Sox want Grienke "badly"

[SOXOBAMA]

I've a feeling that KW is toying with the media. KW said he wanted a guy who is " Chicago Tough" and Greinke doesn't fit that at all. My idea is that KW will get Matt Garza. KW knows to get Greinke will put us in the hole next season but Garza is signed through next season.

[Dick Allen]

I've a feeling that KW is toying with the media. KW said he wanted a guy who is " Chicago Tough" and Greinke doesn't fit that at all. My idea is that KW will get Matt Garza. KW knows to get Greinke will put us in the hole next season but Garza is signed through next season.

Stone was on televison last week and said the Sox wouldn't get Greinke, he's a small market pitcher. You may be right. It could be gamesmanship for another deal.

[RZZZA]

I wonder what Coop could do with Garza...they not doing such a good job with him on the north side imo.

[Dick Allen]

Whatever the Sox do, it has to be to get Humber out of the rotation.

[Marty34]

But The Cell is "dark" and "different."

 

Agree with him that it's different. I attribute that to the odd lot that buys tickets and I say this knowing that those are my people.

[Marty34]

The type of trades you're talking about would make it impossible to be much more than a .500 team next year.

 

Even if this is true, I'm fine with it.

[soxfan49]

Yeah, I doubt KW actually wants Greinke. I can't remember the last time words got out that he wanted someone and he still got him. It's usually a precursor to a trade, but a trade for another player.

[Frank_Thomas]

Stone was on televison last week and said the Sox wouldn't get Greinke, he's a small market pitcher. You may be right. It could be gamesmanship for another deal.

[/quote

 

Personally there is too much out there just to be a smoke screen. I'm agreeing with Bucket and his sources, KW is going after this guy HARD. He has wanted him for a long time, we had our top scout out scouting him, he fits exactly what Kenny said, it would have to be an Impact move. IMO other than Hanley there is no biggeri mpact move out there right now, other than ZG. I have a feeling KW is set on him, if it doesn't happen, we stand pat.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Frank_Thomas35

[Frank_Thomas]

Yeah, I doubt KW actually wants Greinke. I can't remember the last time words got out that he wanted someone and he still got him. It's usually a precursor to a trade, but a trade for another player.

 

Youkilis, Dunn when he was in Washington, to name a few. KW has been a little more open with the media lately. Not to mention I think he feels a little more comfortable clueing people in now that Ozzie and his loose mouth family isn't around. I just have a very hard time believing this is hype.

[caulfield12]

Even if this is true, I'm fine with it.

 

 

So you're okay with KW, no matter what the record and attendance are next year...if he goes for it with Greinke, they don't make the playoffs and Zach ends up with the Braves, Angels, Dodgers, etc.??

 

Because the last time "All In" failed, it took about 4 months into the following season for fans to start believing in that team again.

Edited July 26, 2012 by caulfield12

[Frank_Thomas]

Even if this is true, I'm fine with it.

 

Ditto. Let's give it a go now. And I sincerely doubt because we get Zach we are below .500 next year. Heck we were only suppose to win 64 games this year and we are going to hit that hopefully shortly. Give Kenny some credit look at how the team he put together is performing now. It helps we actually have a lineup that doesn't change daily. KW is smart and will not do anything that hurts us now or in the future.

[The Ultimate Champion]

So you're okay with KW, no matter what the record and attendance are next year...if he goes for it with Greinke, they don't make the playoffs and Zach ends up with the Braves, Angels, Dodgers, etc.??

 

Because the last time "All In" failed, it took about 4 months into the following season for fans to start believing in that team again.

The worse it gets, the more stuff there is to complain about. It's called having your cake and eating it too.

[Frank_Thomas]

So you're okay with KW, no matter what the record and attendance are next year...if he goes for it with Greinke, they don't make the playoffs and Zach ends up with the Braves, Angels, Dodgers, etc.??

 

Because the last time "All In" failed, it took about 4 months into the following season for fans to start believing in that team again.

 

No I think he is saying you worry about the 2013 team in the offseason. You have a chance to go for it, you do. Period. It's been 3 years since we have been to the playoffs. Win now and 2013 takes care of it's self. Be optimistic. And again KW will not just pack it in next year if we don't win the WS this year. It's not in his character or vocabulary, nor the Whitesox philosophy for a long time.

[Marty34]

So you're okay with KW, no matter what the record and attendance are next year...if he goes for it with Greinke, they don't make the playoffs and Zach ends up with the Braves, Angels, Dodgers, etc.??

