winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 as this season twists and turns, surges and stalls, one positive today is the absolutely incredible season Jeremy Reed is having at Birmingham. Dude went 4 for 4 last night. Three singles and a triple. Drew a walk. scored two runs drove in three stole a base. He's closing in on 200 at bats in AA after his ridiculous start at Winston Salem and he's now hitting .415. That is just sick. I'm not advocating a call to the big leagues. Rather see him develop all his skills and play in the Arizona Fall League. Give him a chance to make the club next March. But this guy is as exciting an offensive prospect as the Sox have had since Magglio. Plus, he's a left-handed hitter who can play multiple outfield spots. Sox took some hits for drafting him in the second round last year, but the scout who recommended him deserves major kudos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Looks like Everet and Lee might be gone over thw winter. If this guy's making the club, there's CF and BOrchard will probably be up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 STOP the assenine talk of C LEE being gone! 1) KW had no problem signing him to a 6mil deal for the past 2 yrs. C LEE has never shown to be greedy. KW should be able to sign him to 15mil/3 yr. 2) He leads the team in RBI : 84 better than 10% more than Maggs. 3) He's 2nd on the team in R : 73. 3 shy of Maggs. 4) He's 2nd on the team in TB: 22 shy of Maggs. 5th) He's ranked 38th in RPG (Sagarin) in the AL. Maggs is ranked 9th. I mention this because C LEE still has what I call sleeper stats at non marquee prices. This gives KW leverage to keep Lee's price down but still hold on to the promise that Lee has. Now I don't know what price Everett will command. FA can expect to be worse than last yr because of depressed revenue. There will be far fewer players in the $$$ game this off-season. But I will put it this way: Lee at 15/3 is a keeper. Everett at 15/3 is a keeper. Maggs at 15/1 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. Konerko at 24/3 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Why would Lee ask for 15/3, when he's already making 5 million this year? Everett won't be with the club next year, and if C Lee asks for anything over 8, forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Jugger, how is Konerko tradeable? Who who take him at that rediculous salary? And how would lyou renegotiate his salary? I mean, he is flat guaranteed $16 MM over the next two years. I don't think he will volunteer to take a pay cut. Please explain your thoughts on Konerko. Tks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 can't see any way the Sox will be able to keep Lee Everett Maggs Konerko Frank Robbie Alomar and Valentin in 2004. (not advocating keeping Jose, but Sox SS options are extremely limited unless a Martian kidnaps Tejada and brings him here.) no way they spend that kind of money. JR loves those guys in the first three years that he can pay peanuts. The more at the minimum, the better. He's got Crede, Olivo, Harris. He'll try to supplement that with one or two from this group: Reed Hummel Borchard Miles. Even if this team gets it back together and wins, a few of the guys on this team will be gone. Somebody would take a chance on Konerko. His salary is high, but not outrageous. And he did average nearly 100 RBIs from 2000-02. I'm sure some GM will figure he can get him cheap because his value is diminished. He'd look good at first base for Baltimore or maybe even the Angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Why would Lee ask for 15/3, when he's already making 5 million this year? Everett won't be with the club next year, and if C Lee asks for anything over 8, forget it. He's making 4.2mil this yr based on his 2000+2001 #'s: 182 R, 176RBI His 2002+2003 #'s: 155 R, 164RBI His AL RPG ranking in those yrs: 2K3: 38 2K2: 25 2K1: 45 2K0: 41 He hasn't had a stellar year to command the big bucks. He should be signable for 15-16/3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 STOP the assenine talk of C LEE being gone! 1) KW had no problem signing him to a 6mil deal for the past 2 yrs. C LEE has never shown to be greedy. KW should be able to sign him to 15mil/3 yr. 2) He leads the team in RBI : 84 better than 10% more than Maggs. 3) He's 2nd on the team in R : 73. 3 shy of Maggs. 4) He's 2nd on the team in TB: 22 shy of Maggs. 