Sox want Grienke "badly"

[Vote4Pedro]

This Greinke s*** is all a KW smokescreen. He's going to land a player like Garza or Shields who will be under team control for 2-3 years - not some 10 start rental he has to bid for that has already stated he hates pitching in the Cell and has a history of being a nutcase.

i agree with this, garza seems like a KW type of move, get him "injured" cheaper than he would have before hand and hope he comes back in a week or so fully healthy

[NorthSideSox72]

The requested package is too high in my opinion

I agree, from what I have heard MIL wants. That's why I said, if the other teams are walking away, maybe MIL blinks and comes down on it a bit. I think they are really making a mistake if they don't move him, and get nothing for him at end of season. Just getting, say, Floyd, Mitchell/Thompson and Jones/Santiago, is a lot better than nothing. Its also better than a comp pick.

 

I think things are going to get crazy around Sunday or so.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Wow that's all I can say. Go look at stats before you just say the guy is eh just okay. Zach Grienke has some of the best stuff in baseball. Period. If you can get a Cy young player during a playoff run you do. And a career year, what a joke, I have posted his stats plenty. Dempster can't dominate a game with his stuff he is a location pitcher. And im sorry I don't want to take a chance on a guy who more than likely would get lit up by the likes of Det, NYY, TX, LAA. And let's not forget Dempsters horrible injury proneness.

 

I'm sorry I just don't get how people can sit there and logically argue Zach Greinke is not one of the best pitchers in the game today. I guess all the scouts, writers, announcers, real baseball people that are around it day in day out are wrong. My bad ZG is a 28 year old lucky has been with his best years behind him. Forget his 122/28 K/BB average this year.

And disregard his problems, and how many teams in large markets wouldn't take him for a fraction of the price he will ultimately cost.

 

Steve Stone called him a small market pitcher. There are a lot of people who get paid a lot of money to make decisions in major league baseball who agree with him.

 

Its also for 10 starts. You don't decimate your team for years for 10 starts especially if the guy has some issues mentally.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Dick Allen

[WHarris1]

Wow that's all I can say. Go look at stats before you just say the guy is eh just okay. Zach Grienke has some of the best stuff in baseball. Period. If you can get a Cy young player during a playoff run you do. And a career year, what a joke, I have posted his stats plenty. Dempster can't dominate a game with his stuff he is a location pitcher. And im sorry I don't want to take a chance on a guy who more than likely would get lit up by the likes of Det, NYY, TX, LAA. And let's not forget Dempsters horrible injury proneness.

 

I'm sorry I just don't get how people can sit there and logically argue Zach Greinke is not one of the best pitchers in the game today. I guess all the scouts, writers, announcers, real baseball people that are around it day in day out are wrong. My bad ZG is a 28 year old lucky has been with his best years behind him. Forget his 122/28 K/BB average this year.

ERA+ by year (ERA)

 

2007 - 124 (3.69)

2008 - 125 (3.47)

2009 - 205 (2.16)

2010 - 100 (4.17)

2011 - 103 (3.83)

2012 - 120 3.44)

 

So actually yeah, the stats do say that was a career year.

Edited July 27, 2012 by WHarris1

[hogan873]

Greinke is the only difference maker on the market. Johnson and Garza are a level beneath, don't want either.

 

 

I'm with you Marty, Grienke or nothing

This is silly. So, don't try to improve the team if you can't get the "best" guy on the market? Come on. If KW can get Dempster, Johnson, Garza, or even a #4/#5 starter relatively cheap, that improves the team. Why have the philosophy of overpaying for the best or don't get anything?

[Frank_Thomas]

This Greinke s*** is all a KW smokescreen. He's going to land a player like Garza or Shields who will be under team control for 2-3 years - not some 10 start rental he has to bid for that has already stated he hates pitching in the Cell and has a history of being a nutcase.

 

So everyone is up in arms with giving up a package for ZG, lol what do you think the Cubs or Rays will want for guys under contract for longer than this year. It will be a hell of a lot more than for Grienke. And you guys are worried about what we give up to MIL, I'm sure you will all be cool watching the guys we give the Cubs help them out "for years to come." and let's not forget Garza is out, hurt till after the deadline. But were okay giving up good players for someone who is hurt.