 

If they don't make the postseason with or without Greinke, I think KW's time should be up.

[Sockin]

Yeah, I doubt KW actually wants Greinke. I can't remember the last time words got out that he wanted someone and he still got him. It's usually a precursor to a trade, but a trade for another player.

 

Youkilis was widely rumored to be coming here before he actually did.

[caulfield12]

Ditto. Let's give it a go now. And I sincerely doubt because we get Zach we are below .500 next year. Heck we were only suppose to win 64 games this year and we are going to hit that hopefully shortly. Give Kenny some credit look at how the team he put together is performing now. It helps we actually have a lineup that doesn't change daily. KW is smart and will not do anything that hurts us now or in the future.

 

Let's say it's Viciedo/Reed/Quintana/DeAza....2 of those 4.

 

And then another prospect like Salidino, second tier guy.

Or possibly including Weeks for Beckham.

 

If we didn't make the playoffs, we'd be hard pressed to keep Youkilis and AJ would be at least 50/50 staying or going. If you also lose Peavy, then there's no point in keeping Floyd just for one season at $9.5 million, unless it's just to trade him at mid-season. However, giving Floyd all those starts would block someone like Castro/Axelrod/Molina/Rienzo/Santiago.

 

Trade Reed, and Myers is going to get to 45 appearances and his $10 million option kicks in, unless he just totally falters.

 

That makes the rotation (theoretically):

 

Sale

Danks (maybe?)

Floyd

Humber

Castro/Axelrod

 

There's just no way to compete with the Tigers with that type of rotation. Then you're going to lose Floyd and the rotation looks even worse for 2014.

 

A team with that much uncertainty (especially because of Danks) is looking at 72-74 wins, at most.

[caulfield12]

If they don't make the postseason with or without Greinke, I think KW's time should be up.

 

 

And if they do make the post-season, with or without Greinke, then he gets at least 2013 and 2014, agreed?

 

Nobody expected the White Sox to be tied for first on July 26th, apparently, except for you.

 

I don't think you would find anyone disappointed in the job he's done or thinking he should be fired based on this season...you can point to 10 positives and only a few negatives (Beckham, Humber, Morel, Danks)...

[Dick Allen]

Let's say it's Viciedo/Reed/Quintana/DeAza....2 of those 4.

 

And then another prospect like Salidino, second tier guy.

Or possibly including Weeks for Beckham.

 

If we didn't make the playoffs, we'd be hard pressed to keep Youkilis and AJ would be at least 50/50 staying or going. If you also lose Peavy, then there's no point in keeping Floyd just for one season at $9.5 million, unless it's just to trade him at mid-season. However, giving Floyd all those starts would block someone like Castro/Axelrod/Molina/Rienzo/Santiago.

 

Trade Reed, and Myers is going to get to 45 appearances and his $10 million option kicks in, unless he just totally falters.

 

That makes the rotation (theoretically):

 

Sale

Danks (maybe?)

Floyd

Humber

Castro/Axelrod

 

There's just no way to compete with the Tigers with that type of rotation. Then you're going to lose Floyd and the rotation looks even worse for 2014.

 

A team with that much uncertainty (especially because of Danks) is looking at 72-74 wins, at most.

If Peavy leaves, even with the buyout, the Sox have 8 figures to play with. They could exercise Floyd's option and trade him and have more to play with. AJ is making $6 million, if he goes more money to play with. You're making it sound like these guys will all leave and will only be replaced by current Charlotte Knights. If the Sox continue to draw, even if they don't make the playoffs this year, they should have an opportunity to put a real competitive team on the field next season, although I agree, there is a price that is too high for a guy who is going to make 10 starts.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

And if they do make the post-season, with or without Greinke, then he gets at least 2013 and 2014, agreed?

 

Nobody expected the White Sox to be tied for first on July 26th, apparently, except for you.

 

I don't think you would find anyone disappointed in the job he's done or thinking he should be fired based on this season...you can point to 10 positives and only a few negatives (Beckham, Humber, Morel, Danks)...

If they didn"t fire him after last season, they weren't going to fire him after this season even if the lost 95 games. They cut the payroll $30 million. Now that they are in contention, he's not going to get fired after 2013 either. Rick Hahn better take a GM job if he gets offered one, because the White Sox job isn't opening up unless KW quits.

[Dick Allen]

Saw this on MLB tonight. 23 of the 49 runs Greinke has allowed this year have come in 5 innings.

 

Also GB% OF 53.7% to go along with 8 k/9, perfect for the cell.

14 of the 22 runs Quintana has allowed have come in 5 innings.

