fathom Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 06:48 PM) Do the Dodgers need a catcher? AJ Ellis is pretty solid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Mauer is still a really good player. I'd love him on the Sox. I'd think his power would return. KW should claim him for the block. There is absolutely no way the Twins ever let Mauer go to the White Sox, except maybe when he's totally washed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) Mauer is still a really good player. I'd love him on the Sox. I'd think his power would return. KW should claim him for the block. There is absolutely no way the Twins ever let Mauer go to the White Sox, except maybe when he's totally washed up. I'd let him walk in 1/4 of a second if I were in Ryan's shoes. Edit: 2010 27 Minnesota Twins $12,500,000 2011 28 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2012 29 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2013 30 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2014 31 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2015 32 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2016 33 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2017 34 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2018 35 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) I'd let him walk in 1/4 of a second if I were in Ryan's shoes. Edit: 2010 27 Minnesota Twins $12,500,000 2011 28 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2012 29 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2013 30 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2014 31 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2015 32 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2016 33 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2017 34 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 2018 35 Minnesota Twins $23,000,000 If I'm Ryan, I'd let him walk also but not to the White Sox. If you let him go to the White Sox and he's a great player, you just killed your fanbase for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) If I'm Ryan, I'd let him walk also but not to the White Sox. If you let him go to the White Sox and he's a great player, you just killed your fanbase for a very long time. Thank God you don't run the team. You'd claim him, and then he'd be on our roster needing to play 1b or DH every other day to save his knees, and we'd be screwed. If Mauer got claimed, he'd be let go. There is no doubt about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) Thank God you don't run the team. You'd claim him, and then he'd be on our roster needing to play 1b or DH every other day to save his knees, and we'd be screwed. If Mauer got claimed, he'd be let go. There is no doubt about that. Oh, I think there is some reason for doubt. I don't disagree with your logic, but I really think Mauer brings a lot more to that franchise than just his on field production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) Oh, I think there is some reason for doubt. I don't disagree with your logic, but I really think Mauer brings a lot more to that franchise than just his on field production. They would laugh and drive him to the airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) Thank God you don't run the team. You'd claim him, and then he'd be on our roster needing to play 1b or DH every other day to save his knees, and we'd be screwed. If Mauer got claimed, he'd be let go. There is no doubt about that. BS. If they won't let Mourneau walk, they aren't going to let Mauer walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) They would laugh and drive him to the airport. I don't think so...I think it would be a very difficult decision for them to make. The average fan doesn't believe or care about financial ramifications. They just want to see their favorite players stay in uniform. Those fans buy lots of tickets. Look at you, for instance, you just posted you don't care how financially irresponsible it is to bring back Mark, you'd do it in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) BS. If they won't let Mourneau walk, they aren't going to let Mauer walk. Having $14 million remaining on a contract vs having $138 million remaining is apparently not a factor in your brain. Edited August 29, 2012 by Steve9347 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:01 PM) I don't think so...I think it would be a very difficult decision for them to make. The average fan doesn't believe or care about financial ramifications. They just want to see their favorite players stay in uniform. Those fans buy lots of tickets. Look at you, for instance, you just posted you don't care how financially irresponsible it is to bring back Mark, you'd do it in a heartbeat. $138 million for a player showing decline vs $43 for a player who doesn't need a fastball. Again, apples to oranges. Also, the average fan is smarter than you give it credit for... and the "don't care fan" isn't making a decision to go to a Twins game because Joe Mauer sells shampoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) They would laugh and drive him to the airport. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) $138 million for a player showing decline vs $43 for a player who doesn't need a fastball. Again, apples to oranges. Also, the average fan is smarter than you give it credit for... and the "don't care fan" isn't making a decision to go to a Twins game because Joe Mauer sells shampoo. Well why on earth did they sign him to this deal in the first place then? It isn't like most people didn't see this coming... One would think part of their decision to give him this contract is for the exact reasons you are claiming are of no consequence now. I agree with you that I think it would be wise to let him walk. I just don't think it is as easy of a decision as you seem to think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 03:07 PM) Well why on earth did they sign him to this deal in the first place then? It isn't like most people didn't see this coming... One would think part of their decision to give him this contract is for the exact reasons you are claiming are of no consequence now. I agree with you that I think it would be wise to let him walk. I just don't think it is as easy of a decision as you seem to think it is. Everyone, including me, thought that was a good deal when they signed him to it. They had money to spend and he was coming off an incredible season. Even if he took something of a step back, it would have been tolerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:13 PM) Everyone, including me, thought that was a good deal when they signed him to it. They had money to spend and he was coming off an incredible season. Even if he took something of a step back, it would have been tolerable. I thought it was absolutely retarded, and I remember plenty of people being right there with me. One other thing, let's not pretend as if he is an awful player right now. According to fangraphs (yes, take this with a grain of salt), he has been worth $16.6 million thus far this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 He's still a good player and if he got out of Target Field, probably would be more of a force with power. The Twins still draw well and are making money. A salary dump of Minnesota's native son Mauer isn't going to happen, especially if perhaps their biggest rivals all things considered made the claim, despite what Steve says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:07 PM) Well why on earth did they sign him to this deal in the first place then? It isn't like most people didn't see this coming... At age 26 Joe Mauer put up a 1.031 OPS with a .444 OBP and 28 homers. The Twins, like many other folks, saw that as his coming out party and locked him up for a long-term deal that at $23 million per would keep him out of the Yankees' hands and carry him through his prime. He responded the next season by hitting 19 fewer bombs and getting on base way less. He then suffered through a 2011 where he missed half the season and his OPS sat .300 points below the insane MVP season. This year he's bounced back a bit, but still has no power. No one really saw that coming; I'm pretty sure most saw that age 26 season and thought they were looking at an all-time great. Injury and a ballpark move sapped his value. If claimed, the Twins would absolutely let him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 03:24 PM) No one really saw that coming; I'm pretty sure most saw that age 26 season and thought they were looking at an all-time great. Injury and a ballpark move sapped his value. If claimed, the Twins would absolutely let him go. To be fair, I think a lot of people thought his legs wouldn't hold up over the full length of the contract as a catcher, but the thought had to involve using 1b or DH as the backup position, perhaps once he was in his 30's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) At age 26 Joe Mauer put up a 1.031 OPS with a .444 OBP and 28 homers. The Twins, like many other folks, saw that as his coming out party and locked him up for a long-term deal that at $23 million per would keep him out of the Yankees' hands and carry him through his prime. He responded the next season by hitting 19 fewer bombs and getting on base way less. He then suffered through a 2011 where he missed half the season and his OPS sat .300 points below the insane MVP season. This year he's bounced back a bit, but still has no power. No one really saw that coming; I'm pretty sure most saw that age 26 season and thought they were looking at an all-time great. Injury and a ballpark move sapped his value. If claimed, the Twins would absolutely let him go. So you design a pitchers ballpark that takes away his power, and you sign him at the absolute peak of his performance. Brilliant. It was absolutely retarded. You don't purchase an asset at it's absolute peak value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) To be fair, I think a lot of people thought his legs wouldn't hold up over the full length of the contract as a catcher, but the thought had to involve using 1b or DH as the backup position, perhaps once he was in his 30's. Oh yeah, I agree. They signed that contract assuming he wouldn't be playing catcher for the life of it, but with the stats he put up, who cared? Now that he's just a walks machine that plays catcher a couple times a week, the contract is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) So you design a pitchers ballpark that takes away his power, and you sign him at the absolute peak of his performance. Brilliant. It was absolutely retarded. You don't purchase an asset at it's absolute peak value. They didn't purchase an asset at it's absolute peak value. They extended the asset. They invested in a draft pick, developed him, paid him the going rate, and watched him blossom into the best hitter in baseball. They then paid to keep him instead of trading him for a truckload of prospects or watching him walk in free agency. He then declined rapidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) Oh yeah, I agree. They signed that contract assuming he wouldn't be playing catcher for the life of it, but with the stats he put up, who cared? Now that he's just a walks machine that plays catcher a couple times a week, the contract is awful. He was always a walks-machine leading up to the 2009 season. In his 4 full seasons prior to that, he hit a homer basically every 51 at-bats. He had in incredible 2009 season, no doubt about it. But if you're going to sign the guy to a 8-year $184 million contract based on one outlier season, you shouldn't be shocked that it turns out to be an "awful" contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:34 PM) They didn't purchase an asset at it's absolute peak value. They extended the asset. They invested in a draft pick, developed him, paid him the going rate, and watched him blossom into the best hitter in baseball. They then paid to keep him instead of trading him for a truckload of prospects or watching him walk in free agency. He then declined rapidly. What is the meaningful distinction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) He was always a walks-machine leading up to the 2009 season. In his 4 full seasons prior to that, he hit a homer basically every 51 at-bats. He had in incredible 2009 season, no doubt about it. But if you're going to sign the guy to a 8-year $184 million contract based on one outlier season, you shouldn't be shocked that it turns out to be an "awful" contract. None of this effects my point that the Twins would do the happy dance if someone claimed Joe Mauer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 29, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) None of this effects my point that the Twins would do the happy dance if someone claimed Joe Mauer. It does insomuch as it lends one to believe there are plenty of reasons other than his on-field performance that add value to their Organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.