Sox want Grienke "badly"

[hogan873]

I would assume it would be Hudson, however I think I would prefer Escobar to start. And don't be shocked if we trade Gordon if we got MIL 2B in return, Weeks. And then he'd be our two bagger.

I like the idea of Floyd/Beckham for Grienke/Weeks. I don't think it's enough though. The Sox would have to give up something else.

[Melissa1334]

I like the idea of Floyd/Beckham for Grienke/Weeks. I don't think it's enough though. The Sox would have to give up something else.

i dont see how they could move weeks at this point. hes owed 21mil the next two years combined, which i wouldnt want the sox paying. theyre better off keeping him and hope that he does better next year than to trade him and pay half his salary. anyways, floyd, beckham+ for greinke,not sure. floyd and prospects or a reliever fine. i really dont see greinke doing that much better than floyd the rest of the way

[Frank_Thomas]

I like the idea of Floyd/Beckham for Grienke/Weeks. I don't think it's enough though. The Sox would have to give up something else.

 

 

I agree I ultimately see those four names as the headliners in a potential trade, with a couple of lesser prospects going to the Brewers as well. Hopefully we will get a lot more info today since yesterday was slow with the off day. Either way reports say this thing should wrap up be the latest Sunday when ZG pitches.

[Frank_Thomas]

i dont see how they could move weeks at this point. hes owed 21mil the next two years combined, which i wouldnt want the sox paying. theyre better off keeping him and hope that he does better next year than to trade him and pay half his salary. anyways, floyd, beckham+ for greinke,not sure. floyd and prospects or a reliever fine. i really dont see greinke doing that much better than floyd the rest of the way

 

We get Weeks because it fits a need created at second by trading Beckham, and also makes it desirable for MIL to trade weeks to save that 21 MIL. Weeks is a way better option than the sub .200 hitting of Esco or O Dog. Additionally, when Weeks plays well he is a hell an offensive threat.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Frank_Thomas35

[royoung]

I like the idea of Floyd/Beckham for Grienke/Weeks. I don't think it's enough though. The Sox would have to give up something else.

 

 

I know Floyd is the popular name to throw around as far as trade rumors go, but has Milwaukee shown any indication of wanting him? Everyone they've asked for is a top prospect, not Floyd/Beckham who are underachieving major leaguers who are probably never going to hit their expected potential. If this deal goes down for the Sox, expect it to be guys like Keenyn Walker, Trayce Thompson, Scott Snodgress, and a young valuable big leaguer like Quintana, Jones, Reed or Viciedo. Those guys have lots of team control, actually have potential and are cheap.

[Melissa1334]

We get Weeks because it fits a need created at second by trading Beckham, and also makes it desirable for MIL to trade weeks to save that 21 MIL. Weeks is a way better option than the sub .200 hitting of Esco or O Dog. Additionally, when Weeks plays well he is a hell an offensive threat.

hes batting .200 ,hopefully hed do better with a change of scenery, idk. not sure the sox would want to pay weeks 10mil a year when that can be given to youkilis. hes worth that but only when hes producing like he did in '10. beckham is proabably the most expendable player of all the position players and it would suck if he figured it out for them and then we have nothing to show for but guess we'll find out today or tomarrow

[Frank_Thomas]

I know Floyd is the popular name to throw around as far as trade rumors go, but has Milwaukee shown any indication of wanting him? Everyone they've asked for is a top prospect, not Floyd/Beckham who are underachieving major leaguers who are probably never going to hit their expected potential. If this deal goes down for the Sox, expect it to be guys like Keenyn Walker, Trayce Thompson, Scott Snodgress, and a young valuable big leaguer like Quintana, Jones, Reed or Viciedo. Those guys have lots of team control, actually have potential and are cheap.

 

IMO yes they have shown interest. I don't know for sure about right bow. But a year or so ago the Brewers wanted Floyd+Beckham+ Spects for Prince Fielder. They have been known to have an interest in both players in previous years. I would assume they internally want to turn GB back into a SS, and like Floyds stuff in the NL. I also think Melvin is interested in ML ready players in exchange. People he can plug in and know what he is getting, instead of gambling on a teams prospects who are great minor players.

[NorthSideSox72]

Has anyone else pointed out yet that Greinke's ERA on the road is 1.5 runs higher than at home? BAA is about 100 points higher on the road as well? Same thing last year, by the way, ERA about 1.5 runs higher on the road. This may be an effect of his anxiety disorder - he doesn't travel well. And jumping onto a new team for two months in pennant race means almost every game will feel like an away game for him.