[Dick Allen]

So everyone is up in arms with giving up a package for ZG, lol what do you think the Cubs or Rays will want for guys under contract for longer than this year. It will be a hell of a lot more than for Grienke. And you guys are worried about what we give up to MIL, I'm sure you will all be cool watching the guys we give the Cubs help them out "for years to come." and let's not forget Garza is out, hurt till after the deadline. But were okay giving up good players for someone who is hurt.

KW did it for Peavy. I don't think KW is on Garza, but if he was, he would have his medical staff look at the MRI and determine the problem. If its something that is days, that's one thing, if its something that is weeks, you can't make the deal.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Dick Allen

[hogan873]

So everyone is up in arms with giving up a package for ZG, lol what do you think the Cubs or Rays will want for guys under contract for longer than this year. It will be a hell of a lot more than for Grienke. And you guys are worried about what we give up to MIL, I'm sure you will all be cool watching the guys we give the Cubs help them out "for years to come." and let's not forget Garza is out, hurt till after the deadline. But were okay giving up good players for someone who is hurt.

I'm not sure the Sox (or other teams for that matter) would have to give up nearly what the Brewers are asking if they were to go after a smaller target that is under team control for a year or so.

Edited July 27, 2012 by pittshoganerkoff

[RockRaines]

I was told Dempster to the Sox was a hard "No" but i guess anything can happen.

[Frank_Thomas]

And disregard his problems, and how many teams in large markets wouldn't take him for a fraction of the price he will ultimately cost.

 

Steve Stone called him a small market pitcher. There are a lot of people who get paid a lot of money to make decisions in major league baseball who agree with him.

 

Its also for 10 starts. You don't decimate your team for years for 10 starts especially if the guy has some issues mentally.

 

Give me a break, MIL has probably had better attendance then us since he's been a Brewer and was pitching night in night out in sellout crowds during their playoffs run. And we are not some crazy big market team. Even Youk said the media leaves you alone unless you're the player of yhegame or something. Knit picking to knit pick. And finally clearly plenty of "big" market teams are interested, look at the rumored teams interested. And you aren't scouting a guy if your not interested.

[WHarris1]

After looking at those ERA+/ERA numbers over his last 5.5 seasons it's actually striking how big of an outlier than 09 year was

[Frank_Thomas]

KW did it for Peavy.

 

Right and Garza/Sheilds aren't the same pitcher Peavy is. Again a guy that has won a Cy young comes with a pedigree. When it comes to a pitcher like Peavy or ZG you make hard decisions and give up assests.

[Chisoxfn]

After looking at those ERA+/ERA numbers over his last 5.5 seasons it's actually striking how big of an outlier than 09 year was

When you watch him though, its hard to see how he gets hit. Stuff is so good. I want Shields.

[Frank_Thomas]

ERA+ by year (ERA)

 

2007 - 124 (3.69)

2008 - 125 (3.47)

2009 - 205 (2.16)

2010 - 100 (4.17)

2011 - 103 (3.83)

2012 - 120 3.44)

 

So actually yeah, the stats do say that was a career year.

 

 

Usually a CY Young year is a "career year" lol. And how anyone can say those numbers are just okay is beyond me. What does Garza, Sheilds, Dempsters career numbers look like. Not close to that

[Dick Allen]

Give me a break, MIL has probably had better attendance then us since he's been a Brewer and was pitching night in night out in sellout crowds during their playoffs run. And we are not some crazy big market team. Even Youk said the media leaves you alone unless you're the player of yhegame or something. Knit picking to knit pick. And finally clearly plenty of "big" market teams are interested, look at the rumored teams interested. And you aren't scouting a guy if your not interested.

Of the Brewers 5 starters last year, Greinke had the 4th best ERA.

