cabiness42 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I just have a hard time giving up Reed and Floyd for 2 months of Greinke. Its just tough. I can probably live with that deal though, as long as the Sox reinvest and do something in the off-season to sign a pitcher. If the Sox were interested in signing Greinke to a 4yr 80M deal, then I'd be more on board. Oh, I doubt it would be both. I don't think they get Floyd if they get Reed. If the Sox have to give up Reed, then Floyd probably goes somewhere else for a bullpen arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:52 AM) How happy is anyone going to be if the Sox trade any of the mentioned for Greinke and his issues either cause him to be average or the Sox don't win and he walks? KW has been grilled on this board for giving away crappy minor leaguers for major leaguers. Now many people want him to give up his top young players for a guy who is very talented, but a head case, and for 10 starts. If he doesn't lead to Sox to where they want to go and he skates away, it would be a huge error. I'd love the Sox to add Greinke, but it seems there is very little chance he'd be retained and I don't think 10 starts is worth Reed and more. Don't forget, if you are giving up Floyd, then it isn't as beneficial (in terms of making the post-season). 10 starts from Greinke are better then 10 starts from Floyd, however, best case Greinke wins 2-3 more of those starts (best case). He clearly makes you better after that. I'd have a different perspective if there was still draft pick compensation, but you get nothing. I just can't support this type of a move, not at this cost. If the Sox missed the playoffs, wow, it would be incredibly detrimental, especially since it is the young talent that has helped this club so much this year. For once, be patient Kenny. Try to strike on a replacement 5th starter or if you are going to give up major chips, get a starter whose cost-controlled and will be around for another year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Its Greinke or nobody. We are going all out for Greinke, the Brewers want Reed. According to Heyman, he was on WSCR Reed does not have enough stuff to hold up that kind of deal. Do it, KW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You trade Reed away assuming he's not one of VERY few closers that are good enough to keep that role for 6 years. Sans a WS win, you'd feel bad about him actually closing that long for them if he did. This mentally weak stuff wouldn't be said about Zack if he didnt have a clinical condition. Gavin Floyd isn't mentally weak either, he's literally unflappable out there. He's just inconsistent. Occasional bad pitching =/= mental weakness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:05 AM) In many ways, he's very similar to Javy Vazquez. Yep overrated... ZG Career: G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 259 218 85 76 1 0 12 12 3 1402.2 1402 640 590 138 353 1254 3.79 1.25 .259 And he is identical to Javy... Javy Career: G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 450 443 165 160 0 0 1 28 8 2840.0 2784 1431 1331 373 763 2536 4.22 1.25 .255 Come on guys ZG is an ace and one of the best pitchers in the game stuff wise. He has played for bad teams and still had a remarkable career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:17 AM) I just have a hard time giving up Reed and Floyd for 2 months of Greinke. Its just tough. I can probably live with that deal though, as long as the Sox reinvest and do something in the off-season to sign a pitcher. If the Sox were interested in signing Greinke to a 4yr 80M deal, then I'd be more on board. But would Greinke realistically even consider that offer? The only way would be if he tanked and we didn't make the playoffs. Then we wouldn't want him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) I disagree that Greinke is the only one they are going after, in fact I believe they have multiple oars in the water. Damn I hope you're right, this Grienke business is killing me, if I'm giving up my future for a SP then it's one that doesn't have ANY questions about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:19 AM) Oh, I doubt it would be both. I don't think they get Floyd if they get Reed. If the Sox have to give up Reed, then Floyd probably goes somewhere else for a bullpen arm. Reed, Santiago, and a prospect isn't getting Greinke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I would give up Reed, but that's about the max. I don't value closers or relievers that highly. Perfectly said. If there's a position we are stocked with in the minors, it is relief pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) Perfectly said. If there's a position we are stocked with in the minors, it is relief pitcher. Relief pitcher =/= closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:21 AM) But would Greinke realistically even consider that offer? The only way would be if he tanked and we didn't make the playoffs. Then we wouldn't want him anyway. I doubt it. I think Greinke signs in Anaheim in the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) Reed, Santiago, and a prospect isn't getting Greinke. And that price is probably too high anyways, just say no KW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:21 AM) Damn I hope you're right, this Grienke business is killing me, if I'm giving up my future for a SP then it's one that doesn't have ANY questions about them. I agree with Rock. No way is Kenny purely fixated on Zack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:10 AM) I personally trust KW, our scouts, player development, talent evaluators, etc we have in place with in the organization to make player decisions. They have had a damn good track record since Buddy Bell came in and our current ML roster shows that. With that said I also trust their assessment of a player when determining