southsider2k5 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 10:08 AM) Judging from what we know about him, that sounds exactly like something Youk would do. Either that or his agent. It is in their best interest to try to get some public pressure on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) Morel, Beckham, Ramirez, and Viciedo in the same lineup - sounds like must-watch TV! Kenny is not that incompetent. He'll find a way to bring back Youk. Yeah stupid Kenny for getting guys that had us in first place before Youkilis got here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 That's a bunch of crap. That's Nick Cafardo the Red Sox beat writer reporting this. I doubt any members of Sox would tell a Red Sox writer that we are not bringing a guy back, a guy who is crucial to our playoff run. It will only bring down his moral knowing that no matter how well he performs, we are not bringing him back. While we will probably not see Youk back next season, I don't think a decision has been made yet, and we are not spilling the beans to a Red Sox writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 10:50 AM) That's a bunch of crap. That's Nick Cafardo the Red Sox beat writer reporting this. I doubt any members of Sox would tell a Red Sox writer that we are not bringing a guy back, a guy who is crucial to our playoff run. It will only bring down his moral knowing that no matter how well he performs, we are not bringing him back. While we will probably not see Youk back next season, I don't think a decision has been made yet, and we are not spilling the beans to a Red Sox writer. "we" as an organization sure as heck aren't. Youk and his camp very well might be. Especially considering the "leak" went to a Boston writer, it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) "we" as an organization sure as heck aren't. Youk and his camp very well might be. Especially considering the "leak" went to a Boston writer, it makes sense. Or was made up by a Bosox beat writer. Might have been a twist on the fact Valentine wanted that Middlebrooks guy in the lineup and they are just covering their behinds now making it sound lijke this trade was only a rental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 10:07 AM) I would be fine with Morel if healthy enough to bring that defense. Reason being: we are free to upgrade positions other than 3B to make up the difference. Many ways to win. You can't have a 3B who can't hit. I don't care if he can cover the entire infield by himself. Morel is a .230-.240 hitter with questionable power and that's optimistic. I don't know if Youkalis will ultimatley be back - as I said earlier, the amount of financial resources and the market value will play a long way to determining what Williams does (or doesn't) do. In all reality, the value of the free agents they do have (Youkalis, Peavy, Liriano, Myers, AJ) will probably price them out of keeping all of them so it's going to be a numbers game and it'll be an interesting debate to see how the White Sox value this list - my guess is that AJ will be seen as the most valuable offensive piece and that Liriano the most valuable pitcher, but that's just a guess. I don't even rule out Morel playing a role on the roster next season - Youkalis is hardly a guarantee to be back, just don't think Morel can be handed a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (spiderman @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 04:31 PM) my guess is that AJ will be seen as the most valuable offensive piece Man, that can't be. A 36 year old catcher who is having an outlier year will be offensive priority #1? Yikes. It's gotta be Youkilis. AJ is my favorite player on the team, but who cares if he goes elsewhere? This is no spring chicken we're talking about. Edited August 7, 2012 by hammerhead johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 11:36 AM) Man, that can't be. A 36 year old catcher who is having an outlier year will be offensive priority #1? Yikes. It's gotta be Youkilis. AJ is my favorite player on the team, but who cares if he goes elsewhere? This is no spring chicken we're talking about. It's debatable for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 12:36 PM) Man, that can't be. A 36 year old catcher who is having an outlier year will be offensive priority #1? Yikes. It's gotta be Youkilis. AJ is my favorite player on the team, but who cares if he goes elsewhere? This is no spring chicken we're talking about. Catchers Rod Barajas (37) - $3.5MM club option, no buyout Henry Blanco (41) - $1.24MM mutual option Chris Iannetta (30) - $5MM club option with a $250K buyout; player can void Gerald Laird (33) Russell Martin (30) Jeff Mathis (30) Brian McCann (29) - $12MM club option with a $500K buyout Jose Molina (37) - $1.5MM club option with a $300K buyout Mike Napoli (31) Dioner Navarro (29) Wil Nieves (35) Miguel Olivo (34) - $3MM club option with a $750K buyout Ronny Paulino (32) A.J. Pierzynski (36) Humberto Quintero (33) David Ross (36) Carlos Ruiz (34) - $5MM club option with a $500K buyout Brian Schneider (36) Kelly Shoppach (33) Chris Snyder (32) - mutual option Yorvit Torrealba (34) Matt Treanor (37) You get to pick from that list and Tyler Flowers, if you don't re-up with AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 06:05 PM) You get to pick from that list and Tyler Flowers, if you don't re-up with AJ. Yeah, that's pretty weak, but the prospect of Brent Morel being the opening day starter at 3B is much more frightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 02:05 PM) You get to pick from that list and Tyler Flowers, if you don't re-up with AJ. You wouldn't want Napoli? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 11:36 AM) Man, that can't be. A 36 year old catcher who is having an outlier year will be offensive priority #1? Yikes. It's gotta be Youkilis. AJ is my favorite player on the team, but who cares if he goes elsewhere? This is no spring chicken we're talking about. Major league catchers who can handle a pitching staff well, defend the position, be durable, and put up the numbers AJ does even on average... are very hard to find. Flowers will likely not be that guy, nor Phegley, and anyone else in the system (Smith, Blanke, others) are not anything like ready. Without AJ, you suddenly have a deep hole. At 3B, we already have a guy who gives you plus defense, and has at times been able to hit - so maybe he can again. And there are other infielders out there the Sox could pick up who can reasonably play there, if not hit as well as Youk. Who also, by the way, is not a spring chicken. If I had to choose which to bring back - as long as neither deal was more than 2 years guaranteed, maybe 3d year option - I'd put the money on AJ. Unless of course the Sox feel they can land a good catcher from elsewhere, that I am not aware of being available. Could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 06:29 PM) You wouldn't want Napoli? And how much do you think a 31 year old catcher with a career .860 OPS will demand on the open market? He's not an option. I don't know how much money you can continue shelling out to mercenaries. At some point you have to draft one player that can contribute on offense. Just one. I know you can do it, Kenny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 i like what ive seen from liriano so far. assuming he keeps this up and you could resign him for like 3/30 , thats not something the sox are going to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) And how much do you think a 31 year old catcher with a career .860 OPS will demand on the open market? He's not an option. I don't know how much money you can continue shelling out to mercenaries. At some point you have to draft one player that can contribute on offense. Just one. I know you can do it, Kenny! Team draft philosophy really started changing about 3-4 drafts ago, so we are just reaching a point where some of those might happen. The high risk, high ceiling OF trio (Mitchell/Thompson/Walker) may get us something, Sanchez looking good, etc. Also, regardless of draft, what matters is young, cheap starting talent no matter how you get it. De Aza was a scrap heap pickup, and has worked really well. Viciedo is very reasonably priced, and he was a Sox product. Alaxei is no longer young, but is inexpensive and under control. Beckham is there, but isn't doing anything with the bat. You need a catcher and a 3B next year, and most people agree that Morel and Flowers are not great options. Ideally, you start neither. But it is simply harder (or more expensive) to find a replacement for AJ, than one for Youk, in my view. And for catchers, familiarity with a system and its pitchers is more important than with any other position on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 06:43 PM) Major league catchers who can handle a pitching staff well, defend the position, be durable, and put up the numbers AJ does even on average... are very hard to find. Flowers will likely not be that guy, nor Phegley, and anyone else in the system (Smith, Blanke, others) are not anything like ready. Without AJ, you suddenly have a deep hole. At 3B, we already have a guy who gives you plus defense, and has at times been able to hit - so maybe he can again. And there are other infielders out there the Sox could pick up who can reasonably play there, if not hit as well as Youk. Who also, by the way, is not a spring chicken. If I had to choose which to bring back - as long as neither deal was more than 2 years guaranteed, maybe 3d year option - I'd put the money on AJ. Unless of course the Sox feel they can land a good catcher from elsewhere, that I am not aware of being available. Could happen. Morel would have to make a quantum leap just to be a mediocre hitter. Spending meaningful dollars on a 36 year old catcher would be a pretty horrible investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 with all these free agents, the sox really need to find someone to take on thorntons contract. 