Best organization in baseball

[southsider2k5]

They've been able to channel their advantages to the tune of 27 world championships. 27! Somebody mentioned the Rangers earlier. They'd have to win every WS til 2025 to be in the discussion. I've heard of the Rangers before. They used to be called the Broncos.

 

The Rangers also play in a market a fraction of the size of NYC, and have revenues to match. The perfect example of the differences between Texas and NY? The ARod trade.

 

For my two cents, Atlanta would be the best organization in baseball. They have the best combination of production with limited resources of anyone in baseball. They are there every single year, despite not having $200 million to blow on payroll, or even $100 million. They have got 14 division titles, and 5 world series trips since 1990. Over the same span, the yankees have 13 division titles and 7 world series trips, despite spending something like $2 billion more in payroll alone.

[TaylorStSox]

The Rangers also play in a market a fraction of the size of NYC, and have revenues to match. The perfect example of the differences between Texas and NY? The ARod trade.

 

For my two cents, Atlanta would be the best organization in baseball. They have the best combination of production with limited resources of anyone in baseball. They are there every single year, despite not having $200 million to blow on payroll, or even $100 million. They have got 14 division titles, and 5 world series trips since 1990. Over the same span, the yankees have 13 division titles and 7 world series trips, despite spending something like $2 billion more in payroll alone.

You're dismissing the significance of the number 27. The Cardinals, Cubs, Red Sox and Dodgers also have enormous fan bases and potentially unlimited resources. Their accomplishments aren't even in the same stratosphere.

[caulfield12]

You're dismissing the significance of the number 27. The Cardinals, Cubs, Red Sox and Dodgers also have enormous fan bases and potentially unlimited resources. Their accomplishments aren't even in the same stratosphere.

 

 

But the Cardinals can't compete equally with those other teams when you factor in the local media market, corporations (Busch is now European-owned) and their average prices across the board because of that metropolitan area's average salary. It's another version of Kansas City, just 40-50% bigger.

[southsider2k5]

You're dismissing the significance of the number 27. The Cardinals, Cubs, Red Sox and Dodgers also have enormous fan bases and potentially unlimited resources. Their accomplishments aren't even in the same stratosphere.

 

No one else has the economic advantages of being the original New York City team. The Cardinals are a joke to have listed when you think about where St Louis is at both in terms of population and wealth. The Red Sox are the closest to the Yankees, because they are an original team, and they have the Boston market to themselves. The Cubs and Dodgers are sharing much smaller markets.

 

The truth is in the payrolls.

[TaylorStSox]

No one else has the economic advantages of being the original New York City team. The Cardinals are a joke to have listed when you think about where St Louis is at both in terms of population and wealth. The Red Sox are the closest to the Yankees, because they are an original team, and they have the Boston market to themselves. The Cubs and Dodgers are sharing much smaller markets.

 

The truth is in the payrolls.

The Cardinals own a significant part of the South and Midwest. I'd be willing to bet there are far more Cardinals fans in Illinois than White Sox.

[Greg Hibbard]

It has nothing to do with the product. It has everything to do with being the original New York City team, in the biggest market in the USA.

 

And yet the Dodgers and Giants both moved despite competing with the Yankees for that biggest market in the USA.

 

The Mets have the same biggest market in the USA and can't even come close.

 

The Cubs have a rabid fanbase, seemingly endless pockets, and the support of a syndicated television station that grew into a national phenomenon (well before the YES network) and they can't even win ONE title.

 

Let's take this example. In 1986, the Yankees were about to head to the doldrums and the Mets rose to the top of the world, literally. 25 years later, the Yankees rebuilt themselves to the tune of 5 more World Titles (including one over the Mets). Why? Because they had deep pockets but also made smart decisions. Like it or not, Jeter is a player out of their system, and 5 teams passed on him (including the 1st pick Astros, whose scout resigned over them passing on it) and they were responsible for grooming Rivera, as well - a "fringe prospect" when they found him. They made many, many smart personnel decisions. Guys like Mike Stanton.

 

I don't think people recall just how much of a joke the Yankees were from about 1988-1994. I was following baseball rabidly in this era (these were my JHS and HS years and I had nothing better to do). The Yanks were a joke - to the extent that they were joked about on the early Seinfeld episodes as being a joke. People treat the Yankees now like they were some self-fulfilling prophecy that occurred because OF COURSE THEY HAD TO. No, they spent money but did so wisely, as well. The Cubs did the same thing but have nothing to show for it - NOTHING.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[greg775]

If Jerry really wants two teams contracted and baseball agreed, there would be a lot of candidates from that list.

There are some teams not trying very hard right now. I'm afraid the Royals probably would be at the top of the contraction list.

[kitekrazy]

The past 2 decades I would probably go with the Cardinals.

[southsider2k5]

And yet the Dodgers and Giants both moved despite competing with the Yankees for that biggest market in the USA.

 

The Mets have the same biggest market in the USA and can't even come close.

 

The Cubs have a rabid fanbase, seemingly endless pockets, and the support of a syndicated television station that grew into a national phenomenon (well before the YES network) and they can't even win ONE title.

