PorkChopExpress Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 12:40 PM) It isn't comparable at all, yes it is sad when your pet dies but if you really think that is enough of a distraction to suck as much as Beckham has he doesn't belong on a roster. QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 12:43 PM) Really? Really? It's an old pet that died. Not a child. QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 12:45 PM) Holy hell this post is all kinds of wrong. QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 12:47 PM) I'm sorry, but when I see a post like this I just shake my head. I realize people love their pets, but when you say losing a pet is comparable to losing a family member I know you haven't been anywhere close to the shoes I have walked in. I'm not targeting you personally, just telling it like it really is. You know, I usually try not to get into these kinds of things, but this one gets me. Everyone experiences life differently. Some people bond with their pets just as much, if not more, than with family members. And when they lose a pet, it is the same, or worse than the loss of a family member. Don't presume to tell other people how "it really is" or how they should feel based on your personal experiences. Who are you to tell other people how they should or should not cope with a loss of any kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 01:23 PM) You know, I usually try not to get into these kinds of things, but this one gets me. Everyone experiences life differently. Some people bond with their pets just as much, if not more, than with family members. And when they lose a pet, it is the same, or worse than the loss of a family member. Don't presume to tell other people how "it really is" or how they should feel based on your personal experiences. Who are you to tell other people how they should or should not cope with a loss of any kind? I'm just going to shut up here before I say something I shouldn't. Or maybe its before I say something I should. Either way, I walk away from this crap right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 01:31 PM) I'm just going to shut up here before I say something I shouldn't. Or maybe its before I say something I should. Either way, I walk away from this crap right now. I started to respond too, but I stopped myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Beckham's dog has not been dying for the last three years. This isn't an explanation for him sucking at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Beckham is about to go on a tear to honor Dixie's memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coco1997 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 12:45 PM) Holy hell this post is all kinds of wrong. Uh, no. As someone who works for one of the bigger animal shelters in Chicago and sees first-hand how people cope with pet loss on a daily basis, I can tell you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not about to blame Beckham's dog's death on his shortcomings at the plate the last three years. However, if his dog has been sick the last month or so during a time when, as others have pointed out, he's been more abysmal than usual, it's perfectly legitimate to point to that as a source of distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 01:23 PM) You know, I usually try not to get into these kinds of things, but this one gets me. Everyone experiences life differently. Some people bond with their pets just as much, if not more, than with family members. And when they lose a pet, it is the same, or worse than the loss of a family member. Don't presume to tell other people how "it really is" or how they should feel based on your personal experiences. Who are you to tell other people how they should or should not cope with a loss of any kind? Good post. Lots if emotions are illogical. I'm in no position to judge what one values in life. With that said, Gordon Beckham sucks at hitting a baseball at the professional level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sorry to hear about the dog. I am sure that can be very difficult. However... QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 01:23 PM) You know, I usually try not to get into these kinds of things, but this one gets me. Everyone experiences life differently. Some people bond with their pets just as much, if not more, than with family members. And when they lose a pet, it is the same, or worse than the loss of a family member. Don't presume to tell other people how "it really is" or how they should feel based on your personal experiences. Who are you to tell other people how they should or should not cope with a loss of any kind? No one in their right mind loves their pet(s) more than their children. That is 100% ridiculous, no matter how much you may love your dog/cat or whatever. Dunn's child was experiencing major medical problems. There is absolutely no comparison there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Beckham not being able to hit is indeed an organizational failure seeing how high a pick he was. But the landscape is littered with guys that looked good at first and then could never catch up to the alteration that was made against them. I dont know if it's the rookie year he had or what, but it's nothing new for a fan to accept something like this and