5th) He's ranked 38th in RPG (Sagarin) in the AL. Maggs is ranked 9th. I mention this because C LEE still has what I call sleeper stats at non marquee prices. This gives KW leverage to keep Lee's price down but still hold on to the promise that Lee has. Now I don't know what price Everett will command. FA can expect to be worse than last yr because of depressed revenue. There will be far fewer players in the $$$ game this off-season. But I will put it this way: Lee at 15/3 is a keeper. Everett at 15/3 is a keeper. Maggs at 15/1 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. Konerko at 24/3 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. JR doesn't renegotiate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 STOP the assenine talk of C LEE being gone! 1) KW had no problem signing him to a 6mil deal for the past 2 yrs. C LEE has never shown to be greedy. KW should be able to sign him to 15mil/3 yr. 2) He leads the team in RBI : 84 better than 10% more than Maggs. 3) He's 2nd on the team in R : 73. 3 shy of Maggs. 4) He's 2nd on the team in TB: 22 shy of Maggs. 5th) He's ranked 38th in RPG (Sagarin) in the AL. Maggs is ranked 9th. I mention this because C LEE still has what I call sleeper stats at non marquee prices. This gives KW leverage to keep Lee's price down but still hold on to the promise that Lee has. Now I don't know what price Everett will command. FA can expect to be worse than last yr because of depressed revenue. There will be far fewer players in the $$$ game this off-season. But I will put it this way: Lee at 15/3 is a keeper. Everett at 15/3 is a keeper. Maggs at 15/1 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. Konerko at 24/3 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. KW had no problem signing Lee to an extention? Well he didnt have a problem signing Fould to a deal either only to trade him the very next year. And Everet and Lee are keepers, but Maggs is tradeable??????????? Better watch how you use the word "assenine" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 And Everet and Lee are keepers, but Maggs is tradeable??????????? Better watch how you use the word "assenine" Yeah really. This guy is nuts to think Lee is more valuable than Maggs. The funny thing is that he used Maggs as a comparison to Lee to make him look good and then he calls Maggs tradable. I don't get it. As for Lee's RBI numbers being so high, it's because he's had good hitters in front of him most of the year. Maggs and Frank didn't have good 1 and 2 hitters on base to get them RBI opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 STOP the assenine talk of C LEE being gone! 1) KW had no problem signing him to a 6mil deal for the past 2 yrs. C LEE has never shown to be greedy. KW should be able to sign him to 15mil/3 yr. 2) He leads the team in RBI : 84 better than 10% more than Maggs. 3) He's 2nd on the team in R : 73. 3 shy of Maggs. 4) He's 2nd on the team in TB: 22 shy of Maggs. 5th) He's ranked 38th in RPG (Sagarin) in the AL. Maggs is ranked 9th. I mention this because C LEE still has what I call sleeper stats at non marquee prices. This gives KW leverage to keep Lee's price down but still hold on to the promise that Lee has. Now I don't know what price Everett will command. FA can expect to be worse than last yr because of depressed revenue. There will be far fewer players in the $$$ game this off-season. But I will put it this way: Lee at 15/3 is a keeper. Everett at 15/3 is a keeper. Maggs at 15/1 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. Konerko at 24/3 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. KW had no problem signing Lee to an extention? Well he didnt have a problem signing Fould to a deal either only to trade him the very next year. And Everet and Lee are keepers, but Maggs is tradeable??????????? Better watch how you use the word "assenine" Paying Maggs 15MIL on a team with a 55MIL payroll is assenine. Since the SOX showed no willingness to pay $$$ for Alomar or Everett this year, I think it's clear that the team will once again open 2004 with a 60MIL cap. Allocating 25+% of that cap to Maggs is assenine. Are these the stats of a 15MIL player? Apr : 849 OPS May : 855 OPS Jun : 899 OPS Jul : 1245 OPS Aug : 839 OPS Not in my book. Here's Manny Ramirez' #'s: Apr : 981 OPS May : 925 OPS Jun : 1139 OPS Jul : 1113 OPS Aug : 891 OPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 STOP the assenine talk of C LEE being gone! 1) KW had no problem signing him to a 6mil deal for the past 2 yrs. C LEE has never shown to be greedy. KW should be able to sign him to 15mil/3 yr. 2) He leads the team in RBI : 84 better than 10% more than Maggs. 3) He's 2nd on the team in R : 73. 3 shy of Maggs. 4) He's 2nd on the team in TB: 22 shy of Maggs. 