 

Let's take this example. In 1986, the Yankees were about to head to the doldrums and the Mets rose to the top of the world, literally. 25 years later, the Yankees rebuilt themselves to the tune of 5 more World Titles (including one over the Mets). Why? Because they had deep pockets but also made smart decisions. Like it or not, Jeter is a player out of their system, and 5 teams passed on him (including the 1st pick Astros, whose scout resigned over them passing on it) and they were responsible for grooming Rivera, as well - a "fringe prospect" when they found him. They made many, many smart personnel decisions. Guys like Mike Stanton.

 

I don't think people recall just how much of a joke the Yankees were from about 1988-1994. I was following baseball rabidly in this era (these were my JHS and HS years and I had nothing better to do). The Yanks were a joke - to the extent that they were joked about on the early Seinfeld episodes as being a joke. People treat the Yankees now like they were some self-fulfilling prophecy that occurred because OF COURSE THEY HAD TO. No, they spent money but did so wisely, as well. The Cubs did the same thing but have nothing to show for it - NOTHING.

 

The Mets aren't in the conversation because they don't generations of fans the way the Yankees do. They came about in the 60's.

 

Even when the Yankees were a "joke" they were still the highest revenue and most valuable team in all of baseball. On their worst day they have more opportunity than any other major league franchise on its best day. Those opportunities mean everything.

[TaylorStSox]

The Mets aren't in the conversation because they don't generations of fans the way the Yankees do. They came about in the 60's.

 

Even when the Yankees were a "joke" they were still the highest revenue and most valuable team in all of baseball. On their worst day they have more opportunity than any other major league franchise on its best day. Those opportunities mean everything.

True, and they've capitalized on those opportunities better than any other team in all of sports. 27.

[Greg Hibbard]

The Mets aren't in the conversation because they don't generations of fans the way the Yankees do. They came about in the 60's.

 

Even when the Yankees were a "joke" they were still the highest revenue and most valuable team in all of baseball. On their worst day they have more opportunity than any other major league franchise on its best day. Those opportunities mean everything.

 

What about Jeter, Rivera and Stanton? Just money, right? That's all it ever is? GMAFB.

[southsider2k5]

What about Jeter, Rivera and Stanton? Just money, right? That's all it ever is? GMAFB.

 

What about Arod, CC, Tex, Burnett, Soriano, Kuroda, Irabu, Giambi, etc? That is just scouting, right?

[southsider2k5]

True, and they've capitalized on those opportunities better than any other team in all of sports. 27.

 

No other team in US sports has those opportunities. Do you honestly think if the Braves had the Yankees resources, that the Yankees would still have 27 World Titles? Do you honestly think if the Yankees were in Pittsburgh, they would be doing what they have done?

[Greg Hibbard]

What about Arod, CC, Tex, Burnett, Soriano, Kuroda, Irabu, Giambi, etc? That is just scouting, right?

 

There's not a player that has had a greater impact on their championships than Mariano Rivera, and it's completely the result of the Yankee scouting and player development.

 

Giambi - no championships.

A-Rod - a contributing player to one championship.

Many others are contributing players to one or a couple of championships.

 

 

Rivera - 5 championships.

Jeter - 5 championships.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[southsider2k5]

There's not a player that has had a greater impact on their championships than Mariano Rivera, and it's completely the result of the Yankee scouting and player development.

 

Giambi - no championships.

A-Rod - a contributing player to one championship.

Many others are contributing players to one or a couple of championships.

 

 

Rivera - 5 championships.

Jeter - 5 championships.

 

A relief pitcher does not make a franchise the best in baseball. The ability to go out and buy talent to surround him with does. Even then, remember that Rivera wasn't drafted. He was signed as a free agent kid out of Latin America. It takes money to be able to do that.

[Steve9347]

Among the options offered, anyone voting anything but the Cardinals is completely nuts.

[TaylorStSox]

No other team in US sports has those opportunities. Do you honestly think if the Braves had the Yankees resources, that the Yankees would still have 27 World Titles? Do you honestly think if the Yankees were in Pittsburgh, they would be doing what they have done?

Combine the teams with next highest payrolls, their total WS titles don't match the Yankees. Face it, the Yankees are what all other teams aspire to be.

[southsider2k5]

Combine the teams with next highest payrolls, their total WS titles don't match the Yankees. Face it, the Yankees are what all other teams aspire to be.

 

Exactly. Every team would love to have their resources. They don't, so none win as often as the Yankees.

[TaylorStSox]

Exactly. Every team would love to have their resources. They don't, so none win as often as the Yankees.

Before the modern era, when payroll disparities weren't as significant, they still won 22.

[ScottyDo]

Why isn't this in Diamond Club? What's the Sox angle here?

[LittleHurt05]

Among the options offered, anyone voting anything but the Cardinals is completely nuts.

 

I concur, that was my vote.

[southsider2k5]

Before the modern era, when payroll disparities weren't as significant, they still won 22.

 

Payrolls have always played in a part in the Yankees dominance. Babe Ruth? Buying players from the A's in the 70's?

[Greg Hibbard]

Southsider, seriously, what's the point of discussion if you are going to set arbitrary guidelines to account for what you don't like about what the game of baseball has patently allowed since the beginning?

[Greg Hibbard]

The cubs have tried to do the same thing the Yankees did for years, so did the Red Sox. Combined, those teams have 2 championships in the past 1 million years.

[kitekrazy]

Before the modern era, when payroll disparities weren't as significant, they still won 22.

 

So true. They did pay $500K for Ruth though. I don't know how far the modern era would date back to but some of their great players in the 70s-80s were from trades.