 

[Melissa1334]

I know Floyd is the popular name to throw around as far as trade rumors go, but has Milwaukee shown any indication of wanting him? Everyone they've asked for is a top prospect, not Floyd/Beckham who are underachieving major leaguers who are probably never going to hit their expected potential. If this deal goes down for the Sox, expect it to be guys like Keenyn Walker, Trayce Thompson, Scott Snodgress, and a young valuable big leaguer like Quintana, Jones, Reed or Viciedo. Those guys have lots of team control, actually have potential and are cheap.

i think they would be interested in floyd. it would be dumb for them to start selling off pieces. greinke makes sense because theyre going to lose him in fa. but they have the pieces to still compete in that division the next few years. gallarado, lucroy,hart,ramirez,braun.they just need to add a few arms to the bullpen and maybe another starter. they can try to win with floyd and id assume hed do good in the nl and if theyre out of contention then they could end up trading him for prospects

[royoung]

IMO yes they have shown interest. I don't know for sure about right bow. But a year or so ago the Brewers wanted Floyd+Beckham+ Spects for Prince Fielder. They have been known to have an interest in both players in previous years. I would assume they internally want to turn GB back into a SS, and like Floyds stuff in the NL. I also think Melvin is interested in ML ready players in exchange. People he can plug in and know what he is getting, instead of gambling on a teams prospects who are great minor players.

 

I think that type of package may be a backup plan for Melvin, but I can promise you if the Braves include some of their pitching prospects, or Texas agrees to include Olt, they aren't passing up on that.

[Frank_Thomas]

I agree that the Sox have to do what they can to grab this opportunity...within reason. Personally, I don't see the value of a Quintana for Grienke swap. It might be a slight upgrade for 8-10 starts, but you're sacrificing the future for 2 months. A Floyd for Grienke swap would be an upgrade (slight or maybe a bit better), and you're holding on to that future.

 

If we as White Sox fans have learned anything over the past 7 years (since 2005), it's to dislike the trading of the future of the team for a chance today.

 

Here are their splits:

 

Greinke

G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA  

 April   30 30 12 7 0 0 0 3 1 183.2 172 58 49 9 48 150 2.40 1.20 .246  

 May   49 40 15 15 0 0 3 5 1 263.1 271 121 116 28 51 233 3.96 1.22 .265  

 June   47 37 16 15 1 0 3 1 0 252.1 260 141 133 33 57 229 4.74 1.26 .264  

 July   47 37 9 19 0 0 3 1 0 224.2 241 130 116 26 68 226 4.65 1.38 .274  

 August 43 34 14 10 0 0 3 1 1 227.1 223 98 90 24 60 197 3.56 1.24 .255  

 Septembe 41 38 19 9 0 0 0 1 0 240.1 222 85 79 18 66 211 2.96 1.20 .245  

 October 2 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 11.0 13 7 7 0 3 8 5.73 1.45 .317  

 

 vs. CLE 27 22 8 9 0 0 2 0 0 132.2 142 66 56 10 44 120 3.80 1.40 .273  

 vs. DET 25 22 11 6 0 0 0 2 0 133.1 123 45 42 11 33 102 2.84 1.17 .243  

vs. TEX 12 10 3 5 0 0 1 1 1 64.0 61 22 20 7 13 59 2.81 1.16 .242  

vs. NYY. 11 8 2 4 0 0 1 0 0 44.2 51 34 32 7 23 27 6.45 1.66 .283   

 vs. LAA  8 7 1 4 0 0 0 2 0 48.2. 56 21 20 3 11 38 3.70 1.38 .293  

 

Floyd:

