way, Chris Young is gonna be 30 years old next year. His career average is .238, and his OPS is .750. That said, he is Kenny's best offensive draft pick. But keep thinking about how Pods led us to the World Series, though. That's a good diversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 08:26 PM) Uh, this is what a Top 20 list of K-Dub's offensive draft picks from 2001 to 2009 might look like (and no, he did not draft Michael Morse). Chris Young Gordon Beckham Brent Morel Jeremy Reed Brian Anderson Ryan Sweeney Chris Getz Chris Carter Aaron Cunningham Josh Fields Donny Lucy Brandon Allen Clinton King Robert Valido Jon Zeringue Jay Mattox Tyler Reves John Shelby Jared Mitchell Josh Phegley Trayce Thompson I've never heard of some of those guys - I mostly just included players who were drafted in the first 5 rounds. This is probably the worst offensive run of any GM in baseball, correct? Like I said before, he's getting by on payroll. Anybody can bring in a Dunn, Thome, Dye, Rios, etc if they have the financial backing. You seem like a pretty intelligent guy - it's shocking to me that you don't understand this. But you're missing 2/3rd's of the picture. Nobody gives a freakin' trophy for best farm system or best attendance. You're missing all the pitchers that have been acquired like Sale, Contreras, Garcia, Javy, Thornton (for Borchard), Loiaza (flipped for Jose), Floyd, Danks, McCarthy, Holmberg, Hudson, Richard, Jenks, Santos, Humber, Quintana ON and ON and ON. International free agents, they got Iguchi, Takatsu, Viciedo, Ramirez, etc. PITCHING IS MUCH MORE VALUABLE THAN POSITION PLAYERS, with the possible exceptions of SS, C and CF. Got AJ for nothing....DeAza for nothing....Alexei for virtually nothing (his original contract). Alex Rios for nothing. Got Quentin for Carter, who took 4 years to make a significant impact. K. Walker should be on the list, too. In the end, drafting position players is only 15-20% of what a GM does. KW has compensated in a multitude of other areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:26 PM) Uh, this is what a Top 20 list of K-Dub's offensive draft picks from 2001 to 2009 might look like (and no, he did not draft Michael Morse). Chris Young Gordon Beckham Brent Morel Jeremy Reed Brian Anderson Ryan Sweeney Chris Getz Chris Carter Aaron Cunningham Josh Fields Donny Lucy Brandon Allen Clinton King Robert Valido Jon Zeringue Jay Mattox Tyler Reves John Shelby Jared Mitchell Josh Phegley Trayce Thompson I've never heard of some of those guys - I mostly just included players who were drafted in the first 5 rounds. This is probably the worst offensive run of any GM in baseball, correct? Like I said before, he's getting by on payroll. Anybody can bring in a Dunn, Thome, Dye, Rios, etc if they have the financial backing. You seem like a pretty intelligent guy - it's shocking to me that you don't understand this. I counted 11 that made the show. Not bad. Not bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:26 PM) Uh, this is what a Top 20 list of K-Dub's offensive draft picks from 2001 to 2009 might look like (and no, he did not draft Michael Morse). Chris Young Gordon Beckham Brent Morel Jeremy Reed Brian Anderson Ryan Sweeney Chris Getz Chris Carter Aaron Cunningham Josh Fields Donny Lucy Brandon Allen Clinton King Robert Valido Jon Zeringue Jay Mattox Tyler Reves John Shelby Jared Mitchell Josh Phegley Trayce Thompson I've never heard of some of those guys - I mostly just included players who were drafted in the first 5 rounds. This is probably the worst offensive run of any GM in baseball, correct? Like I said before, he's getting by on payroll. Anybody can bring in a Dunn, Thome, Dye, Rios, etc if they have the financial backing. You seem like a pretty intelligent guy - it's shocking to me that you don't understand this. Bleh, thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting here. Troll city these days, I miss this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You can add Jordan Danks, Escobar, Veal, Omogrosso, Marinez, Heath, Axelrod, Santiago, Nathan Jones, Reed, Septimo, Molina, Hernandez, Castro, etc. Tyler Flowers, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:47 AM) But you're missing 2/3rd's of the picture. Nobody gives a freakin' trophy for best farm system or best attendance. You're missing all the pitchers that have been acquired like Sale, Contreras, Garcia, Javy, Thornton (for Borchard), Loiaza (flipped for Jose), Floyd, Danks, McCarthy, Holmberg, Hudson, Richard, Jenks, Santos, Humber, Quintana ON and ON and ON. International free agents, they got Iguchi, Takatsu, Viciedo, Ramirez, etc. PITCHING IS MUCH MORE VALUABLE THAN POSITION PLAYERS, with the possible exceptions of SS, C and CF. Got AJ for nothing....DeAza for nothing....Alexei for virtually nothing (his original contract). Alex Rios for nothing. Got Quentin for Carter, who took 4 years to make a significant impact. K. Walker should be on the list, too. In the end, drafting position players is only 15-20% of what a GM does. KW has compensated in a multitude of other areas. Nobody is talking about pitching in this thread, though. I have no beef with Kenny as far as that's concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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