caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:54 PM) Nobody is talking about pitching in this thread, though. I have no beef with Kenny as far as that's concerned. Who has done better with pitching? What team leads the majors in quality starts since 2003? It's easier to win with good pitching than it to build an offensive powerhouse and add pitching to go with it. Look the Royals for the last 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:51 AM) Bleh, thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting here. Troll city these days, I miss this site. Wait, now I'm a troll for pointing out that KW's best offensive draft pick in ten years time is a career .238 hitter? Is that the way of it? If you got nothing to counter with, then disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Considering KW's draft allotment, having 11 make the show isn't bad, especially considering only 1 was a top 10 pick. Next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:56 AM) Who has done better with pitching? What team leads the majors in quality starts since 2003? It's easier to win with good pitching than it to build an offensive powerhouse and add pitching to go with it. Look the Royals for the last 20 years. That's a different discussion, but it seems like you're disregarding the importance of offense here. Balance is what gets it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:58 AM) Considering KW's draft allotment, having 11 make the show isn't bad, especially considering only 1 was a top 10 pick. Next... You serious, man? Plenty of guys make it to the big leagues only to find out that they're scrubs. The point that you're making here is completely irrelevant. And as far as draft allotment is concerned, how many countless all star caliber hitters have been drafted outside of the 1st round? That's not a good excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It would be interesting to the the success rate of other GM's. Then, we'd have to take into account draft position. I suspect the "Kenny can't do anything right besides for continually lucking into great staffs who happen to pitch in a bandbox" crowd would be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 What's the point? We've been in the Top 5 in the AL for most of this season in runs scored. Now we're suddenly worried about offense and KW's position player picks over the last decade? HUH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:16 AM) What's the point? We've been in the Top 5 in the AL for most of this season in runs scored. Now we're suddenly worried about offense and KW's position player picks over the last decade? HUH? You don't see the bigger picture here? Money that we've dished out to guys like Dunn, Rios, etc could have been spent elsewhere, thereby making us a perennial World Series contender. That doesn't appeal to you? When have we ever been a legit WS contender during Kenny's reign? You see what I'm getting at now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I am perfectly fine with Beckham not hitting because his glove is outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:23 AM) I am perfectly fine with Beckham not hitting because his glove is outstanding. Right, at a position where you can find plenty of replacement level players that can do a comparable job on defense. Let's keep his horrible bat in the lineup, by all means. Boy oh boy, am I really losing faith in this fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) Beckham is going to be like many other former top prospects before him who couldn't perform well enough with his old team and then suddenly figures it out after a change of scenery. He is too talented, smart and confident to be a replacement-level player his entire career. It seems like a shame that he probably won't become the guy we all thought, but unfortunately it happens. Edited July 27, 2012 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:52 AM) Beckham is going to be like many other former top prospects before him who couldn't perform well enough with his old team and then suddenly figures it out after a change of scenery. He is too talented, smart and confident to be a replacement-level player his entire career. It seems like a shame that he probably won't become the guy we all thought, but unfortunately it happens. Happened with Kip Well as soon as he left the Sox. He looked like a world-beater for 2-3 seasons as the ace of the Pirates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 10:21 PM) You don't see the bigger picture here? Money that we've dished out to guys like Dunn, Rios, etc could have been spent elsewhere, thereby making us a perennial World Series contender. That doesn't appeal to you? When have we ever been a legit WS contender during Kenny's reign? You see what I'm getting at now? Oh I dunno - that one time we won the World Series? As for "perennial WS contender" - how many teams have done that over the past 20 years? 3 maximum? That have spent like crazy because they draw like crazy? Given our track record under Schueler, etc. I'll gladly take what Williams has done. There was a time this franchise went 24 years between playoff appearances. If Williams wins the division with the relatively drastic makeover this team has had (Ventura, Sale's transition to starter, Buehrle's departure), he should win Executive of the Year, period - especially considering the injuries. You really need a reality check here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:47 PM) But you're missing 2/3rd's of the picture. Nobody gives a freakin' trophy for best farm system or best attendance. You're missing all the pitchers that have been acquired like Sale, Contreras, Garcia, Javy, Thornton (for Borchard), Loiaza (flipped for Jose), Floyd, Danks, McCarthy, Holmberg, Hudson, Richard, Jenks, Santos, Humber, Quintana ON and ON and ON. International free agents, they got Iguchi, Takatsu, Viciedo, Ramirez, etc. PITCHING IS MUCH MORE VALUABLE THAN POSITION PLAYERS, with the possible exceptions of SS, C and CF. Got AJ for nothing....DeAza for nothing....Alexei for virtually nothing (his original contract). Alex Rios for nothing. Got Quentin for Carter, who took 4 years to make a significant impact. K. Walker should be on the list, too. In the end, drafting position players is only 15-20% of what a GM does. KW has compensated in a multitude of other areas. The thread should have ended there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 10:21 PM) You don't see the bigger picture here? Money that we've dished out to guys like Dunn, Rios, etc could have been spent elsewhere, thereby making us a perennial World Series contender. That doesn't appeal to you? When have we ever been a legit WS contender during Kenny's reign? You see what I'm getting at now? At what point last season would you have considered St. Louis legit WS contenders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_35 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 i'm sure it's already been said (didn't read through this thread), but Beckham is probably one of THE most frustrating players to watch. it seemed like he turned the corner when he was in the #2 spot before Youk arrived. there was a dramatic increase in his numbers, absolutely due to the fact the heart of the order was protecting him. as soon as Youk got here, Becks get put at the bottom of the order and he's just failed miserably once again. granted, he not in the lineup for his bat. so anything he does produce down at the bottom of the order is a bonus. but it's about time this kid starts producing in other ways or he's definitely gotta go. i know he's defense has been great this season, but is that enough these days to keep guys in the lineup? we've waited a pretty long time for this kid to turn the corner, but i don't really see it happening with his swing. until he decides to shorten it, he's never going to be a good offensive player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 08:00 PM) God, it's been 3 years since we trade for him and people still can't spell Teahen right? Who the f*** cares? I still can't spell Mark Buehrle's last name. I would be up a s*** creek if we had Sox/former Sox player spelling bee. Once again who the f*** cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 10:21 PM) You don't see the bigger picture here? Money that we've dished out to guys like Dunn, Rios, etc could have been spent elsewhere, thereby making us a perennial World Series contender. That doesn't appeal to you? When have we ever been a legit WS contender during Kenny's reign? You see what I'm getting at now? The experts had them winning the 2006 World Series in the preseason when they acquired Thome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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