Beckham having a rough second half

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Ok, for 5 at bats he will be out 4 or 5 times. With 6, he will be out 5 or 6. Most players don't keep scaling down like that...he does. Not to mention, he does it almost every night.

 

So the first bolded would mean his batting average would be between .000 and .200

 

The second bolded would mean his batting average would be between .000 and .167

 

.230 .283 .361

 

Actually, they do confirm it. He hits safely less just 23% of the time. What's worse, he gets on base only 28% of the time.

 

He's one of the worst hitters in baseball.

 

Period.

 

But wait, you proved it isn't.

 

Thanks.

 

[Y2HH]

So the first bolded would mean his batting average would be between .000 and .200

 

The second bolded would mean his batting average would be between .000 and .167

 

 

 

But wait, you proved it isn't.

 

Thanks.

 

Oh, just shut up. Beckham sucks.

 

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit...but not a lot. Stop defending his s***ty offensive play.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Oh, just shut up. Beckham sucks.

 

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit...but not a lot. Stop defending his s***ty offensive play.

 

Nice.

 

I'm sorry that others are looking at things differently than you. Continuing whining and acting like a prick though, it's what everyone wants to hear.

 

Good job!

[Y2HH]

Nice.

 

I'm sorry that others are looking at things differently than you. Continuing whining and acting like a prick though, it's what everyone wants to hear.

 

Good job!

 

Others are looking at what differently than me? Are you saying Beckham is good offensively without having the balls to say it?

 

Nice job calling me a prick, too.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Others are looking at what differently than me? Are you saying Beckham is good offensively without having the balls to say it?

 

Nice job calling me a prick, too.

 

You mean like the 5 or 6 people who responded to the dWAR remark with rationale and examples and the response you gave them was something like "Yeah, i read them but Beckham still sucks"? Yeah, maybe that for one.

 

Also, the hyperbolic Gordon Beckham is the worst player in the league non-sense is ridiculous. NSS in particular has commented on how he has looked in recent weeks and made much more in depth posts about it. Don't think I've ever said he's good offensively but he's better than the black hole you are painting him as.

 

And I didn't call you one, I called how you were acting one. Nice job reading though.

[Balta1701]

What's "slightly better production?" Beckham's been among the worst hitters in baseball for 3 years. He's starting to make Nix look good.

Right now, the average #9 hitter in the AL has an OPS of .640. Beckham has been better than that. He's among the worst hitters in baseball if you're compiling the 100 or so worst position playing hitters in baseball and excluding pitchers.

 

This thread exists in the first place because Gordon was supposed to be better than this. He was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be hitting .300 with 25 HR ever year. He's not. So, rather than focus on what he actually is doing, which is filling a hole cheaply, it's much more fun to say things like "He sucks!".

[Dick Allen]

Oh, just shut up. Beckham sucks.

 

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit...but not a lot. Stop defending his s***ty offensive play.

So you're exaggerating 70 points. So why don't we exaggerate 70 points the other way and call him an All Star?

[southsider2k5]

Oh, just shut up. Beckham sucks.

 

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit...but not a lot. Stop defending his s***ty offensive play.

 

 

Nice.

 

I'm sorry that others are looking at things differently than you. Continuing whining and acting like a prick though, it's what everyone wants to hear.

 

Good job!

 

 

Others are looking at what differently than me? Are you saying Beckham is good offensively without having the balls to say it?

 

Nice job calling me a prick, too.

 

 

You mean like the 5 or 6 people who responded to the dWAR remark with rationale and examples and the response you gave them was something like "Yeah, i read them but Beckham still sucks"? Yeah, maybe that for one.

 

Also, the hyperbolic Gordon Beckham is the worst player in the league non-sense is ridiculous. NSS in particular has commented on how he has looked in recent weeks and made much more in depth posts about it. Don't think I've ever said he's good offensively but he's better than the black hole you are painting him as.

 

And I didn't call you one, I called how you were acting one. Nice job reading though.

 

All righty guys, time to step away from each other.

[StrangeSox]

Right now, the average #9 hitter in the AL has an OPS of .640. Beckham has been better than that. He's among the worst hitters in baseball if you're compiling the 100 or so worst position playing hitters in baseball and excluding pitchers.

