Sox land Liriano

[The Ultimate Champion]

Coming into tonight, Escobar was hitting .159 with a .444 OPS against righties. That's not starting SS caliber unless he drastically improves. I do want to thank him for walking off the Brewers on that Sunday afternoon.

He's been sitting on the bench. And he's done a great job coming in ready to hit and hitting the ball hard and not just giving ABs away like Lillibridge did forever. In regular playing time he's going to be solid IMO. He certainly seems like a Gardenhire type of player all the way.

 

No matter how much Liriano has struggled, Terry Ryan isn't going to trade that kind of ability to his biggest rival unless he gets something he likes in return. Since it is impossible for anyone with two eyes to like Pedro Hernandez, it's pretty clear Escobar was the key to this trade. And nobody gives two s***s what Keith Law the desk jockey and his little buddies think about Escobar's future, the trade itself should pretty much show you that the Twins scouts like Escobar, and those are the only people who matter. If all Ryan could have gotten was salary absorption and a bench player out of the deal in a hot pitching market then he certainly could have found a taker outside of the AL Central.

 

This whole idea that all KW is doing is trading bags of balls is ridiculous. Most prospects don't work out, but for example, Zach Stewart was the key to the Scott Rolen deal, and then a key in a deal for Edwin Jackson which itself was key for the Colby Rasmus trade to go through, and then after that he's the key to the Youkilis deal. You have a former highly ranked prospect who had been drafted as a 3rd rounder and had been scouted and then traded for as a key piece by 3 other Major League organizations, all for very good players, but then Human Dunce Cap Lawrence Holmes gets on the radio and blabbers nonsense about how terrible he is and everyone laughs. Same with Escobar. No, actually Escobar is a nice little player and this deal is yet another in a long line that shows the value of defensive SS that teams believe can/will hit enough to stick.

[kitekrazy]

From Phil Rogers

 

Is the addition of Francisco Liriano a precursor to another trade by Ken Williams? The White Sox have been telling teams that Gavin Floyd is available, and it's possible that Floyd will be traded to Baltimore or elsewhere before the Monday deadline. For Liriano, the trade to the White Sox should be convenient, at the least. He was scheduled to pitch at Target Field on Sunday but instead will get a day to make the mental transition to a new team before the Sox arrive in Minnesota on Monday. Rookie Jose Quintana is set to start for the Sox in the opener, followed by Jake Peavy Tuesday. Robin Ventura could schedule Liriano to make his debut on Wednesday, as that would get two extra days' rest for Chris Sale, who would then be pushed back until Friday in Chicago against the Angels. This plan would allow for Don Cooper to work with Liriano in a side session on Monday. That makes sense. If the White Sox don't deal Floyd or another starter, they'll have to choose between a six-man rotation and moving a starter like Quintana or Humber to the bullpen. Interesting times, for sure.

 

http://sulia.com/channel/baseball/f/a7aae6...?source=twitter

 

This was a quote from a reader from a previous Rodger's article.

 

"Phil, the Rays are run by smart people, not sportswriters flipping baseball cards"

 

That is gold.

[kitekrazy]

Escobar isn't a big loss. His defense at the end of games will be missed when a PR is used for Paulie. Hudson will have to spell Youk, that's pretty scary, and I have no idea who the back up SS is. Maybe its Morel.

 

Maybe Beckham at SS, Hudson at 2B.

Morel 3B, Beckham SS, Hudson 2B.

 

Could they purchase the contract of Lllibridge?

There's also the waiver wire after the deadline.

 

[caulfield12]

Yep, he's in the Top 5 in AL k's/9

[kitekrazy]

Stan Bowman...take note, this is how you run a franchise.

 

Maybe JR need to run the Hawks then the Bears and finish his legacy for having a world championship for every Chicago team.

 

[Quin]

Maybe JR need to run the Hawks then the Bears and finish his legacy for having a world championship for every important Chicago team.

 

[Quin]

This was a quote from a reader from a previous Rodger's article.

