Beckham having a rough second half

[Jake]

Manto's comments in that Q and A with FanGraphs made it seem like he thought Gordon shouldn't be in the MLB.

 

First Manto says that if you have legitimately made it in the MLB, you shouldn't have any real mechanical issues, perhaps just a tweak here and there. It's all about approach, etc.

 

He then goes on to discuss Gordon and some "major" mechanical issues that he had and has going on that they have been working on consistently...as if to say he should be at a level where it is appropriate to work on mechanical problems. He said that his problems made it impossible for him to stay consistent over the course of a season, hence the short bursts of glory that make us believe in Gordon again before hitting a tailspin. The Sox's hands are tied though, I understand.

[Dick Allen]

Ramirez' OPS is about the same as Beckham's. Still waiting for a non Marty34 Ramirez must go because he simply cannot hit post.

[southsider2k5]

Manto's comments in that Q and A with FanGraphs made it seem like he thought Gordon shouldn't be in the MLB.

 

First Manto says that if you have legitimately made it in the MLB, you shouldn't have any real mechanical issues, perhaps just a tweak here and there. It's all about approach, etc.

 

He then goes on to discuss Gordon and some "major" mechanical issues that he had and has going on that they have been working on consistently...as if to say he should be at a level where it is appropriate to work on mechanical problems. He said that his problems made it impossible for him to stay consistent over the course of a season, hence the short bursts of glory that make us believe in Gordon again before hitting a tailspin. The Sox's hands are tied though, I understand.

 

link?

 

[Dick Allen]

link?

He actually said Beckham cleaned up his mechanics quite a bit and is at the point they could be sustained for 600 AB.

[Balta1701]

So, while we have Gordon under control for 3 years, we should just dump him instead of seeing if he can fix his issues in the minors?

 

The guy is the best fielding 2B in the league. If they can send him down to the minors, fix his problems, then he hits .270 with his defense, we'd all love him. That's not out of the realm of possibility.

Gordon will be probalby a $2 million or so arbitration player next year. He'll be this team's penciled in starting 2b for 1 more year. Replacing Beckham is no where near as high of a priority as filling the 3b and C holes this offseason and perhaps finding a starting pitcher depending on Danks's status.

 

Come 2014, when Gordon would be a more expensive, 2nd year arbitration player, then it may be time to cut him loose, but perhaps we'll be luckier and have Sanchez or another kid step up and be a reasonable option to fill in then.

[G&T]

He's thinking too much at the plate. That slows you down. When he's going well, his bat is plenty quick enough.

 

That's a cop out. Guys with bad swings are going to think too much. There's no way anyone can be this bad without having mechanical flaws.

 

And the Manto stuff is here

[greg775]

If you're a player Soxtalk HASN'T said its time to move away from, you are in a huge minority.

 

I still think Beckham will hit. He's had some stretches where he's been good, he's also been awful and he's been unlucky. 2010 was a bad year overall, but he was really good the second have before he broke his thumb. Its all in his mind. The talent is there, the frustration IMO keeps him from busting out. I'd keep him around at least one more year. His glove alone has saved the Sox some games.

 

His pop ups are so annoying. If he'd have smashed a hit against the Royals to break that 2-2 tie maybe we'd have won that game? Scratch that, Royals still would have won, but you never know. I'd stick him ninth in the order and never move him, ever, and let him be our second baseman the next 10 years. The man cannot hit, so HE MUST BAT NINTH!!!! Even if he gets hot like he does twice a season, keep him ninth.

[Andy the Clown]

Player A .234 Ave, 11HR, 48 RBI, .670 OPS -0.3 WAR

Player B .223 Ave, 11HR, 42 RBI, .624 OPS -0.6 WAR

 

Anyone ready to call Eric Hosmer a bust?

 

Except Hosmer is about 4 years younger than Beckham and has significantly less major league experience.

 

Nice try, though. Beckham is an awful major league player, has been for a long time, and is one of the major reasons the overall lineup is not as effective as it should be.

[Andy the Clown]

It's mental...

 

No it's not. It's a lack of hitting ability. There is no such thing as a three year slump, or a three year mental block. The dude cannot hit. I know that's hard to believe given his draft status and the fact that he LOOKS hitterish. But he's one of the worst hitters in the game.

[Steve9347]

"Dick Allen" - I respect your adoration for all things Sox, but there's a lot of data suggesting Gordon Beckham is a truly s***ty baseball player.

[LittleHurt05]

Ramirez' OPS is about the same as Beckham's. Still waiting for a non Marty34 Ramirez must go because he simply cannot hit post.

 

Boers & Bernstein just spent a good chunk of time discussing how much both Beckham & Ramirez have royally sucked this year. Alexei has 6 homers. His career low is 15.

[LittleHurt05]

Good call. Look at that 2010 season at Age 26.

 

In that age 26 season in 2010, Alex Gordon played 75 games in the minor leagues. The Sox have yet to try that with Beckham.

[elrockinMT]

Out of curiosity, what do you consider "fine"? This is his 4th straight season of offensive decline. Even if he returned to his 2010 form, that's still a below average hitter.