 

This thread exists in the first place because Gordon was supposed to be better than this. He was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be hitting .300 with 25 HR ever year. He's not. So, rather than focus on what he actually is doing, which is filling a hole cheaply, it's much more fun to say things like "He sucks!".

 

I'm fine with excluding pitchers from the "worst batters" chart.

[Y2HH]

Right now, the average #9 hitter in the AL has an OPS of .640. Beckham has been better than that. He's among the worst hitters in baseball if you're compiling the 100 or so worst position playing hitters in baseball and excluding pitchers.

 

This thread exists in the first place because Gordon was supposed to be better than this. He was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be hitting .300 with 25 HR ever year. He's not. So, rather than focus on what he actually is doing, which is filling a hole cheaply, it's much more fun to say things like "He sucks!".

 

Well, it is more fun, which is why I did it.

 

But you basically highlighted my entire point. People are defending his poor play because of what he was supposed to be...but at this point, it's clear he's never going to become that. We've all been damn patient waiting for him to come around, and it's been three years now...he's not coming around. He was picked and place on this team early because he was a future star...and he's been anything but. In the three years we've wasted waiting for him to blossom, we could have had a much better replacement. Nobody wanted that, including me...we saw something in Beckham and were hoping for the best. The best hasn't arrived, and won't be...IMO, we cut our losses with this sooner than later.

 

I don't think he's filling a hole, so much as he is helping to create one.

[Y2HH]

And I didn't call you one, I called how you were acting one. Nice job reading though.

 

So, we're allowed to call people names via the use of simple semantics/word games on this board now?

 

Good to know.

 

For the record, calling someone a prick and saying someone is acting like a prick...is the same thing.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

Well, it is more fun, which is why I did it.

 

But you basically highlighted my entire point. People are defending his poor play because of what he was supposed to be...but at this point, it's clear he's never going to become that. We've all been damn patient waiting for him to come around, and it's been three years now...he's not coming around. He was picked and place on this team early because he was a future star...and he's been anything but. In the three years we've wasted waiting for him to blossom, we could have had a much better replacement. Nobody wanted that, including me...we saw something in Beckham and were hoping for the best. The best hasn't arrived, and won't be...IMO, we cut our losses with this sooner than later.

 

I don't think he's filling a hole, so much as he is helping to create one.

Who? Where are you getting this person? What are we giving up to get it? Would you rather have spent our 2010 first round pick on another middle infielder? Should we have traded off Pierzynski or Konerko last offseason to free up the money to sign one?

 

You can't just magically pretend that a 2b will appear because we want one.

[Y2HH]

Who? Where are you getting this person? What are we giving up to get it? Would you rather have spent our 2010 first round pick on another middle infielder? Should we have traded off Pierzynski or Konerko last offseason to free up the money to sign one?

 

You can't just magically pretend that a 2b will appear because we want one.

 

This is the weakest non-question you could possibly ask, and I hate when people pose it when it comes to pro-sports. From the get go, it's an unfair question to even ask, as I'm not the Sox GM, so how could I possibly answer this?

 

There are a LOT of teams out there with a lot of players that could have been had. KW traded, or picked up 5 of them so far this year alone, and ALL of them were upgrades over what we had. It's not a reach to say a good replacement for Beckham couldn't have been found.

[Y2HH]

So you're exaggerating 70 points. So why don't we exaggerate 70 points the other way and call him an All Star?

 

My point was that I'm exaggerating how bad Beckham is offensively, but not by a lot. I wasn't speaking purely on the math/numbers of 70 points this way or that.

 

All of that garbage aside, here is what I'm saying: he's bad offensively.

 

Are you saying he's not? It's a yes or no question.

 

Oh, and Rush rules.

[Balta1701]

This is the weakest non-question you could possibly ask, and I hate when people pose it when it comes to pro-sports. From the get go, it's an unfair question to even ask, as I'm not the Sox GM, so how could I possibly answer this?

 

There are a LOT of teams out there with a lot of players that could have been had. KW traded, or picked up 5 of them so far this year alone, and ALL of them were upgrades over what we had. It's not a reach to say a good replacement for Beckham couldn't have been found.

