Best organization in baseball

[kitekrazy]

The cubs have tried to do the same thing the Yankees did for years, so did the Red Sox. Combined, those teams have 2 championships in the past 1 million years.

 

It hasn't work out for the Yankees too much either considering what they've spent.

 

[TaylorStSox]

It hasn't work out for the Yankees too much either considering what they've spent.

How much are 5 WS worth? I'd give my pinky for one more.

[Greg Hibbard]

Winning in the game of major league baseball means more than playing within the lines. It means spending money wisely within the rules. There are lots of very wealthy sports owners (as well as non sports owners) everywhere. If you want to apologize for the other poor wealthy 29 owners that they couldn't possibly compete with the big bad Yankees, go right ahead. And yes, this is my "who you crappin'" for the week

[NorthSideSox72]

LOL, the Yankees aren't even an option in the poll? Not to mention this subject is so insanely subjective and variable from person to person that there really is no substantive discussion to be had. Wins? Titles? Penants? Attendance? Ballpark experience? Cost to attend games? Fan treatment in general? Personalities? Hall of Famers and great players? Uniforms?

 

[ScottyDo]

LOL, the Yankees aren't even an option in the poll? Not to mention this subject is so insanely subjective and variable from person to person that there really is no substantive discussion to be had. Wins? Titles? Penants? Attendance? Ballpark experience? Cost to attend games? Fan treatment in general? Personalities? Hall of Famers and great players? Uniforms?

Not to mention, not White Sox related

[caulfield12]

Not to mention, not White Sox related

 

 

I put the White Sox as one of the teams on the list.

 

There's no way I could include more than 10 teams...if you want to change the polling system to have all 30 teams included, you're more than welcome to do so.

[mgaughan09]

I wonder who is the lone voter for the royals /green

[SOXOBAMA]

Rangers

[35thstreetswarm]

Brewers and Giants barely missed the cut for differing reasons...eliminated Phillies, Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs and Red Sox just to make it interesting and create a tier or grouping that was perhaps the most similar to the White Sox in terms of revenue/resources/market.

 

No definition of "best" here.....winningest, best farm system, best fanbase, most economically efficient, best young players under 25, etc.

 

Great poll. Here's another one - "Biggest thing in Chicago"

 

Water

White Sox

People

Families

Aon Center

Fire

 

Eliminated Willis Tower, Merchandise Mart, McCormick Place, and the City of Chicago to make it interesting. No definition of "biggest".....most mass, coolest, thing you like the most, furthest away, loudest, spiciest, etc.

[caulfield12]

Great poll. Here's another one - "Biggest thing in Chicago"

 

Water

White Sox

People

Families

Aon Center

Fire

 

Eliminated Willis Tower, Merchandise Mart, McCormick Place, and the City of Chicago to make it interesting. No definition of "biggest".....most mass, coolest, thing you like the most, furthest away, loudest, spiciest, etc.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

 

How about you define what makes the best organization? You seem pretty bright and perceptive.

 

Have at it.

 

Am waiting with bated breath for your delineation, parameters or demarcation...since I'm sure there is universal agreement on every aspect of baseball operations here, and it's very much a consensus-oriented crowd at SoxTalk.

 

Just trying to spark a little baseball discussion on a Friday afternoon, it's not the Inquisition.

 

But please tell me who you think has the best organization and why. Okies?

[caulfield12]

I wonder who is the lone voter for the royals /green

 

 

I doubt it's Greg775. But could be. Maybe he feels sorry for Dayton Moore not receiving a vote.

[southsider2k5]

Southsider, seriously, what's the point of discussion if you are going to set arbitrary guidelines to account for what you don't like about what the game of baseball has patently allowed since the beginning?

 

The part where this a subjective conversation. It is no different than the artibrary guidelines you set for what you value in the game.

[caulfield12]

The part where this a subjective conversation. It is no different than the artibrary guidelines you set for what you value in the game.

 

 

It's really why these discussions are kind of fascinating.

 

Win now versus win later.

 

How much adding X/Y/Z player helps to "guarantee" winning now vs. how much are you willing to sacrifice of the future...?

 

Surely, these trade discussions and best organization discussions would all be quite different had the White Sox never won the World Series. Probably, many would be for trading Viciedo or Quintana to get a Greinke or Shields or Josh Johnson to "put the Sox over the top."

 

 

You can't argue with the Yankees' 27 championships, any more than you could argue with Manchester United or the Montreal Canadiens or the Lakers/Bulls/Celtics/Heat.

 

That doesn't necessarily make an organization "best"...it might be the most successful in terms of wins and losses, but that's not always the same to many people. To some, winning championships, that's all that matters. Or look at Penn State, for a collegiate example....where the desire to win and protect the reputation of an entity (the program) corrupts the enterprise from within.

 

To others, it means taking a team from the basement into the playoffs or taking a low-budget team and advancing past the super-organizations. We all love the Cinderella story. One only needs to watch March Madness to see how prevalent that viewpoint is in society today.

Edited July 27, 2012 by caulfield12

[Feeky Magee]

They've been much less successful in the playoffs than the Rays, Phillies, Cardinals, Red Sox or Rangers.

 

 

It's like saying Manchester United is the best football club...once you start having this debate, they have five milllion advantages that make comparing them to other teams kind of a pointless intellectual exercise.

 

It's like those same debates about how Phil Jackson would have done away from the Lakers and Bulls, with a rebuilding or "average" NBA team.

