Quin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 07:05 PM) I know it's not right now. The Trayvon Martin thread was originally in slam. As was the chick-filet crap. You know it's coming. And all the usual suspects will be involved. Huh. Did know those were in SLaM originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The Trayvon thread was started in Filibuster. By me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 07:13 PM) The Trayvon thread was started in Filibuster. By me. Then somebody else started one either before or after you and it got merged. I distinctly remember reading about it in Slam first. Oh, and let's not forget about the Gordon Beckham thread. It started out in PHT. It ended up in fili for I have no idea why. It's wasn't a big deal at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 07:16 PM) Then somebody else started one either before or after you and it got merged. I distinctly remember reading about it in Slam first. Oh, and let's not forget about the Gordon Beckham thread. It started out in PHT. It ended up in fili for I have no idea why. It's wasn't a big deal at all. The Getz is Gay one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 07:18 PM) The Getz is Gay one? That's the one. s*** turned into a spectacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 05:41 PM) Every time something bad happens to a gay guy, or a Muslum, or whoever, it isn't always because they are gay, or Muslim. Sometimes they are just assholes, or sometimes just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Seriously, what does the addition of hate crimes add to anything? sometimes i doubt whether or not you're a human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 06:18 PM) The Getz is Gay one? The one about the #8 pick that bats .203 I'm not sure what the confusion with hate crime/non-hate crime is. If there are clear indications that race/religion/sexual orientation etc. played a role in the crime, it's a hate crime. If it was a random act targeting whoever happens to be in the way, it's not. This particular shooting is very clearly a hate crime, while the Colorado theater shooting is not. Just because a victim is a certain religion or ethnicity doesn't automatically make it a hate crime. Some crimes just wouldn't have happened if it weren't for those afore-mentioned qualifiers. Edited August 7, 2012 by Swingandalongonetoleft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 07:39 PM) sometimes i doubt whether or not you're a human being. Tell me what is the advantage or use of labeling this a hate crime. what does it do? does it make anyone undead? does it make them hurt less? It does nothing except to allieve some liberal guilt over whoever the perp was (usually white, if it is labeled a hate crime). So tell me, what is the whole point of hate crime laws? Really. And get off your high horse and answer with your head out of ass and use some facts, because emotion just doesn't win. Because I sometimes I doubt you can argue any point without trying to have your 'feelings' as the fact that decides it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 07:46 PM) The one about the #8 pick that bats .203 I'm not sure what the confusion with hate crime/non-hate crime is. If there are clear indications that race/religion/sexual orientation etc. played a role in the crime, it's a hate crime. If it was a random act targeting whoever happens to be in the way, it's not. This particular shooting is very clearly a hate crime, while the Colorado theater shooting is not. Just because a victim is a certain religion or ethnicity doesn't automatically make it a hate crime. Some crimes just wouldn't have happened if it weren't for those afore-mentioned qualifiers. So why is a hate crime any worse than a regular one? Again, are they more dead because he called them racial names when he shot them? He is allowed to hate them, he isn't allowed to kill them. You can't lock people up for thier thoughts, or you might as well put the big screen in your apartment for big brother to watch over you right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 07:28 PM) So why is a hate crime any worse than a regular one? Again, are they more dead because he called them racial names when he shot them? He is allowed to hate them, he isn't allowed to kill them. You can't lock people up for thier thoughts, or you might as well put the big screen in your apartment for big brother to watch over you right now. if it's racially/ethnically charged that means there's something WRONG in our national dialogue. hate crimes come from LEARNED beliefs. they had to learn them from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I can't believe this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:44 PM) I can't believe this. i know. it's like this country took a 50 year jump back in time the last year or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:48 PM) i know. it's like this country took a 50 year jump back in time the last year or so I was thinking last page or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:43 PM) if it's racially/ethnically charged that means there's something WRONG in our national dialogue. hate crimes come from LEARNED beliefs. they had to learn them from somewhere. And charging someone with a hate crime does WHAT!? Besides making you feel good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:28 PM) So why is a hate crime any worse than a regular one? Again, are they more dead because he called them racial names when he shot them? He is allowed to hate them, he isn't allowed to kill them. You can't lock people up for thier thoughts, or you might as well put the big screen in your apartment for big brother to watch over you right now. Motive is already a factor, acting like this is revolutionary is hilarious. 50% of criminal prosecution is "mens rea" aka guilty mind, so should motive not be an element of criminal prosecution? It shouldnt matter what reason I killed someone, for example self-defense, because I wouldnt want the govt to read my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:48 PM) i know. it's like this country took a 50 year jump back in time the last year or so So you want to live in a Tom Cruise movie and arrest people for thought crimes now, eh? Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 09:03 PM) And charging someone with a hate crime does WHAT!? Besides making you feel good. It penalizes bad behavior, the purpose of criminal law? What is the purpose of any law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 09:05 PM) Motive is already a factor, acting like this is revolutionary is hilarious. 50% of criminal prosecution is "mens rea" aka guilty mind, so should motive not be an element of criminal prosecution? It shouldnt matter what reason I killed someone, for example self-defense, because I wouldnt want the govt to read my thoughts. He shot and killed people. There are laws against that. He hated people. There are not laws against that. His 'hate' can be used to determine a motive, but why should his thoughts mean an additional crime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 09:06 PM) It penalizes bad behavior, the purpose of criminal law? What is the purpose of any law? So you are punishing bad thought. Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:03 PM) And charging someone with a hate crime does WHAT!? Besides making you feel good. draw AWARENESS to it as a NATIONAL ISSUE. you're just ... wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:11 PM) So you are punishing bad thought. Great. you realize hate crimes have existed for a long time now... it's like you're just learning they're a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 09:10 PM) He shot and killed people. There are laws against that. He hated people. There are not laws against that. His 'hate' can be used to determine a motive, but why should his thoughts mean an additional crime? Because hate is a motive, and motive can be a factor in how harsh the penalties are. Are you arguing that it shouldnt be more of a penalty, or that its duplicative as a law and therefore unnecessary? QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 09:11 PM) So you are punishing bad thought. Great. Bad thought is already punished. Murder 1 v Murder 2. Intentional arson versus non-intentional. If I purposefully burnt down a school, shouldnt I be punished more than if I accidentally burnt down a school? I really dont know where you are going with this. Edited August 7, 2012 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:16 PM) I really dont know where you are going with this. it's ok, he doesn't either. he's just flaming for flaming's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 09:03 PM) And charging someone with a hate crime does WHAT!? Besides making you feel good. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 08:44 PM) I can't believe this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Aug 6, 2012 -> 09:13 PM) draw AWARENESS to it as a NATIONAL ISSUE. you're just ... wow. Next you are gonna break out "it's for the children...." Pass a law to raise awareness. And yes, I know they have been around, I have always thought they were stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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