Since Y2HH is passing and just blaming KW anyway...can someone else help him out here? I'm looking for a 2b or middle infielder who has moved this year who would be a substantial upgrade from Beckham and come with limited or no cost. Heck, you can add 2011 onto that list also.

 

The only starting 2b in the league who I can recognize that moved anywhere this year was Infante, and the Tigers gave up a top pitching prospect for him and Anibal Sanchez. The Shortstops I can see who moved were Stephen Drew and Hanley Ramirez. Drew was cheap but has been hurt and is pretty much regarded as a bust himself, HanRam has a very high price.

Here's the list of free agents last offseason. Guys signing for close to the minimum include Theriot, Jeff Keppinger, Omar Vizquel, Jack Wilson, Drew Sutton, Aaron Miles, Will Rhymes, Jose Lopez (already got him), Adam Kennedy, Bill Hall, Carlos Guillen, Brooks Conrad, Andres Blanco. Guys who signed at $3-4 million a year, "goodbye AJ" money, include Mark Ellis and Jamey Carroll.

 

Please, enlighten me where this magical upgrade you envision would come from.

[Y2HH]

Since Y2HH is passing and just blaming KW anyway...can someone else help him out here? I'm looking for a 2b or middle infielder who has moved this year who would be a substantial upgrade from Beckham and come with limited or no cost. Heck, you can add 2011 onto that list also.

 

The only starting 2b in the league who I can recognize that moved anywhere this year was Infante, and the Tigers gave up a top pitching prospect for him and Anibal Sanchez. The Shortstops I can see who moved were Stephen Drew and Hanley Ramirez. Drew was cheap but has been hurt and is pretty much regarded as a bust himself, HanRam has a very high price.

Here's the list of free agents last offseason. Guys signing for close to the minimum include Theriot, Jeff Keppinger, Omar Vizquel, Jack Wilson, Drew Sutton, Aaron Miles, Will Rhymes, Jose Lopez (already got him), Adam Kennedy, Bill Hall, Carlos Guillen, Brooks Conrad, Andres Blanco. Guys who signed at $3-4 million a year, "goodbye AJ" money, include Mark Ellis and Jamey Carroll.

 

Please, enlighten me where this magical upgrade you envision would come from.

 

I'd sooner use a minor leaguer in our system to replace Beckham at this point...and I hope we do come September. I only wish the person was elegible to play in the post season if they happen to catch fire. I just don't see Beckham turning it on when we need him. I realize this is merely b****ing for the sake of b****ing, as there probably is no viable way to fix this in the short term...but why does that mean it cannot be talked about? That's sports talk...welcome too it.

 

Beckham is bad, and he's become a drag on this team. If it's just an opinion, as people seem to feel to needlessly point out because most sports talk is opinion based, why can't people say what they feel? I feel Beckham sucks so badly offensively that ANYONE would be better option.

 

Oh, and I'm not blaming Kenny. KW is a great GM IMO...this year he's 5/5 on the moves he's made and deserves credit for them all. So he did nothing to fix the Beckham situation...I'm not blaming him for that. I wish the Beckham situation was fixed, but just because it wasn't doesn't mean I'm going to say KW sucks...because he doesn't.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Y2HH

[chw42]

Since Y2HH is passing and just blaming KW anyway...can someone else help him out here? I'm looking for a 2b or middle infielder who has moved this year who would be a substantial upgrade from Beckham and come with limited or no cost. Heck, you can add 2011 onto that list also.

 

The only starting 2b in the league who I can recognize that moved anywhere this year was Infante, and the Tigers gave up a top pitching prospect for him and Anibal Sanchez. The Shortstops I can see who moved were Stephen Drew and Hanley Ramirez. Drew was cheap but has been hurt and is pretty much regarded as a bust himself, HanRam has a very high price.

Here's the list of free agents last offseason. Guys signing for close to the minimum include Theriot, Jeff Keppinger, Omar Vizquel, Jack Wilson, Drew Sutton, Aaron Miles, Will Rhymes, Jose Lopez (already got him), Adam Kennedy, Bill Hall, Carlos Guillen, Brooks Conrad, Andres Blanco. Guys who signed at $3-4 million a year, "goodbye AJ" money, include Mark Ellis and Jamey Carroll.