 

Billy Beane as GM of the Yankees, or Terry Ryan, or Andrew Friedman.

 

Cashman running, let's say, the Padres.

United have an enormous handicap, in the form of almost £500m of debt. Most years more money is spent on paying interest on the debt than signing players, never mind paying it off. Even ignoring the debt for the last 7 years, since 1992 United have only spent 4th most in the league and won 12 titles to the next best 3. United's two biggest rivals for next year, Man City and Chelsea have spent £382m and £215m net in the last 5 years compared to United's £34m, and both currently pay significantly more in wages too. United create a lot of money but it's a bit pointless as it's being wasted on a debt which exists entirely for the dubious privilege of having the Glazers as owners.

[35thstreetswarm]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

 

How about you define what makes the best organization? You seem pretty bright and perceptive.

 

Have at it.

 

Am waiting with bated breath for your delineation, parameters or demarcation...since I'm sure there is universal agreement on every aspect of baseball operations here, and it's very much a consensus-oriented crowd at SoxTalk.

 

Just trying to spark a little baseball discussion on a Friday afternoon, it's not the Inquisition.

 

But please tell me who you think has the best organization and why. Okies?

 

Oh, come on, I'm just messing with you. OK - for the era of my fandom (roughly the last 25 years) I'd have to go with Braves and Cardinals in terms of sustained organizational excellence not propelled by outsized financial advantages. Twins and A's still have to be in there for results achieved vs. resources expended, despite recent down years.

 

The Yankees have it in terms of overall organizational cachet, of course, but I can't credit them much in recent years. Given the magnitude of their financial advantage I'm actually surprised they haven't won many more titles. I have to think rooting for the Yankees would be a joyless exercise - sort of like enrolling your 6'2 220 lb. 10th grader in a 7th grade wrestling league full of 115 pounders, then watching matches the from the stands knowing everyone else is rooting against him/you. When he loses it's a shock and disappointment. When he wins it's like "wow. great. congratulations. dick."

[Greg Hibbard]

Oh, come on, I'm just messing with you. OK - for the era of my fandom (roughly the last 25 years) I'd have to go with Braves and Cardinals in terms of sustained organizational excellence not propelled by outsized financial advantages. Twins and A's still have to be in there for results achieved vs. resources expended, despite recent down years.

 

The Yankees have it in terms of overall organizational cachet, of course, but I can't credit them much in recent years. Given the magnitude of their financial advantage I'm actually surprised they haven't won many more titles. I have to think rooting for the Yankees would be a joyless exercise - sort of like enrolling your 6'2 220 lb. 10th grader in a 7th grade wrestling league full of 115 pounders, then watching matches the from the stands knowing everyone else is rooting against him/you. When he loses it's a shock and disappointment. When he wins it's like "wow. great. congratulations. dick."

 

That's a terrible analogy.

 

Seven game series with teams aren't sure things by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The Yankees have made it as far as the LCS about half the time in the past 15 years. That's a remarkable clip, financial advantage or no. You still have to perform. Ask the 2010-11 Miami Heat.

[CrimsonWeltall]

What are the goals of an organization? To win championships and make money.

 

Yankees.

[southsider2k5]

That's a terrible analogy.

 

Seven game series with teams aren't sure things by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The Yankees have made it as far as the LCS about half the time in the past 15 years. That's a remarkable clip, financial advantage or no. You still have to perform. Ask the 2010-11 Miami Heat.

 

You mean the Heat who made it to the NBA finals?

[Greg Hibbard]

You mean the Heat who made it to the NBA finals?

 

And lost. Like the Yanks lost the 01 and 03 series.

 

That analogy makes it seem automatic

[daggins]

Despite never going the distance i'm always in awe of what the Rays have done since 08.

 

I put the Pirates for option two but i'd have voted for the BJs if they were in that group.

[TaylorStSox]

What are the goals of an organization? To win championships and make money.

 

Yankees.

This whole time I thought it was to win merit awards for overcoming low budgets.

[southsider2k5]

And lost. Like the Yanks lost the 01 and 03 series.

 

That analogy makes it seem automatic

 

After adding the two biggest free agents on the market. Funny how that works.

[Greg Hibbard]

After adding the two biggest free agents on the market. Funny how that works.

 

I'm not entirely sure what your argument is, here.

 

My argument:

 

1) 220 lb wrestlers beat 115 lb wrestlers 100% of the time.

2) No advantage in a seven game series is big enough in any major sport to guarantee that team will win.

3) therefore, the analogy sucks.

 

Also, the Yankees give themselves a big advantage, but they also make excellent personnel decisions that have little to do with that financial advantage.

 

I don't really understand how someone couldn't concede that that last point had SOMETHING to do with their success.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[wagner10]

I said the Cardinals and the Rangers (Buffalo Bills of baseball) as to whos got it now. I think Baltimore is building a nice little orgainization haha. But seriously Wieters and Jones are nice players and their pitching is pretty good and young too. I see them making some noise at the end of the year.

[southsider2k5]

I said the Cardinals and the Rangers (Buffalo Bills of baseball) as to whos got it now. I think Baltimore is building a nice little orgainization haha. But seriously Wieters and Jones are nice players and their pitching is pretty good and young too. I see them making some noise at the end of the year.

 

With their history since the 80's, they would be right around the top of my worst organizations list.