 

"Phil, the Rays are run by smart people, not sportswriters flipping baseball cards"

 

That is gold.

 

[caulfield12]

It wasn't shocking that the Twins traded Francisco Liriano late Saturday night, just three days before the nonwaiver trade deadline. But it was surprising to see him land with the division rival Chicago White Sox.

 

The White Sox acquired Liriano for middle infielder Eduardo Escobar and lefthanded pitcher Pedro Hernandez, who are both heading to Class AAA Rochester for the Twins.

 

Liriano was scheduled to start Sunday's game against Cleveland for the Twins. Now, he will wait around the Twin Cities until the White Sox arrive at Target Field on Monday and likely will face the Twins in that three-game series.

 

"I'm not thrilled with trading him within the division, obviously," General Manager Terry Ryan said. "You guys know where we are in the standings."

 

Saturday night's 12-5 victory over Cleveland pulled the Twins out of last place for the first time since April 25.

 

Liriano, 28, is eligible for free agency after the season. Ryan said Liriano expressed interest in staying with the Twins, but the team did not offer the lefthander a contract extension.

 

"We didn't want to be left with nothing [if Liriano left as a free agent]," Ryan said.

 

Since making the All-Star team as a rookie in 2006, Liriano has had Tommy John reconstructive elbow surgery and gone through several ups and downs.

 

He is 50-52 for his career and 3-10 with a 5.31 ERA this year. Those numbers don't begin to tell the story, of course. He twirled a no-hitter on May 3, 2011 -- coincidentally, against the White Sox. In his third-to-last start for the Twins, Liriano racked up 15 strikeouts against Oakland, but Monday he gave up seven runs in 22/3 innings -- once again, against the White Sox.

 

"They know what they're getting, and I know what we're giving up," Ryan said.

 

As for what the Twins are getting in return, neither Hernandez nor Escobar profiles as an elite prospect.

 

Hernandez, 23, was traded to the White Sox from the Padres in December. A Venezuela native whose fastball generally sits in the 90-92-miles-per-hour range, Hernandez is 8-2 with a 2.94 ERA in 15 games combined this year between Class AA and Class AAA, including 14 starts.

 

He made his major league debut for the White Sox on July 18 and gave up eight runs in four innings at Boston's Fenway Park. The Twins believe Hernandez can become a full-time starter in the big leagues, but Ryan didn't want to say if he's a No. 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 starter.

 

"I'm not going to say that because I would have said that Scott Diamond's a potential number, and it wouldn't have been accurate," he said. "We'll let him make his own way. He has enough stuff. He's got a fastball, slider and a change. He throws a lot of strikes, which is good, but I'm not going to say he pitches to contact. He pitches to get outs."

 

Baseball America had Escobar ranked as Chicago's 10th-best prospect after the 2011 season, but the White Sox farm system is notoriously thin.

 

In 87 at-bats with the White Sox this season, Escobar hit .207 with no home runs. He went 2-for-5 with an RBI double in Chicago's 5-1 victory at Texas on Saturday night. He wasn't a regular for the White Sox, and the Twins view him as more than a utility infielder.

 

"He's a switch hitter who can run," Ryan said. "He's got tremendous energy. He's strong enough. He can play shortstop. He can play second. He doesn't really profile at third offensively, but he can play there. Defensively you wouldn't have any problem with any of the three."

 

 

startribune.com/sports

[caulfield12]

http://comments.startribune.com/comments.p...br=1&ipp=10

 

 

 

You can get a sampling of all the comments made by Twins' fans here.

 

Some are afraid of what Cooper might be able to accomplish with him, and how it will make Anderson and Gardy look incompetent.

 

 

 

Liriano, 28, has been a prominent member of the trade rumor circuit for several years now. He's eligible for free agency after the season and is owed approximately $2.1MM for the remainder of the year. Injuries and inconsistency have dogged the left-hander throughout his career, and this year he's pitched to a 5.31 ERA in exactly 100 innings.