How did he do in the playoffs? What happened in KC in 2010? He's far from a sure thing. If you're giving up a couple pieces of your future for 10 starts, there really is no room for error. One or two bad starts could easily make it a bad trade.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Dick Allen

[WHarris1]

Usually a CY Young year is a "career year" lol. And how anyone can say those numbers are just okay is beyond me. What does Garza, Sheilds, Dempsters career numbers look like. Not close to that

You're the one who said it was a joke to call 09 a career year. Obviously a Cy Young season is going to be a pitchers best year but holy s*** how do you not see the glaring contrast between that year and every single other one? It's not like he was a tick better than his average season.

 

Career ERA+: 115

2009: 205

 

Career ERA: 3.79

2009: 2.16

 

Career WHIP: 1.251

2009: 1.073

 

That's f***ing drastic

[Steve9347]

So everyone is up in arms with giving up a package for ZG, lol what do you think the Cubs or Rays will want for guys under contract for longer than this year. It will be a hell of a lot more than for Grienke. And you guys are worried about what we give up to MIL, I'm sure you will all be cool watching the guys we give the Cubs help them out "for years to come." and let's not forget Garza is out, hurt till after the deadline. But were okay giving up good players for someone who is hurt.

Uh, Shields would certainly be cheaper than Greinke - and under control for 9 mill next year and 12 mill the year after. I hope Shields is the true target.

[Frank_Thomas]

You're the one who said it was a joke to call 09 a career year. Obviously a Cy Young season is going to be a pitchers best year but holy s*** how do you not see the glaring contrast between that year and every single other one? It's not like he was a tick better than his average season.

 

Career ERA+: 115

2009: 205

 

Career ERA: 3.79

2009: 2.16

 

Career WHIP: 1.251

2009: 1.073

 

That's f***ing drastic

 

Wow.really to.disect a guy like ZG is just crazy to me. Its not just about #'s the guy. I'm done defending ZG to the likes of Dempster. I guess well see what Kenny does. But I can tell you this if we do get ZG there will be a whole lot of people eating their words. Just like the majority of this board who said You'll was done and not that good. Ill keep my opinions to.myself until whoever gets ZG shows you what an impact player is.

[WHarris1]

Wow.really to.disect a guy like ZG is just crazy to me. Its not just about #'s the guy. I'm done defending ZG to the likes of Dempster. I guess well see what Kenny does. But I can tell you this if we do get ZG there will be a whole lot of people eating their words. Just like the majority of this board who said You'll was done and not that good. Ill keep my opinions to.myself until whoever gets ZG shows you what an impact player is.

I'm not dissecting him for any purpose other to than show that you that saying his 2009 season was far and away a career year is not a joke, like you stated.

[RockRaines]

Uh, Shields would certainly be cheaper than Greinke - and under control for 9 mill next year and 12 mill the year after. I hope Shields is the true target.

Hmmm, good idea.

[Frank_Thomas]

Uh, Shields would certainly be cheaper than Greinke - and under control for 9 mill next year and 12 mill the year after. I hope Shields is the true target.

 

Uh. No he wont for the fact he is under control for the next 2 years. If Sheilds is traded the Rays will get a far better pacakage than the Brewers. A team is much more likely to include top prospects for a guy they have for multiple years than a 2 month rental. Pretty logical.

[macsandz]

Hmmm, good idea.

It is a nice idea.... I wonder if....? Nevermind.

[fathom]

Uh. No he wont for the fact he is under control for the next 2 years. If Sheilds is traded the Rays will get a far better pacakage than the Brewers. A team is much more likely to include top prospects for a guy they have for multiple years than a 2 month rental. Pretty logical.

 

I agree with you on this

[GoGoSox2k2]

It is a nice idea.... I wonder if....? Nevermind.

 

 

shields is the guy I have wanted us to target all along.. i hope Rock and Bucket are on to something.. pleaseee

[Steve9347]

Uh. No he wont for the fact he is under control for the next 2 years. If Sheilds is traded the Rays will get a far better pacakage than the Brewers. A team is much more likely to include top prospects for a guy they have for multiple years than a 2 month rental. Pretty logical.

Thank you for your opinion. I completely disagree.