Eminor3rd Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/k...-chicken-salad/ Nothing you don't already know, but nice to see some praise from well-respected, neutral minds. There might not be a harder to evaluate GM in sports than Kenny Williams. Since 2006, his teams have alternated between winning and losing seasons each year, so his team’s recent performance track record is a mixed bag. At the same time, his farm system is universally considered the worst in baseball, and the team has not drafted well or developed any international talent, and as such, the White Sox have had to rely on aging veterans to keep the team in contention. This is generally not a great roster construction strategy. However, Williams has the White Sox winning again this year, and it’s due in large part to one aspect of the game that he seems to be exceptionally good at — grabbing good players from other teams at the absolute nadir of their value. Or, to borrow from an old cliche, Kenny Williams seems to be better than anyone else at turning chicken $&*# into chicken salad. Look at this White Sox roster. Their best position player has been Alex Rios, who has raced up +2.9 WAR and is probably going to finish the year as a 20-20 outfielder. Williams claimed Rios off waivers in 2009, just a year and a half into a 7 year, $70 million extension that Toronto gave him and then immediately regretted. Rios has had his ups and downs in Chicago as well, but he’s currently one of the more productive right fielders in baseball, and Williams got him for nothing more a willingness to take on the remainder of his salary. He did nearly the same thing with Jake Peavy, who was acquired from the Padres for a pu-pu platter of pitching prospects, the best of whom has turned out to be Clayton Richard. Again, he was able to acquire a talented player without sacrificing talent by absorbing the remainder of a large contract, as Peavy had three years and $52 million left on the extension San Diego had granted him a few years earlier. Peavy’s at +3.4 WAR this year, and his success is one of the main reasons the White Sox are contending. Then, a month ago, Williams pulled off an even better trick, acquiring Kevin Youkilis from the White Sox for Brent Lillibridge and Zach Stewart — a couple of bit pieces that the team didn’t need — while getting Boston to pay all but $2 million of the remainder of Youkilis’ contract. In this deal, he filled a gaping hole at third base without surrendering talent or taking on money. He basically just saw an opportunity to get a formerly good player for free and took it. And now, over the weekend, Williams picked up Liriano from the Twins in the pitching version of the Youkilis deal, only this one may be his best yet. While Liriano was horrible early in the season, he’d already turned back into a good player even before Williams acquired him, posting a 2.7 K/BB ratio over 11 starts since moving back into the rotation on May 30th. Usually, Williams bets on the player returning to prior form after getting to Chicago, but in this case, Liriano has already gotten good again, and yet the White Sox still got him for a couple of marginal prospects and no long term commitment in salary. Rios, Peavy, Youkilis, and Liriano were all unwanted by their previous employers, and Williams used those situations to add talent to his roster without giving up any in return. These kinds of acquisitions aren’t risk free — Rios was terrible last year while Peavy spent good sized chunks of 2010 and 2011 on the DL — but they are moves that have propelled the White Sox into the top spot in the AL Central despite Williams having fewer chips to deal with than anyone else in baseball. When we talk about dumpster diving, we usually think about Billy Beane or Andrew Friedman looking for some kind of undervalued asset in the International League and turning them into a useful role player. But, in reality, Kenny Williams might just be the master of the dumpster dive, as he keeps going into other team’s discard piles and coming away with quality players simply by buying low on guys who have track records that suggest better things could be in store going forward. There’s probably no GM in baseball that operates under the “buy low” mantra more than Williams, and his willingness to take risks on guys who aren’t performing up to their established standards has allowed him to once again put a winning team on the field. It’s an unconventional approach, but right now, Williams looks like something of a genius. In Youkilis and Liriano, he’s made two significant upgrades without giving up any talent or taking on any real money. No GM is going to do more to help his franchise this summer than what Williams has done for the White Sox. By being aggressive in taking on unwanted talent, Williams really has turned out a delicious batch of chicken salad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Funny how he did not note contributions from Reed, Jones, and Quintana, who have combined for nearly 3 WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's obvious but it's true. When was the last time Kenny has bought high on a guy through trade or free agency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've always like KW because he works well under the restrictions he's given. He hasn't had any draft budget and poor draft position, yet the Sox have produced a good number of MLB players, though no real stars. Even when he has been given money in FA, the Sox aren't considered an appealing destination for star players. So, he buys low on high upside guys. He, along with Coop, have a great philosophy and knack for identifying pitching. KW's not the best GM, but he's damn good at understanding his limitations and working around them. Also, he's not a p****. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) Funny how he did not note contributions from Reed, Jones, and Quintana, who have combined for nearly 3 WAR. That article kinda sucked. How he can say we're getting zero contributions from the farm (Sale, Jones, etc etc) and Internationally (Ramirez, Viciedo) is beyond me. Dude needs to do his homework instead of just churning out a timely "let's all suck KW's dick" article. Love me some KW, and he's definitely on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 04:32 PM) That article kinda sucked. How he can say we're getting zero contributions from the farm (Sale, Jones, etc etc) and Internationally (Ramirez, Viciedo) is beyond me. Dude needs to do his homework instead of just churning out a timely "let's all suck KW's dick" article. Love me some KW, and he's definitely on fire. Yeah, not sure how you can write that article with a straight face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 No talk about young players that ARE successful, especially Q who was the ultimate dumpster dive. No talk of Myers either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 04:32 PM) That article kinda sucked. How he can say we're getting zero contributions from the farm (Sale, Jones, etc etc) If you go right from Sale down to Jones, then that in and of itself shows how minimally the farm system has been producing. Jones has not done a ton yet. Teams that rely on their own homegrown talent being in their own uniforms eventually do have far better talent than this current White Sox organization, so Cameron's point is valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 04:15 PM) It's obvious but it's true. When was the last time Kenny has bought high on a guy through trade or free agency? Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 04:42 PM) If you go right from Sale down to Jones, then that in and of itself shows how minimally the farm system has been producing. Jones has not done a ton yet. Teams that rely on their own homegrown talent being in their own uniforms eventually do have far better talent than this current White Sox organization, so Cameron's point is valid. Except it isnt only Sale to Jones. Reed, Axelrod, Septimo, Santiago have all made major contributions to the team. I guess you could consider Quintana as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 04:42 PM) If you go right from Sale down to Jones, then that in and of itself shows how minimally the farm system has been producing. Jones has not done a ton yet. Teams that rely on their own homegrown talent being in their own uniforms eventually do have far better talent than this current White Sox organization, so Cameron's point is valid. I didn't want to have to type all of the rookies/homegrown talent. Any Sox fan knows them and this is a Sox board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 04:44 PM) Dunn I wouldn't consider that buying high. He was paid half as much as a Werth or Reyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) I wouldn't consider that buying high. He was paid half as much as a Werth or Reyes. $56 Million and a number 1 pick for a DH is high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 04:15 PM) It's obvious but it's true. When was the last time Kenny has bought high on a guy through trade or free agency? Nick Swisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) We didn't buy high on Dunn. We didn't get him after he played considerably better than previous years, and his salary is consistent with the numbers he put up in previous years. Edited July 30, 2012 by thxfrthmmrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Imagine how bad this team could have been if JR went totally cheap. Beckham, Morel, Flowers. Imagine them at the end of the order. That's when the bathrooms and concessions get crowded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 05:23 PM) $56 Million and a number 1 pick for a DH is high. Except he's leading the league in Homeruns, 4th in RBI's, 1st in Walks. Adam Dunn is still "high" because the term "buying high" implies the player had an immediate decline after purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) That article kinda sucked. How he can say we're getting zero contributions from the farm (Sale, Jones, etc etc) and Internationally (Ramirez, Viciedo) is beyond me. Dude needs to do his homework instead of just churning out a timely "let's all suck KW's dick" article. Love me some KW, and he's definitely on fire. Haha....this is one of those I can call my dad an asshole, but you sure can't! kind of things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 05:26 PM) Nick Swisher Swisher is interesting, but I wouldn't consider buying high . We got Swisher after a year he hit 13 less home runs and had less RBI's than the previous year in Oakland. I think his value was higher the year before got him. I think when we got him, we was actually hoping he would rediscover his power in his 35 HR season and hit 40 HRs at the Cell. The package we put together for him wasn't exactly overwhelming either, considering the numbers he put up before and after the Sox days. Sweeney was a only decent prospect, and few people thought Gio was capable of pitching at this level at the time of the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Quotes from Rosenbloom's latest. Interestingly, White Sox general manager Ken Williams has no money and allegedly no prospects, but he seems to come up with young players that other teams identify as prospects. He comes up with deals. Williams traded for Kevin Youkilis to create the kind of big-boy lineup required in the American League, then Brett Myers to add a veteran set-up man/closer, and just last weekend Francisco Liriano to help a rotation get better and more rest. Whatever anybody thought of the Sox farm system, it has been good enough -- and Williams has been smart and creative enough -- to produce young talent that can help the big league team now, either in trade or in Sox fatigues. Kind of like a parallel front. Good phrase, that. Yeah, a parallel front -- winning in the race to develop young talent It always seem that during the season winning teams seem to get better trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 05:23 PM) $56 Million and a number 1 pick for a DH is high. There is a difference between overpaying and buying high. Did we overpay for Dunn? Maybe, but just a tad bit. How many player you know in this league who can hit 40 HRs, drive in 100 runs and has a OPS greater than .900 makes less than $14 million a year? Buying high essentially is paying for a player who had a great stretch, we are paying a premium, but we aren't sure if he can keep up the level of play. But Dunn was one of the most consistent power hitters in baseball the year we got him. And at 30 years old, no one was expecting him to decline in value any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 As somebody who frequents fangraphs regularly...they don't think much of homegrown relievers. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian26 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 That article kinda sucked. How he can say we're getting zero contributions from the farm (Sale, Jones, etc etc) and Internationally (Ramirez, Viciedo) is beyond me. Dude needs to do his homework instead of just churning out a timely "let's all suck KW's dick" article. Gospel. And the entire premise of the article is that Kenny buys "low". How the hell were the Rios and Peavy acquisitions "buying low". Those two pickups handicapped Kenny to the point where we had to dump Quentin over the winter and not even offer Buehrle a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (Brian26 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 06:45 PM) Gospel. And the entire premise of the article is that Kenny buys "low". How the hell were the Rios and Peavy acquisitions "buying low". Those two pickups handicapped Kenny to the point where we had to dump Quentin over the winter and not even offer Buehrle a contract. Very nice. I'm trying to be positive because I like where the Sox are at, at the moment. But KW didn't go from being below average to above in 4 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (Brian26 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 06:45 PM) Gospel. And the entire premise of the article is that Kenny buys "low". How the hell were the Rios and Peavy acquisitions "buying low". Those two pickups handicapped Kenny to the point where we had to dump Quentin over the winter and not even offer Buehrle a contract. He's referring to acquiring talent without giving up talent. He stated the deals were not w/o risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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