 

The Twins originally acquired Liriano from the Giants as a minor leaguer as part of the A.J. Pierzynski-Joe Nathan swap back in 2003. He placed third in the Rookie of the Year voting in 2006 and earned Cy Young Award votes in 2010, but he's pitched to a 5.18 ERA in 234 1/3 innings since. Liriano went from the rotation to the bullpen and back to the rotation this year, posting a 3.68 ERA in 11 starts since becoming a starter again.

 

The White Sox are adding one of the game's premier strikeout pitchers to their staff with the trade. Even during his down years, Liriano has always missed bats and he owns a 9.8 K/9 this season. Walks are an issue however, especially of late. Over the last two years he's walked five hitters for every nine innings pitched. He figures to join Chris Sale and Jose Quintana to make three lefties in the ChiSox rotation.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[Vance Law]

No, actually Escobar is a nice little player and this deal is yet another in a long line that shows the value of defensive SS that teams believe can/will hit enough to stick.

 

He's a worthwhile defense first backup SS, but he was never going to start here over Ramirez, Beckham, Saladino.

[kitekrazy]

He's been sitting on the bench. And he's done a great job coming in ready to hit and hitting the ball hard and not just giving ABs away like Lillibridge did forever. In regular playing time he's going to be solid IMO. He certainly seems like a Gardenhire type of player all the way.

 

No matter how much Liriano has struggled, Terry Ryan isn't going to trade that kind of ability to his biggest rival unless he gets something he likes in return. Since it is impossible for anyone with two eyes to like Pedro Hernandez, it's pretty clear Escobar was the key to this trade. And nobody gives two s***s what Keith Law the desk jockey and his little buddies think about Escobar's future, the trade itself should pretty much show you that the Twins scouts like Escobar, and those are the only people who matter. If all Ryan could have gotten was salary absorption and a bench player out of the deal in a hot pitching market then he certainly could have found a taker outside of the AL Central.

 

This whole idea that all KW is doing is trading bags of balls is ridiculous. Most prospects don't work out, but for example, Zach Stewart was the key to the Scott Rolen deal, and then a key in a deal for Edwin Jackson which itself was key for the Colby Rasmus trade to go through, and then after that he's the key to the Youkilis deal. You have a former highly ranked prospect who had been drafted as a 3rd rounder and had been scouted and then traded for as a key piece by 3 other Major League organizations, all for very good players, but then Human Dunce Cap Lawrence Holmes gets on the radio and blabbers nonsense about how terrible he is and everyone laughs. Same with Escobar. No, actually Escobar is a nice little player and this deal is yet another in a long line that shows the value of defensive SS that teams believe can/will hit enough to stick.

 

They got something for nothing. I doubt they had plans of signing Liriano. The Twins are in budget mode and aren't going to spend money on players. Removing him puts them closer to a better pick. Look at it as something similar to the Edwin Jackson trade of 2012.

 

[caulfield12]

ARLINGTON, Texas -- The surprising Chicago White Sox have made a move to stay on top of the AL Central, acquiring left-hander Francisco Liriano from their division rival Minnesota Twins on Saturday night.

 

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...minnesota-twins (VIDEO with Sutcliffe and BOONE)

 

More From ESPN.com

The Chicago White Sox are taking a good risk in acquiring Francisco Liriano from the Minnesota Twins, writes Dave Schoenfield. Blog

 

• Foster: Sox bid Escobar farewell

• White Sox Blog | ESPN Chicago

 

 

The Twins will receive infielder Eduardo Escobar and lefty prospect Pedro Hernandez. The White Sox tweeted the news after the Twins beat the Cleveland Indians and Chicago won in Texas.

 

 

"He just has to come here and be solid," said Chicago first baseman Paul Konerko. "He doesn't have to throw shutouts. He just has to give us a chance to win. That's all we're looking for."

 

 

An All-Star in 2006, Liriano was expected to be one of the Twins' top starters before undergoing reconstructive elbow surgery later that same year. His career has since been plagued by inconsistency and injury.