5th) He's ranked 38th in RPG (Sagarin) in the AL. Maggs is ranked 9th. I mention this because C LEE still has what I call sleeper stats at non marquee prices. This gives KW leverage to keep Lee's price down but still hold on to the promise that Lee has. Now I don't know what price Everett will command. FA can expect to be worse than last yr because of depressed revenue. There will be far fewer players in the $$$ game this off-season. But I will put it this way: Lee at 15/3 is a keeper. Everett at 15/3 is a keeper. Maggs at 15/1 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. Konerko at 24/3 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. KW had no problem signing Lee to an extention? Well he didnt have a problem signing Fould to a deal either only to trade him the very next year. And Everet and Lee are keepers, but Maggs is tradeable??????????? Better watch how you use the word "assenine" Paying Maggs 15MIL on a team with a 55MIL payroll is assenine. Since the SOX showed no willingness to pay $$$ for Alomar or Everett this year, I think it's clear that the team will once again open 2004 with a 60MIL cap. Allocating 25+% of that cap to Maggs is assenine. Are these the stats of a 15MIL player? Apr : 849 OPS May : 855 OPS Jun : 899 OPS Jul : 1245 OPS Aug : 839 OPS Not in my book. Here's Manny Ramirez' #'s: Apr : 981 OPS May : 925 OPS Jun : 1139 OPS Jul : 1113 OPS Aug : 891 OPS Please stop throwing around stats like you know what you're talking about. Anyways, it's asinine, not assenine or whatever. Magg's cumulative stats: .320-22-75 OBP .386 SLG .561 OPS .947 Plays a solid right field, only average speed which makes him a 4 tool hitter. Advances runner from 2nd, no outs to 3rd a goo percentage of the time. Zone rating is 91%, range factor is 2.36 -- Now, let's look at Manny: .318-29-85 OBP .418 SLG .576 OPS .994 Fairly similar numbers, but Ramirez is just plain AWFUL in left. No speed whatsoever. Zone rating is a retchid 78%, RF is 1.79. Ramirez is paid 20 million dollars a year to hit in a loaded lineup, and Maggs will be paid 14 million to play a solid all-around game. Ordonez is the better player, hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 No matter what the numbers show, Maggs is probably the best Right Fielder in the major leagues, as well as a fan favorite. He is a franchise player, and to say that he's not worth that kind of money is just plain wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 No matter what the numbers show, Maggs is probably the best Right Fielder in the major leagues, as well as a fan favorite. He is a franchise player, and to say that he's not worth that kind of money is just plain wrong. Ichiro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Sox are not getting ichiro they have maggs. They can -- and should -- keep him. What they MUST do is surround him with more guys who can run and get on base, especially at the top of the batting order. biggest problem this team has offensively is too many guys who clog the bases and can only go station to station -- Konerko, Thomas, S. Alomar, Daubach, Crede and sometimes Lee. The result? Lots of three hit innings that result in the bases loaded and no outs. Then we either get one run on a DP grounder or no runs after a pop out and DP grounder. We've all seen it 8 million times. Also, too reliant on the home run. Put a quality leadoff or number two hitter in front of Maggs and watch what happens. Maybe Reed can be one of those guys. and he'll make the minimum, a huge factor considering the track record of management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 He's making 4.2mil this yr based on his 2000+2001 #'s: 182 R, 176RBI His 2002+2003 #'s: 155 R, 164RBI His AL RPG ranking in those yrs: 2K3: 38 2K2: 25 2K1: 45 2K0: 41 He hasn't had a stellar year to command the big bucks. He should be signable for 15-16/3. I agree with you. Economics of a few years ago are much different then they are now. I don't think Everett will be back, thats almost a guarantee. I also kind of think one of Thomas/Konerko will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 one of the two needs to be gone. need to break up the right-handed, lead-leg nature of the lineup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 one of the two needs to be gone. need to break up the right-handed, lead-leg nature of the lineup I'd think that the easiest to dump would be Frank Thomas, especially if he opts out of his contract or neither team accepts the option. I'd have to think if Frank puts the pressure on the Sox to accept the option, then Frank won't be a White Sox. He hit his milestone 2000th hit and 400th homer with the Sox and thats going to be it unless he's willing to realize he's no longer a 3 hole hitter and is willing to be in the 5 hole. If thats the case then you'd send Paul Konerko elsewhere (As both Paulie and Thomas are classic 5 hole hitters). The flaw with that is the Sox now have a need in the 3 hole, which could be filled by Miguel Tejada (Who could also go to the 4hole with Maggs in the 3 hole or even Carlos Lee there) with Reed and someone else at the top of the order. Then in the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th slots you have a mix of Crede, (Our DH), Olivo, and whoever is playing in the infield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 totally