move on... considering him from now on: a defense guy that occasionally could bring a big HR your way here and there. Edited August 21, 2012 by Jose Paniagua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 My guess is, Beckham is going to get one more shot in 2013. Carlos Sanchez is waiting in the wings, possibly Saladino as well, but neither are ready right now. If 2013 sucks for Beckham at the plate, he'll become a utility IF or be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 As pissed off as I get at Beckham, I still think he will break out and be an all-star. I do think the Sox have failed him on some level like JP said, probably taking more of a band-aid approach to his hitting issues rather than sending him back to the minors to fix the issue long term, but this guy was a helluva talent and I just don't see giving up on it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkChopExpress Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) Sorry to hear about the dog. I am sure that can be very difficult. However... No one in their right mind loves their pet(s) more than their children. That is 100% ridiculous, no matter how much you may love your dog/cat or whatever. Dunn's child was experiencing major medical problems. There is absolutely no comparison there. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. The funny thing about opinions is that they are, by their very definition, personal beliefs or judgments that rest on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. So how is it that your opinion makes it so certain that no one can love a pet as much as a child? Back on point, the loss of a dog could be a distraction to a player, but as others have alluded to, Gordo's struggles have been going on for years at this point, and certainly are not explained away by the death of his dog. I feel for him, but he still needs to become a better hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 20, 2012 -> 05:58 PM) Alexei Ramirez with RISP: .350 AVG, .846 OPS 2 outs, RISP: .318/.788 WAR: 1.1 bWAR, .7 fWAR The thing that sticks out to me in Alexei's numbers is that his walk rate is way down. I don't have a good explanation for this other than perhaps the lack of power has pitchers unafraid to go right at him. I would say it could be related to his somewhat diminished role given the breaking out of Dunn, Rios, AJP, Youk, ADA...but it isn't like Alexei was ever a truly featured hitter. It could easily be the opposite of what I think, that a poor eye is preventing the power from coming out rather than vice versa. Because Ramirez has forgotten how to hit the ball to all fields. He pretty much has become a dead pull hitter...particularly any ball he hits on the ground, it's to 3B or SS about 95% of the time. We've seen Dayan fall into this bad habit quite a few times this year and then temporarily pull out of it, same thing with Quentin in the past as well...or Konerko, for another example. If Alexei goes up the middle and to the right side more often, he'll still get fastballs he can turn on for doubles, triples and homers. But he's just a much more limited hitter using just the left side of the field. And he's never adjusted to become a consistently dangerous hitter against off-speed stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 TL;DR Thread is too long to catch up on now...but... Beckham isn't having a bad second half. He's having a bad 2+ years. And that is that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Its too bad he still can't hit a fastball and is over-matched by league average pitching. Hes now a negative WAR player period. His wOBA is .270, 30 points lower than the next lowest AL 2B. His FB hitting ability, measured by wFB on Fangraphs is -7.8 now for the 2nd year in a row. His ability to hit the slider, wSL is -6.6 and the change up, wCH, is -1.9. The only pitches hes a positive hitter on cutter, curve, and splitter, and his slightly above 0 on all of those. There is something wrong with a hitter who is the worst at hitting FBs, 2nd worst at hitting Sliders, and 3rd worst at hitting Change Ups...aka about 90% of the pitches hes going to see. There is just no place for that in the AL, at any position. The fact that he's a "good glove guy" is meaningless unless ur manager is Tony LaRussa who loves inferior hitting infielders with "good gloves" like David Eckstein, Khalil Greene, Aaron Miles, etc. A plus glove guy who can't hit is perfect for the NL (I'm thinking Padres) or a bench role. Sad but true. Edited August 21, 2012 by joeynach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (joeynach @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) Its too bad he still can't hit a fastball and is over-matched by league average pitching. Hes now a negative WAR player period. His wOBA is .270, 30 points lower than the next lowest AL 2B. His FB hitting ability, measured by wFB on Fangraphs is -7.8 now for the 2nd year in a row. His ability to hit the slider, wSL is -6.6 and the change up, wCH, is -1.9. The only pitches hes a positive hitter on cutter, curve, and splitter, and his slightly above 0 on all of those. There is something wrong with a hitter who is the worst at hitting FBs, 2nd worst at hitting Sliders, and 3rd worst at hitting Change Ups...aka about 90% of the pitches hes going to see. There is just no place for that in the AL, at any position. The fact that he's a "good glove guy" is meaningless unless ur manager is Tony LaRussa who loves inferior hitting infielders with "good gloves" like David Eckstein, Khalil Greene, Aaron Miles, etc. A plus glove guy who can't hit is perfect for the NL (I'm thinking Padres) or a bench role. Sad but true. I forgot about Greene aka Beckham SR. I remember watching him in the CWS and he was a collegiate beast as well. I'm still waiting for him to break out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Beckham is having a rough career... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) Sox would have to free up a 40 man roster spot for him. dfa hudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 You can't DFA a player from the DL until he comes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'll start by saying Beckham will never be as good as this guy, but the Sox should have handled Beckham the was Cleveland did Brandon Phillips. They kept wanting him to be the guy but he couldn't hit. They put him in the minors and then finally shipped him out to Cincy. Then, in his 5th year at age 25, he finally started putting it together and has become a top notch 2B for Cincy. He's still oly .300 once but he's consistently in the .270 range with about 20 HR, 80 RBI, and we'd all take that from Beckham. The Sox should have sent Beckham down in his 2nd year but it's too late now. I don't think he's a lost cause but it's pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 01:23 PM) You know, I usually try not to get into these kinds of things, but this one gets me. Everyone experiences life differently. Some people bond with their pets just as much, if not more, than with family members. And when they lose a pet, it is the same, or worse than the loss of a family member. Don't presume to tell other people how "it really is" or how they should feel based on your personal experiences. Who are you to tell other people how they should or should not cope with a loss of any kind? That's nice and all, if you suck at baseball because your dog is sick/dying/dead go get a new job..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 He's probably going to wind up hitting .250. Like I said, just bat him ninth the rest of his career and forget about it. Pencil him in for the next 10 years but bat him 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 11:27 PM) He's probably going to wind up hitting .250. Like I said, just bat him ninth the rest of his career and forget about it. Pencil him in for the next 10 years but bat him 9th. He'd have to hit WELL over .300 the last 40 some games in order to get his average to that point. 43/137=.317 (to finish) gives him .250 for the full season over 555 at-bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 QUOTE (joeynach @ Aug 21, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) Its too bad he still can't hit a fastball and is over-matched by league average pitching. Hes now a negative WAR player period. His wOBA is .270, 30 points lower than the next lowest AL 2B. His FB hitting ability, measured by wFB on Fangraphs is -7.8 now for the 2nd year in a row. His ability to hit the slider, wSL is -6.6 and the change up, wCH, is -1.9. The only pitches hes a positive hitter on cutter, curve, and splitter, and his slightly above 0 on all of those. There is something wrong with a hitter who is the worst at hitting FBs, 2nd worst at hitting Sliders, and 3rd worst at hitting Change Ups...aka about 90% of the pitches hes going to see. There is just no place for that in the AL, at any position. The fact that he's a "good glove guy" is meaningless unless ur manager is Tony LaRussa who loves inferior hitting infielders with "good gloves" like David Eckstein, Khalil Greene, Aaron Miles, etc. A plus glove guy who can't hit is perfect for the NL (I'm thinking Padres) or a bench role. Sad but true. As I mentioned earlier, his ability to hit high velo fastballs has been an issue for a couple years... but not so much the past couple weeks. The advanced stats won't tell you that, yet. Use your eyes. We'll see if it sticks, but for now, he's made a good adjustment. Also, I find it hilarious when people throw out gourmet offensive stats, but then decides having a "good glove" is meaningless. Defense is a key part of any player's value to a team (except DH's), and that is amplified in the middle infield. Beckham being above average defensively at 2B has definite value to he team. Want proof of the value of defense? Check out how many more UER the Tigers have given up this year than the Sox... then add to that the even more runs given up on lack of range, etc... and you start to realize that the Tigers are giving up probably close to a half run more per game than the Sox just due to defense. And they are 2 games back, despite their talent. Defense matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Beckham's OPS by month: April .434 May .745 June .744 July .501 August .695 Overall, not a very good year, but a two-month stretch that is more than acceptable for a 2B with his glove. Definitely not ready to give up on him, especially since there really isn't a feasible replacement. As an added bonus, his poor last two seasons will make him cheap in arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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