 

 

He pitched a no-hitter last May 3 against the White Sox but was 9-10 with a 5.09 ERA for 2011.

 

 

This year Liriano struggled at the start and was demoted to the bullpen after his ERA rose to 9.45 in early May. He has brought that number down to 5.31 in 11 starts since his return to the rotation but still is 3-10 this season. He has walked 55 and struck out 109 -- including a 15 K game on July 13, a 6-3 loss.

 

 

In his most recent start, the White Sox tagged Liriano for seven runs in 2 2/3 innings on Monday.

 

 

"Hopefully the change of scenery will help," White Sox designated hitter Adam Dunn said. "If he'll buy in to what we're doing over here, he can get back to what we know he's capable of doing."

 

 

The 28-year-old Liriano is 50-52 with a 4.33 ERA in his career.

 

 

Liriano, scheduled to be a free agent after this season, adds depth to a rotation headed by All-Star left-hander Chris Sale, right-handers Jake Peavy and Philip Humber and lefty Jose Quintana, who is 4-1 with a 2.58 ERA filling in for injured John Danks.

 

 

Danks threw a bullpen session Friday, but there is no target date for his return.

 

 

Sale, who leads the White Sox with 12 wins, has already thrown a career-high 124 innings. First-year manager Robin Ventura said he may look to get the left-hander some extra rest later in the season.

 

 

Chicago has a 2½-game lead over the Detroit Tigers, the favorites to win the division.

 

 

"I think (White Sox GM) Kenny (Williams) is just trying to do everything he possibly can to make us better pitching-wise," said Ventura.

 

 

Twins general manager Terry Ryan said Liriano will stay in Minnesota until the White Sox arrive from Texas after Sunday's game. Both Escobar and Hernandez will go to Triple-A Rochester.

 

 

Brian Duensing will start for Minnesota Sunday in place of Liriano.

 

 

Escobar, 23, was hitting .207 (18 for 87) with four doubles and three RBIs in 36 games for the White Sox.

 

 

"It's a tough one team-wise," Ventura said. "(Escobar) is kind of like a little brother or a son to most guys. He's taking it hard. It's just part of baseball. It happens to a lot of people. It will make us better though."

 

 

Hernandez is also 23. He has split time at Double- and Triple-A this year, going 8-2 with a 2.94 ERA. He made his big league debut against Boston on July 18 and allowed eight runs in four innings.

Edited July 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...scobar-farewell

 

 

 

Kenny Williams never seems to get a lot of respect.

 

During his tenure as Chicago White Sox general manager, which began after the 2000 season, he's built two division winners, including the 2005 World Series champions. Maybe the most impressive aspect of his reign is that the White Sox are always competitive. They've been under .500 just three times, but two of those were 79-83. He's done this despite lacking the monster payrolls of teams such as the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies; despite only once having a pick better than 12th in the first round of the draft; despite never having a franchise superstar like Barry Bonds to build around or pitchers like Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, like Brian Sabean has had with the Giants; despite a farm system -- in part because of ownership's unwillingness to spend in the draft and because of that lack of high picks -- that usually ranks near the bottom (Keith Law and Baseball America both ranked the White Sox system 30th heading into the season).

 

What I like about Williams is he never gives up. He's always trying to win, to build the best team he can given his resources. He never craters, never commits to a complete teardown and embarrassing on-field product, such as the one you're seeing from the Astros, Williams' 2005 World Series opponents.

 

This is why trading for Francisco Liriano is a typical Kenny Williams move -- high risk, perhaps mocked, but one with a potential nice payoff. Liriano's season numbers with the Twins look terrible -- 3-10, 5.31 ERA -- and his last start (against the White Sox, of all teams) was a rough, seven-run blowup. But after an awful April and temporary trip to the bullpen, Liriano pitched very well in a 10-start stint from May 30 though July 18, posting a 2.84 ERA with 77 strikeouts, 28 walks and 38 hits in 63.1 innings (a .171 average allowed). That stretch included back-to-back starts of 15 strikeouts and 10 strikeouts against the A's and Orioles on July 13 and 18, respectively.