if he is replaceable going forward. Look at Sergio, people were flabergasted when KW traded him for nothing. And they guy hasn't pitched since April. Let them do their jobs. We have multiple closers on the team now and I trust them to find a replacement if need be for future years. Again do you want to take a chance and be a part of another deep run in October, see a trophy lifted in the middle of US Cellular field, a parade with 2 Mil people in the streets of Chicago. Or do you want to worry about what could happen next year and in 2018 next year. Cause the difference is, the Chicago Whitesox go for it, year in year out. The Chicago Cubs wait till next year and worry about next year in July. Me, I prefer to be a Sox fan. Go get em' Kenny, worry about next year in November with another ring on your finger. I think we already are "going for it" but trading for Peavy and Youkilis, signing Rios and Dunn, resigning Konerko and Danks, etc etc I could go on and on. That is going for it, not completely f'ing our future for a 3 month rental who doesn't seem to want anything to do with you. I understand he will pitch for whoever acquires him, but just realize after the season is over, he is gone and Reed is going to be the Brewers closer for the next 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It's definitely not worth giving up your closer of the future for a rental. 10 starts vs. 5 years...you do the math. Non-elite relievers are a dime a dozen. Reed doesn't seem to have the stuff to be elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:25 AM) I think we already are "going for it" but trading for Peavy and Youkilis, signing Rios and Dunn, resigning Konerko and Danks, etc etc I could go on and on. That is going for it, not completely f'ing our future for a 3 month rental who doesn't seem to want anything to do with you. I understand he will pitch for whoever acquires him, but just realize after the season is over, he is gone and Reed is going to be the Brewers closer for the next 5. Ya most people that saw the team before this year wouldn't agree with you. The term "going for it" didn't really ring out with many people describing this team. But with good managing, bounce back years most people didn't think possible, good moves by the front office in calling up players has got us to the point we are in first place. I agree getting Youk and Meyers showed KW was going for it this year. But IMO as is now we are a playoff bubble team that gets eliminated first round by a NYY, TX, LAA. With ZG in our rotation, I see us as WS contenders hand down. Going for it in my estimation is WS not AL central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:23 AM) I doubt it. I think Greinke signs in Anaheim in the off-season. The other big rumors are we wants to play for the Braves or Angels. All things considered, So Cal is the best bet...or Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:24 AM) I agree with Rock. No way is Kenny purely fixated on Zack. Unless teams are trying to acquire our players proactively, I can say that there is no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) I disagree that Greinke is the only one they are going after, in fact I believe they have multiple oars in the water. With the price as high as it is for Greinke, I'd bet money Kenny is on the phone to other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 With the price as high as it is for Greinke, I'd bet money Kenny is on the phone to other teams. Maybe the price is that high for just about everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:56 AM) Maybe the price is that high for just about everyone? It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:56 AM) Maybe the price is that high for just about everyone? Maybe, some pitchers have longer contracts though which ups the value. The Cubs seem to want high ceiling pitching prospects back for any of their MLB arms which makes sense. AZ has a few pens arms available for probably some minor league position players or a decent MLB-ready pen guy. There are varying moves we could be making. If KW really believes that Danks will come back sometime in August and will add a potential middle of the rotation talent to his roster then he is probably going to add a pen arm if anything which could be had with our current minor league system. We really dont NEED a 1-2 starter because we have Sale, Peavy and Q which is at this point one of the best top of the rotations in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) Maybe, some pitchers have longer contracts though which ups the value. The Cubs seem to want high ceiling pitching prospects back for any of their MLB arms which makes sense. AZ has a few pens arms available for probably some minor league position players or a decent MLB-ready pen guy. There are varying moves we could be making. If KW really believes that Danks will come back sometime in August and will add a potential middle of the rotation talent to his roster then he is probably going to add a pen arm if anything which could be had with our current minor league system. We really dont NEED a 1-2 starter because we have Sale, Peavy and Q which is at this point one of the best top of the rotations in baseball. That's true. As time goes by and I read more and more, I'm kind of hoping the Sox don't trade for Grienke, if for no other reason that any team acquiring him is likely to overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I'd trade anything for Felix Hernandez on the other hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hoping Danks comes back and is ok is seriously the worst idea I have heard. At no point during this season did Danks ever look like he was ok, and with his multiple setbacks I just have a hard time believing he can be counted on this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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