    G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA  

 April   34 32 13 12 0 0 0 0 0 192.1 185 124 113 26 88 149 5.29 1.42 .253  

 May   31 30 11 14 0 0 0 3 1 184.1 196 114 111 24 59 127 5.42 1.38 .271  

 June   29 29 11 8 0 0 0 2 0 183.2 167 87 73 24 53 146 3.58 1.20 .239  

 July   27 25 12 8 0 0 0 0 0 164.0 151 74 63 21 57 124 3.46 1.27 .246  

 August 30 26 13 8 0 0 0 0 0 169.0 180 90 87 27 45 138 4.63 1.33 .274  

 September32 29 6 13 0 0 0 0 0 174.2 185 91 86 19 50 142 4.43 1.35 .272

 

 vs. CLE 14 14 7 4 0 0 0 0 0 82.1 88 47 43 7 21 77 4.70 1.32 .274  

 vs. DET 19 19 7 2 0 0 0 0 0 115.2 122 51 44 11 36 90 3.42 1.37 .269  

 vs. TEX 7 7 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 38.0 35 25 21 9 16 26 4.97 1.34 .236  

 vs. NYY 8 7 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 46.0 52 31 31 12 16 37 6.07 1.48 .287

 vs. LAA 8 8 2 5 0 0 0 2 0 56.0 52 32 31 8 16 34 4.98 1.21 .249

 

 

I would have to disagree after seeing this, I would much rather have Zach for the next two months. Those are some scary numbers from Gavin for the last two months of the season and against playoff teams. That's hy KW makes this move. This is a huge difference maker.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Floyd:

Edited July 27, 2012 by Frank_Thomas35

[Melissa1334]

Has anyone else pointed out yet that Greinke's ERA on the road is 1.5 runs higher than at home? BAA is about 100 points higher on the road as well? Same thing last year, by the way, ERA about 1.5 runs higher on the road. This may be an effect of his anxiety disorder - he doesn't travel well. And jumping onto a new team for two months in pennant race means almost every game will feel like an away game for him.

yea, he did do good at the cell last month and against the phillies on tuesday when all eyes were on him.

Game Logs:

 

@chc-3.2ip 8er

@Stl-6ip 1er

@sf-5.1ip 3er

@ny-7ip 0er

@ari-2.1ip 7er

@lad-6ip 1er

@kcr-7ip 1er

@min-8p 4er

@cws-9ip 0er

@cin-6ip 2er

@hou-0ip 1er(ejected)

@hou-3ip 3er(day after)

@phi-7ip 1er

 

so he hasnt been that bad on the road this year, just 2 terrible starts

Edited July 27, 2012 by Melissa1334

[Frank_Thomas]

I think that type of package may be a backup plan for Melvin, but I can promise you if the Braves include some of their pitching prospects, or Texas agrees to include Olt, they aren't passing up on that.

 

Again I disagree, if you're Houston, the Cubs, Miami, KC, Etc. You want a teams best prospects so you can build in the future. The difference is Melvin doesn't want to rebuild he wants to make trades to help the the team continue to win now and next year. He doesn't believe he needs to blow the thing up. Not to mention they have to keep the team competitive when you have Ryan Braun manning LF. IMO I think Melvin wants players back that have ML track records, players that help the ML team, and players he has control of. Yes TEX, ATL, LAA all have better farms but ultimately I think what brings ZG to us is our willingness to include the likes of Gavin and Gordon. I think that is why we saw LAA pull out last night, they have great prospects but backed off at the price. If the price was steep because of prospects involved the Sox wouldn't still be in the conversation at this point.

[Melissa1334]

Again I disagree, if you're Houston, the Cubs, Miami, KC, Etc. You want a teams best prospects so you can build in the future. The difference is Melvin doesn't want to rebuild he wants to make trades to help the the team continue to win now and next year. He doesn't believe he needs to blow the thing up. Not to mention they have to keep the team competitive when you have Ryan Braun manning LF. IMO I think Melvin wants players back that have ML track records, players that help the ML team, and players he has control of. Yes TEX, ATL, LAA all have better farms but ultimately I think what brings ZG to us is our willingness to include the likes of Gavin and Gordon. I think that is why we saw LAA pull out last night, they have great prospects but backed off at the price. If the price was steep because of prospects involved the Sox wouldn't still be in the conversation at this point.

good post, i agree with all of it. melvin said he has no desire to move hart or aram so that tells me hes not looking to rebuild

Edited July 27, 2012 by Melissa1334

[Frank_Thomas]

I think that type of package may be a backup plan for Melvin, but I can promise you if the Braves include some of their pitching prospects, or Texas agrees to include Olt, they aren't passing up on that.

 

I hate to say it but if you look at these Blockbuster trades for pitchers in the past. The team trading the pitcher always gets this sick package of can't miss prospects back in return. But really how many of those trades have panned out now? Moat of those center pieces had fizzed out or have been average players, basically Beckham and Floyd now. The only return I can think of recently was ATL and Tex swapping Texeria for basically half of the current rangers team. But other than that there is not that great win for any team.