agree We all know JR isn't going to bend. Actually, I think Frank is going to have to finish strongly to have any chance to return next season. Fans were already softened to the idea that he might leave last winter. They'd take a minor PR hit, but we know from watching the Bulls that JR doesn't let sentiment sway his decisions. If he let Phil Jackson, Michael and Pippen walk after six NBA titles, he's not going to lose a second of sleep if Frank leaves after two (or three) division titles. You figure Lee would be moved to DH and Rowand moved into left field. In the grand plan, I'm sure the Sox hoped Borchard would have been ready by now, but his performance his season has been a major step backwards. Whatever happens, it will be an extremely interesting off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I can't believe that he is still as hot as he is. I just hope he doesn't end up like Gregg Jeffries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 you never know until they get to The Show. but I can't remember a player in the Sox system who has hit the ball this well this long at this level. And to hit better in Birmingham than he did in Winston Salem, is off the charts. I check the boxes regularly and if he doesn't have a couple of hits, a run scored and a stolen base, I'm surprised. If he was in the Yankees, Braves, Red Sox or Cubs farm systems, Baseball America would be putting out extra editions about him. He didn't even make their Top Prospect Top 12 until he'd been hitting .400 at Birmingham for nearly 100 abs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 you never know until they get to The Show. but I can't remember a player in the Sox system who has hit the ball this well this long at this level. And to hit better in Birmingham than he did in Winston Salem, is off the charts. I check the boxes regularly and if he doesn't have a couple of hits, a run scored and a stolen base, I'm surprised. If he was in the Yankees, Braves, Red Sox or Cubs farm systems, Baseball America would be putting out extra editions about him. He didn't even make their Top Prospect Top 12 until he'd been hitting .400 at Birmingham for nearly 100 abs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Jason and WUgly83; Re Frank, if I understand that option correctly, Frank has the first option, and I don't thiink he will move if there isn't some team out there willing to take him on at better terms than he now has, and who would that team possibly be?? There isn't any. No (other) GM is dumb enough to take him for 3-4 years, especially if he doesn't snap out of the current slump. If Frank is still alive, he will be with us in 2004. Pls correct me if I am wrong on his option. Re Jeremy Reed, one of the Carl/Carlos twins has to go next year. We have to have room for Reed to step in and take over one of the outfield positions. With the two slowpokes cluttering up the 1B/DH positions for at least the next two years, I don't see any alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Jason and WUgly83; Re Frank, if I understand that option correctly, Frank has the first option, and I don't thiink he will move if there isn't some team out there willing to take him on at better terms than he now has, and who would that team possibly be?? There isn't any. No (other) GM is dumb enough to take him for 3-4 years, especially if he doesn't snap out of the current slump. If Frank is still alive, he will be with us in 2004. Pls correct me if I am wrong on his option. Re Jeremy Reed, one of the Carl/Carlos twins has to go next year. We have to have room for Reed to step in and take over one of the outfield positions. With the two slowpokes cluttering up the 1B/DH positions for at least the next two years, I don't see any alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 good to see I'm not the only one who hit the reload button. I believe you are correct about Frank's contract. He holds the cards this year, then the Sox are in control. I also don't believe there is another team willing to take him -- and his contract -- on. By process of elimination, you can throw out the NL teams because he can't play first base on a daily basis. In the AL, Detroit, KC, Minny, Cleveland, Texas, Tampa, Toronto, Oakland are not going to spend the money. At least not on him -- at the price he would want. Yankees don't need him. Neither does Boston. Those are the two teams that could most afford him. Baltimore is an outside chance, but they haven't been spending a ton of money. And they didn't seem real interested last winter, when they were in worse shape. I guess Seattle might look at him if Edgar retires, but I doubt Gillick would bite. Anaheim? Scioscia is too smart for that move. So, where does Frank go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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