 

In other words, there's a good chance Liriano will outpitch Zack Greinke the rest of the way, even though this trade will receive much less fanfare and required much less in prospect value: light-hitting infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-handed pitcher Pedro Hernandez.

 

In fact, despite the much-maligned farm system, the White Sox have received contributions from several rookies, most notably on the pitching staff with Jose Quintana, closer Addison Reed, and relievers Nate Jones and Hector Santiago. With Quintana still the big surprise in the rotation, Liriano presumably takes the place of Philip Humber, who did pitch well in a 5-2 victory over the Rangers on Saturday, but that strong start barely got his ERA under 6.00. With the hope that John Danks might return from his shoulder issues, the White Sox now have rotation depth and options in case of injury or if they want to conserve Chris Sale's innings.

 

The White Sox also have a lot to gain from a deal such as this; with a 2.5-game lead over the Tigers, winning the division title is obviously huge. There is a reason you're seeing teams contending for a division title making moves, while teams further back in the playoff chase -- such as the American League East wild-card contenders -- are more conservative. The reward for winning one of the two wild cards is essentially half as valuable as last season, with the one-game playoff plus the possibility that you've burned your best pitcher. But the payoff for the White Sox winning the division is worth taking a chance on Liriano.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

What they are saying on the other side.

 

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=746977

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...&tid=116193

 

http://www.twinkietown.com/2012/7/29/31994...aguers#comments

 

http://comments.startribune.com/comments.p...p;comments=true

 

http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/28/twins-t...e-sox/#comments

 

http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?2513-White-Sox-get-Liriano Most activity here.

[kitekrazy]

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...scobar-farewell

 

 

 

Kenny Williams never seems to get a lot of respect.

 

During his tenure as Chicago White Sox general manager, which began after the 2000 season, he's built two division winners, including the 2005 World Series champions. Maybe the most impressive aspect of his reign is that the White Sox are always competitive. They've been under .500 just three times, but two of those were 79-83. He's done this despite lacking the monster payrolls of teams such as the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies; despite only once having a pick better than 12th in the first round of the draft; despite never having a franchise superstar like Barry Bonds to build around or pitchers like Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, like Brian Sabean has had with the Giants; despite a farm system -- in part because of ownership's unwillingness to spend in the draft and because of that lack of high picks -- that usually ranks near the bottom (Keith Law and Baseball America both ranked the White Sox system 30th heading into the season).

 

What I like about Williams is he never gives up. He's always trying to win, to build the best team he can given his resources. He never craters, never commits to a complete teardown and embarrassing on-field product, such as the one you're seeing from the Astros, Williams' 2005 World Series opponents.

 

This is why trading for Francisco Liriano is a typical Kenny Williams move -- high risk, perhaps mocked, but one with a potential nice payoff. Liriano's season numbers with the Twins look terrible -- 3-10, 5.31 ERA -- and his last start (against the White Sox, of all teams) was a rough, seven-run blowup. But after an awful April and temporary trip to the bullpen, Liriano pitched very well in a 10-start stint from May 30 though July 18, posting a 2.84 ERA with 77 strikeouts, 28 walks and 38 hits in 63.1 innings (a .171 average allowed). That stretch included back-to-back starts of 15 strikeouts and 10 strikeouts against the A's and Orioles on July 13 and 18, respectively.

 

In other words, there's a good chance Liriano will outpitch Zack Greinke the rest of the way, even though this trade will receive much less fanfare and required much less in prospect value: light-hitting infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-handed pitcher Pedro Hernandez.