[royoung]

Again I disagree, if you're Houston, the Cubs, Miami, KC, Etc. You want a teams best prospects so you can build in the future. The difference is Melvin doesn't want to rebuild he wants to make trades to help the the team continue to win now and next year. He doesn't believe he needs to blow the thing up. Not to mention they have to keep the team competitive when you have Ryan Braun manning LF. IMO I think Melvin wants players back that have ML track records, players that help the ML team, and players he has control of. Yes TEX, ATL, LAA all have better farms but ultimately I think what brings ZG to us is our willingness to include the likes of Gavin and Gordon. I think that is why we saw LAA pull out last night, they have great prospects but backed off at the price. If the price was steep because of prospects involved the Sox wouldn't still be in the conversation at this point.

 

I understand your point, but he's not asking for prospects who are years away, he has been asking about guys who are pretty advanced. Mike Olt is 23 and mashing in AA, Julio Teheran and Delgado are in Triple A and the Majors respectively, Jean Segura and Garrett Richards of the Angels, guys that are going to contribute next year and be cheap and under team control for 6 years. Floyd is a good pitcher, don't get me wrong, but he's inconsistent and was made very available in the off-season and nobody traded for him. How has his value increased since then? Egg on my face if Floyd is dealt for Greinke, but I don't see the Brewers doing that.

[royoung]

good post, i agree with all of it. melvin said he has no desire to move hart or aram so that tells me hes not looking to rebuild

 

It's not rebuilding, it's reloading! Haha

[Kyyle23]

somebody tweeted yesterday that of the 46 runs Greinke has given up, 25 of them came in 5 innings. I think it was Rosenthal

[royoung]

I understand your point, but he's not asking for prospects who are years away, he has been asking about guys who are pretty advanced. Mike Olt is 23 and mashing in AA, Julio Teheran and Delgado are in Triple A and the Majors respectively, Jean Segura and Garrett Richards of the Angels, guys that are going to contribute next year and be cheap and under team control for 6 years. Floyd is a good pitcher, don't get me wrong, but he's inconsistent and was made very available in the off-season and nobody traded for him. How has his value increased since then? Egg on my face if Floyd is dealt for Greinke, but I don't see the Brewers doing that.

 

 

And I should add, I would be ecstatic if Floyd was the centerpiece of a Greinke deal, but as I said, I think the Brewers would be laughed at if that was their main return.

[caulfield12]

I hate to say it but if you look at these Blockbuster trades for pitchers in the past. The team trading the pitcher always gets this sick package of can't miss prospects back in return. But really how many of those trades have panned out now? Moat of those center pieces had fizzed out or have been average players, basically Beckham and Floyd now. The only return I can think of recently was ATL and Tex swapping Texeria for basically half of the current rangers team. But other than that there is not that great win for any team.

 

 

Colon for Lee, Sizemore, Brandon Phillips

[Frank_Thomas]

I understand your point, but he's not asking for prospects who are years away, he has been asking about guys who are pretty advanced. Mike Olt is 23 and mashing in AA, Julio Teheran and Delgado are in Triple A and the Majors respectively, Jean Segura and Garrett Richards of the Angels, guys that are going to contribute next year and be cheap and under team control for 6 years. Floyd is a good pitcher, don't get me wrong, but he's inconsistent and was made very available in the off-season and nobody traded for him. How has his value increased since then? Egg on my face if Floyd is dealt for Greinke, but I don't see the Brewers doing that.

 

I hear you, but all those people are just big question marks with good pedigrees and scouting reports. How that success translates to the big leagues is a huge huge jump. That's why you see so many highly regarded prospects fizzle out. The ML is a different beast you have to be able to mentally make adjustments daily. Most of these prospects get by in the minors because of their god gifted physical talent. That alone will only make you average in the big leagues. I just see Melvin seeing the Sox offer as more for sure thing. I could be way off and Melvin may just add these great prospects and hope they catch on this year, next year or the year after in the bigs or triple-A. Who knows anytime you make a trade for prospects it's like playing the lottery IMO.

[Frank_Thomas]

Colon for Lee, Sizemore, Brandon Phillips

 

Good call! But two of those three play for different teams and one has suffered injury setbacks their whole careers. It's just such a gamble IMO. Look at the high profile pitchers traded recently, CC twice, C-Lee twice, Doc just to name the recent ones and most of those prospects returned are replaceable on most rosterS.