 

Please, enlighten me where this magical upgrade you envision would come from.

 

Jeff Keppinger.

[southsider2k5]

I guarantee you that if you asked Peavy that question, he would turn it around to how many runs they saved him with their defense. For example, the Tigers have given up 58 unearned runs. The Sox have given up 25. That is a 33 run difference over the season. Divided by where we are in the season, that is about a quarter of a run, PER GAME, difference. That is a huge number. That is the difference between a 4.00 and 3.75 era if the runs were earned. Those are runs that the team doesn't have to score over.

 

That doesn't even begin to count things like runs saved by big defensive plays, the extra pitches put on a starter after an error, having to pitch an extra middle reliever because the starter had to throw an extra 10-15 pitches to pitch over an error, etc.

 

It isn't just offense that matters. Ask the Tigers how that is working out for them.

 

Here is another way of putting this. The differentials in run differential between the Sox and Tigers is 45 (Sox are +71, Tigers +26). 33 of those runs can be explained in the differences between unearned runs allowed.

[Balta1701]

Jeff Keppinger.

You'd have predidcted that a 32 year old journeyman who put up a .677 OPS part time for the Astros and Giants last year could come up and put together an .800+ OPS as a part time fill in for the Rays, and then you want to put that guy as a full time 2b option?

 

I applaud you.

[Y2HH]

You'd have predidcted that a 32 year old journeyman who put up a .677 OPS part time for the Astros and Giants last year could come up and put together an .800+ OPS as a part time fill in for the Rays, and then you want to put that guy as a full time 2b option?

 

I applaud you.

 

The same thing could have been said about Youk at 3B.

 

Things like this happen.

 

I know, it's crazy to have opinions about baseball players on a baseball forum and all...but just because we're stuck with Beckham doesn't mean I can't say I think he sucks. That seems to be a huge problem around here...and I don't really understand why.

[NorthSideSox72]

The same thing could have been said about Youk at 3B.

 

Things like this happen.

 

I know, it's crazy to have opinions about baseball players on a baseball forum and all...but just because we're stuck with Beckham doesn't mean I can't say I think he sucks. That seems to be a huge problem around here...and I don't really understand why.

The problem isn't you stating you think Beckham should be replaced. The problem is the way you say it.

 

If Beckham doesn't improve a lot the rest of this year and first half next year, you will likely see one Carlos Sanchez promoted to take his job and make Gordo a utility IF. Sanchez was just promoted to AAA, by the way, at age 20.

 

[TaylorStSox]

So you're exaggerating 70 points. So why don't we exaggerate 70 points the other way and call him an All Star?

Beckham's so bad if you added 70 points to his BA, he probably still wouldn't be an All Star.

[Y2HH]

The problem isn't you stating you think Beckham should be replaced. The problem is the way you say it.

 

If Beckham doesn't improve a lot the rest of this year and first half next year, you will likely see one Carlos Sanchez promoted to take his job and make Gordo a utility IF. Sanchez was just promoted to AAA, by the way, at age 20.

 

The problem is, since around 2006 on Soxtalk, when it comes to baseball discussion, nobodies opinions are accepted as mere opinions...they're accepted as correct OR incorrect.

[Balta1701]

The same thing could have been said about Youk at 3B.

 

Things like this happen.

 

I know, it's crazy to have opinions about baseball players on a baseball forum and all...but just because we're stuck with Beckham doesn't mean I can't say I think he sucks. That seems to be a huge problem around here...and I don't really understand why.

really, no it coudln't have been. Kevin Youkilis was coming in to replace some of the worst production in the big leagues. This counts both offense and defense. Morel couldn't hit or field with his back problems, Hudson was marginally better with the bat but was costing games in the field even more than Morel.

[Y2HH]

Beckham's so bad if you added 70 points to his BA, he probably still wouldn't be an All Star.

 

Don't use sarcasm here...they're going to add up his current average with the .70, and tell you he'd be hitting 310. You can't exaggerate here, even if it's pretty obvious that's what you're doing.