 

In fact, despite the much-maligned farm system, the White Sox have received contributions from several rookies, most notably on the pitching staff with Jose Quintana, closer Addison Reed, and relievers Nate Jones and Hector Santiago. With Quintana still the big surprise in the rotation, Liriano presumably takes the place of Philip Humber, who did pitch well in a 5-2 victory over the Rangers on Saturday, but that strong start barely got his ERA under 6.00. With the hope that John Danks might return from his shoulder issues, the White Sox now have rotation depth and options in case of injury or if they want to conserve Chris Sale's innings.

 

The White Sox also have a lot to gain from a deal such as this; with a 2.5-game lead over the Tigers, winning the division title is obviously huge. There is a reason you're seeing teams contending for a division title making moves, while teams further back in the playoff chase -- such as the American League East wild-card contenders -- are more conservative. The reward for winning one of the two wild cards is essentially half as valuable as last season, with the one-game playoff plus the possibility that you've burned your best pitcher. But the payoff for the White Sox winning the division is worth taking a chance on Liriano.

 

It is possible that we could be getting another mental midget. If they stick with a 5 man rotation this could mean some competition and maybe Liriano of Humber get better because of it. Trading Floyd would be stupid. They should plan on Danks returning in 2013. Maybe a GM would offer more than value for Thornton. If not wait for the waiver wire.

Edited July 29, 2012 by kitekrazy

[hi8is]

Robin Ventura could schedule Liriano to make his debut on Wednesday, as that would get two extra days' rest for Chris Sale, who would then be pushed back until Friday in Chicago against the Angels.

Amen to that Brotha

 

[Benchwarmerjim]

when Liriano is locked in, he is as good as any '#1 starter' in the league. That 3-10 record is a bit deceiving because there was a time where he gave up 5 runs in 2 games and took losses even through he had roughly (not exaggerating) 50 swing and misses.

 

He doesnt throw 95 anymore, more like 92-93 with a changeup that have movement and his slider still have bite. But what happens (and its so frustrating to watch) is that he gets all goofy with his mechanics and fly open, then who knows where the ball is going. If Don Cooper can get him to stop doing that, well you won the trade. Otherwise the balls get left up and balls leave the ballpark

[Brian]

Lots happen recently while I have slept/napped. Bears sign Forte and now this.

 

Probably been posted but wouldn't be surprised if Floyd is moved before MOnday. Probably not for much but to get him outta here and create space.

[Real]

Lots happen recently while I have slept/napped. Bears sign Forte and now this.

 

Probably been posted but wouldn't be surprised if Floyd is moved before MOnday. Probably not for much but to get him outta here and create space.

 

if they're planning on moving Floyd, does he still start tonight? that's the question

[Springfield Soxfan]

Stan Bowman...take note, this is how you run a franchise.

Amen, on this. We can debate in another forum, this is right on. Great post.

[Brian]

I'm no hockey guy but didn't the Blackhawks win the Cup with Stan Bowman on staff?

[Caesar]

Great pickup. Gave up next to nothing. I have a feeling Liriano will out perform Grienke the rest of the year. I'm so glad they didn't trade for him. Blessing in disguise.

[Princess Dye]

Lots happen recently while I have slept/napped. Bears sign Forte and now this.

That sounds like a long nap

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Lots happen recently while I have slept/napped. Bears sign Forte and now this.

 

Probably been posted but wouldn't be surprised if Floyd is moved before MOnday. Probably not for much but to get him outta here and create space.

Trading Floyd defeats the main purpose of getting Liriano which is the much needed resting of Sale/Peavy/Quintana. All might have issues with stamina and as we saw last start with Sale possibly a dead arm period as they adjust to career highs in innings pitched or many innings pitched after an injury with Peavy. Remember we have plans for the post season which means those guys will have to pitch even more.

[Dick Allen]

Trading Floyd defeats the main purpose of getting Liriano which is the much needed resting of Sale/Peavy/Quintana. All might have issues with stamina and as we saw last start with Sale possibly a dead arm period as they adjust to career highs in innings pitched or many innings pitched after an injury with Peavy. Remember we have plans for the post season which means those guys will have to pitch even more.

Exactly.