[southsider2k5]

And I should add, I would be ecstatic if Floyd was the centerpiece of a Greinke deal, but as I said, I think the Brewers would be laughed at if that was their main return.

 

For a team that has lost Sabathia and now Grienke because they can't afford to pay them, a middle of the rotation cost controlled pitcher could very well have some value to a small market franchise like Milwaukee. I have no idea what the Brewers think of Floyd, but the idea isn't necessarily as laughable as you think. If they can't get a very young pitcher, a guy like Floyd gives them some stability and respectability in that rotation.

[Frank_Thomas]

For a team that has lost Sabathia and now Grienke because they can't afford to pay them, a middle of the rotation cost controlled pitcher could very well have some value to a small market franchise like Milwaukee. I have no idea what the Brewers think of Floyd, but the idea isn't necessarily as laughable as you think. If they can't get a very young pitcher, a guy like Floyd gives them some stability and respectability in that rotation.

 

 

Good post well said, and that's why it has to be atleast attractive for Melvin.

[Frank_Thomas]

Here are their splits:

 

Greinke

G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA  

 April   30 30 12 7 0 0 0 3 1 183.2 172 58 49 9 48 150 2.40 1.20 .246  

 May   49 40 15 15 0 0 3 5 1 263.1 271 121 116 28 51 233 3.96 1.22 .265  

 June   47 37 16 15 1 0 3 1 0 252.1 260 141 133 33 57 229 4.74 1.26 .264  

 July   47 37 9 19 0 0 3 1 0 224.2 241 130 116 26 68 226 4.65 1.38 .274  

 August 43 34 14 10 0 0 3 1 1 227.1 223 98 90 24 60 197 3.56 1.24 .255  

 Septembe 41 38 19 9 0 0 0 1 0 240.1 222 85 79 18 66 211 2.96 1.20 .245  

 October 2 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 11.0 13 7 7 0 3 8 5.73 1.45 .317  

 

 vs. CLE 27 22 8 9 0 0 2 0 0 132.2 142 66 56 10 44 120 3.80 1.40 .273  

 vs. DET 25 22 11 6 0 0 0 2 0 133.1 123 45 42 11 33 102 2.84 1.17 .243  

vs. TEX 12 10 3 5 0 0 1 1 1 64.0 61 22 20 7 13 59 2.81 1.16 .242  

vs. NYY. 11 8 2 4 0 0 1 0 0 44.2 51 34 32 7 23 27 6.45 1.66 .283   

 vs. LAA  8 7 1 4 0 0 0 2 0 48.2. 56 21 20 3 11 38 3.70 1.38 .293  

 

Floyd:

    G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA  

 April   34 32 13 12 0 0 0 0 0 192.1 185 124 113 26 88 149 5.29 1.42 .253  

 May   31 30 11 14 0 0 0 3 1 184.1 196 114 111 24 59 127 5.42 1.38 .271  

 June   29 29 11 8 0 0 0 2 0 183.2 167 87 73 24 53 146 3.58 1.20 .239  

 July   27 25 12 8 0 0 0 0 0 164.0 151 74 63 21 57 124 3.46 1.27 .246  

 August 30 26 13 8 0 0 0 0 0 169.0 180 90 87 27 45 138 4.63 1.33 .274  

 September32 29 6 13 0 0 0 0 0 174.2 185 91 86 19 50 142 4.43 1.35 .272

 

 vs. CLE 14 14 7 4 0 0 0 0 0 82.1 88 47 43 7 21 77 4.70 1.32 .274  

 vs. DET 19 19 7 2 0 0 0 0 0 115.2 122 51 44 11 36 90 3.42 1.37 .269  

 vs. TEX 7 7 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 38.0 35 25 21 9 16 26 4.97 1.34 .236  

 vs. NYY 8 7 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 46.0 52 31 31 12 16 37 6.07 1.48 .287

 vs. LAA 8 8 2 5 0 0 0 2 0 56.0 52 32 31 8 16 34 4.98 1.21 .249

 

 

I would have to disagree after seeing this, I would much rather have Zach for the next two months. Those are some scary numbers from Gavin for the last two months of the season and against playoff teams. That's hy KW makes this move. This is a huge difference maker.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And looking at his number in August Sept and Oct. And against our competitors is why it makes it so attractive to us. Even if we have to give up ML guys like GB and Floyd.