 

 

I could turn that question around to the naysayers on this site. Gordon Bewckham was rushed to the majors and in his 4 years had to learn basically two new positions over his original college SS days. Gordon Beckham has shown the ability all he needs is the confidence. I am not aure you can expect a turnaround during reguar season but hed does work on improving. The glove is super. I think at the very least the off season will give him a chance to get straightened out

[elrockinMT]

"Dick Allen" - I respect your adoration for all things Sox, but there's a lot of data suggesting Gordon Beckham is a truly s***ty baseball player.

 

 

You can twist data to mean anything you want it to.

[TaylorStSox]

Ramirez' OPS is about the same as Beckham's. Still waiting for a non Marty34 Ramirez must go because he simply cannot hit post.

Ramirez has been better his entire career, at a more important position. He's having a tough year, but still drives in big runs and hits with men on base. He has a long history of being a plus hitter relative to his position.

 

I've never seen Sox fans make more excuses for an awful hitter. Beckham has sucked for a long, long time.

[StrangeSox]

I could turn that question around to the naysayers on this site. Gordon Bewckham was rushed to the majors and in his 4 years had to learn basically two new positions over his original college SS days. Gordon Beckham has shown the ability all he needs is the confidence. I am not aure you can expect a turnaround during reguar season but hed does work on improving. The glove is super. I think at the very least the off season will give him a chance to get straightened out

[citation needed]

[StrangeSox]

I've never seen Sox fans make more excuses for an awful hitter. Beckham has sucked for a long, long time.

 

Brian Anderson?

[BigSqwert]

I could turn that question around to the naysayers on this site. Gordon Bewckham was rushed to the majors and in his 4 years had to learn basically two new positions over his original college SS days. Gordon Beckham has shown the ability all he needs is the confidence. I am not aure you can expect a turnaround during reguar season but hed does work on improving. The glove is super. I think at the very least the off season will give him a chance to get straightened out

Case closed.

 

/thread

[Steve9347]

You can twist data to mean anything you want it to.

There's no twisting data when I look at 1,055 straight at-bats of a .648 OPS, I see a f***ing bad baseball player. Tell me how you can twist Gordon Beckham's stats and find someone who doesn't suck at baseball.

 

Seriously, you state right above you can twist data to mean anything you want it to, so do just that and tell me he doesn't suck with stats. Saying he's "streaky" isn't good enough, because at the end of the day his OPS+ is F*CKING 66.

[Jake]

I think OPS sucks as the key evaluator of offense (especially from a middle infielder) but there can't be any stats that make Gordon look good right now. People get paid big bucks to see things that the stats don't show, but many more lose their jobs for thinking they see things that the stats don't show. I'm sure the fate of Gordon Beckham is a hot topic in our front office. I have a feeling Kenny Williams sees a lot of himself in Gordon, which is likely not the most comforting feeling.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Jake

[Caesar]

Beckham is a bust. End of story.

[Steve9347]

I think OPS sucks as the key evaluator of offense (especially from a middle infielder) but there can't be any stats that make Gordon look good right now. People get paid big bucks to see things that the stats don't show, but many more lose their jobs for thinking they see things that the stats don't show. I'm sure the fate of Gordon Beckham is a hot topic in our front office. I have a feeling Kenny Williams sees a lot of himself in Gordon, which is likely not the most comforting feeling.

Yeah. It's not easy giving up on someone everyone here thought was going to be one of our next great ballplayers. I've made excuses for Gordon for long-enough. Every now and then he hits the ball hard for a week and we all get excited. I still have a Beckham jersey, hell, I'll be wearing it to the ballpark on Friday, but the guy isn't turning it around at this point. He's a blackhole in this offense.

[Steve9347]

As for all this Alexei Ramirez talk, I've pointed out before that he's consistently regressed, too. He has yet to match his rookie season from 5 years ago. However, he has consistently shown the ability to post an OPS over .700, and even though somehow he has a putrid .636 OPS this season, it's at least been productive. He's hit .260 (guess what, still no eye) and he's knocked in 5 fewer runs than Paul Konerko.

 

Either way, they both are s***ty, but Gordon's grievances are far worse.

[TaylorStSox]

It's a shame that fans think Ramirez is s***ty despite having a good bat and ++glove. To even compare him to Beckham is s***ty. Seriously, they're nothing alike. Ramirez' bad year is ahead of anything Beckham is capable of producing.

[Jake]

Alexei Ramirez with RISP: .350 AVG, .846 OPS

2 outs, RISP: .318/.788

WAR: 1.1 bWAR, .7 fWAR

 

The thing that sticks out to me in Alexei's numbers is that his walk rate is way down. I don't have a good explanation for this other than perhaps the lack of power has pitchers unafraid to go right at him. I would say it could be related to his somewhat diminished role given the breaking out of Dunn, Rios, AJP, Youk, ADA...but it isn't like Alexei was ever a truly featured hitter. It could easily be the opposite of what I think, that a poor eye is preventing the power from coming out rather than vice versa.