[Marty34]

And if they do make the post-season, with or without Greinke, then he gets at least 2013 and 2014, agreed?

 

Nobody expected the White Sox to be tied for first on July 26th, apparently, except for you.

 

I said they should contend before the season started.

[Frank_Thomas]

Let's say it's Viciedo/Reed/Quintana/DeAza....2 of those 4.

 

And then another prospect like Salidino, second tier guy.

Or possibly including Weeks for Beckham.

 

If we didn't make the playoffs, we'd be hard pressed to keep Youkilis and AJ would be at least 50/50 staying or going. If you also lose Peavy, then there's no point in keeping Floyd just for one season at $9.5 million, unless it's just to trade him at mid-season. However, giving Floyd all those starts would block someone like Castro/Axelrod/Molina/Rienzo/Santiago.

 

Trade Reed, and Myers is going to get to 45 appearances and his $10 million option kicks in, unless he just totally falters.

 

That makes the rotation (theoretically):

 

Sale

Danks (maybe?)

Floyd

Humber

Castro/Axelrod

 

There's just no way to compete with the Tigers with that type of rotation. Then you're going to lose Floyd and the rotation looks even worse for 2014.

 

A team with that much uncertainty (especially because of Danks) is looking at 72-74 wins, at most.

[/quote

 

This is where we differ, I don't think there is anyway we give up Viciedo or Reed. I think we trade Floyd+ Beckham or De Aza+ plus a lower spect or two for ZG + Weeks or Gomez/ Morgan. I don't think either package hinders our success now or next year. I really think the Brewers want Beckham as their SS, ive said a few times they were hot for both Floyd.and GB a year or so ago, and they were said to have interest in De Asa. Imo Tank is untouchable to KW his ceiling is ridiculous.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Frank_Thomas35

[Marty34]

Here's another reason why this year is important especially to KW and maybe JR too. How much more worse does Guillen look if the Sox win big this year? You know the Sox front office would soak up the delicious irony of that.

[Frank_Thomas]

Here's another article about Melvin on ZG. Here's some things I found interesting in here:

 

Melvin said he has not had formal negotiations with Greinke about a contract extension since Spring Training, meaning last week's report that the Brewers had extended a five-year offer in excess of $100 million -- a report Greinke himself confirmed -- was slightly inaccurate. More likely, Melvin and Greinke's agent, Casey Close, informally discussed parameters of a potential deal, and the Greinke camp decided the sides' expectations were too far apart. Greinke is on a path to reach free agency for the first time.

 

Asked on Thursday whether an extension was in the offing, Melvin said, "I don't think that's going to happen. You never know -- someone could pick up the phone. But I don't think so."

 

Nationals manager Davey Johnson doesn't expect to be facing Greinke on Sunday.

 

"I'd be real surprised. I know in the past, if the ballclub's intent on making a move, they're not going to pitch him two days before the Deadline," Johnson said.

 

There were, Johnson said, "several reasons" for his suspicion, including the fact that the Brewers added an extra arm to their bullpen earlier Thursday. There were others.

 

"A club would probably like to put him right in their rotation," Johnson said. "You wouldn't want to do anything to hurt him. So yeah, I'd be surprised if he's still here."

 

Link: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/2012072635605600/

[greg775]

Sox fans must be still spoiled with the 2005 World Series if they are willing to pass on this golden opportunity because they don't want to sell the farm. Greinke is a difference maker at the top of the rotation. Does it guarantee a World Series, no, but neither does hanging on to Viciedo, Reed, or Quintana. All this talk about this package is too much, or that package is too much because it involves one or two of those three is in my opinion nonsense.

 

Giving up Q would defeat the purpose of adding Greinke.

The fact there is NO CHANCE to sign him for the future makes giving up Viciedo and Reed and 2 top minor leaguers a very stupid proposition. Cause if the gamble does not work and we do not make the playoffs, the team next year will be in very bad shape. Viciedo's bat is pretty important to this team's future. Reed is the current closer. Q looks like a decent starter who will eat a lot of innings maybe.

The fact the Brewers want a lot means the Sox should not go there.

In my mind, it would be tough to be a GM to trade some of the organization's best prospects for 10 starts. Let's say he's blah in two of the starts and great in the other eight? He gets no run support in two of those eight. So he wins six games for us. Yes, he could be pivotal IF we make the playoffs.

 

This is why KW gets paid the big bucks, to make decisions like this.

I'd prefer trading a couple prospects to the twins for Liriano and have Coop fix him or send the Marlins players for JOhnson.