5.5 mil is way too much for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) Morel would have to make a quantum leap just to be a mediocre hitter. Spending meaningful dollars on a 36 year old catcher would be a pretty horrible investment. You just keep ignoring that there are no other good options. You yourself pointed out, Napoli may be the only good one available, and he will cost a fortune. AJ won't cost a fortune. Youk probably will, and he is also a guy who was fading fast before the Sox got him. That may have been injuries or a blip, or maybe it was the start of a trend for him. At 3B, there is usually more good talent available at any given offseason, than at C. And all else equal, having stability at C is much more important than at 3B. Of course, I'd love to see both of them back in 2013 on short, reasonable deals. I just am not sure Youk will sign for a short, reasonable deal. AJ, I think, would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 06:56 PM) Also, regardless of draft, what matters is young, cheap starting talent no matter how you get it. De Aza was a scrap heap pickup, and has worked really well. That's just pure luck, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 07:01 PM) You just keep ignoring that there are no other good options. You yourself pointed out, Napoli may be the only good one available, and he will cost a fortune. AJ won't cost a fortune. Youk probably will, and he is also a guy who was fading fast before the Sox got him. That may have been injuries or a blip, or maybe it was the start of a trend for him. At 3B, there is usually more good talent available at any given offseason, than at C. And all else equal, having stability at C is much more important than at 3B. Of course, I'd love to see both of them back in 2013 on short, reasonable deals. I just am not sure Youk will sign for a short, reasonable deal. AJ, I think, would. Have you looked at a list of free agents at 3B? It's dreadful. Youkilis is really the only option. I'd like to bring AJ back, but someone will probably overpay based on the outlier year that he's having. A cheap stopgap like Olivo sounds like the smartest plan to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 02:02 PM) That's just pure luck, though. Can't have it both ways. If it is good luck they were able to find guys like De Aza and Quintana that other teams left for dead... than you have to say its bad luck that other guys didn't produce as planned from the draft. Or, it was skill in both cases and they deserve credit. Or some of both across the board. But to say De Aza, or other good pickups are good luck, but other lack of success is bad organizational work, is just being negative to be negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 02:05 PM) Have you looked at a list of free agents at 3B? It's dreadful. Youkilis is really the only option. I'd like to bring AJ back, but someone will probably overpay based on the outlier year that he's having. A cheap stopgap like Olivo sounds like the smartest plan to me. The good news for the Sox is, a lot of teams are going to be turned off by AJ, for both age and supposed attitude. Too much risk. I think they are more likely to overspend on a Youkilis than an AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 07:06 PM) Can't have it both ways. If it is good luck they were able to find guys like De Aza and Quintana that other teams left for dead... than you have to say its bad luck that other guys didn't produce as planned from the draft. Or, it was skill in both cases and they deserve credit. Or some of both across the board. But to say De Aza, or other good pickups are good luck, but other lack of success is bad organizational work, is just being negative to be negative. We're not talking pitching, though. When the Sox are abysmal come 2014 or 2015, you'll know why. Haha, you think Kenny saw something in De Aza that nobody else did? Wouldn't that be ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 03:12 PM) Haha, you think Kenny saw something in De Aza that nobody else did? Wouldn't that be ironic. Yes. Loved that pickup in 2010 from the moment it was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 02:12 PM) We're not talking pitching, though. When the Sox are abysmal come 2014 or 2015, you'll know why. Haha, you think Kenny saw something in De Aza that nobody else did? Wouldn't that be ironic. Considering he cleared the entire NL on waivers, and the majority of the AL before getting claimed by the White Sox? Yes, that would be exactly what it is saying. Either that or about 25ish GMs passed on starting CF, because of why now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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