8/24 Mariners at White Sox

[iamshack]

I really don't think he did. Humber needs to grow a nut and get 3 outs. Veal, one pitch double to a .239 hitter. And reed walks two and gives up 5 runs. This one is on the players to me. Robin has had bad nights but I didn't think this was one of them

It's easy to second guess...but we were up 4 runs still with a man on first...at the very minimum you give him one more hitter...I was angry enough we even had to use Reed, let alone before he blew the lead.

 

Humber gave up a home run to a good hitter, got an easy out, and then walked Smoak on a couple of high curve balls when the guy's swing is so long right now I don't know why you are even throwing curve balls.

 

Sometimes s*** happens and you're not going to get a 1-2-3 inning....but no need to panic with your pitcher when he records 1 out in the first three batters with a 5 run-lead in my opinion...

[fathom]

He had that ball in his glove for a good 2-3 steps before the collision (just watched the replay 2-3 times).

 

It won't be overturned, but it was a catch IMO.

 

Read the rulebook statement I posted. Not a catch.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

When has ANY team in baseball ever had a protest upheld and the results of a previous game overturned?

George Brett's pine tar game comes to mind.

[fathom]

He had that ball in his glove for a good 2-3 steps before the collision (just watched the replay 2-3 times).

 

It won't be overturned, but it was a catch IMO.

 

DEPENDS on the definition of "immediately following."

 

Two or three strides with the ball, to me, isn't immediately following or simultaneously.

 

If you think about the catch in the context of someone running into the gap to catch a line drive, they could have it in their glove for a few steps and if it comes flying out when they're not trying to transfer it to make a throw, it's definitely going to be ruled a non catch.

[iamshack]

I agree. People complain about slow hooks, they complain about quick hooks. I personally like the quick hook. Humber wasn't good tonight. Veal gave up a hit to the only batter he faced and Reed didn't have it. I don't know how that's on Ventura, but a few people here know how to manage a lot better than he does, and after the fact, if what he does didn't work, they'll let you know their genius.

Blah...every time you bring in another arm you risk entering into the equation a guy who "doesn't have it" tonight.

 

With a 5 run lead you don't need to manage the game like it's a 2-run lead.

 

 

[lostfan]

Quit your f***ing b****ing about comments then.

You need to settle down.

[caulfield12]

Read the rulebook statement I posted. Not a catch.

 

 

How much time is simultaneously or immediately following?

 

It's a judgement call, still.

 

It happened so fast in real time, but if you slow it down on a video....could go either way.

 

Just like in the NFL, if the RF was a wide receiver and he held the ball that long and then got hit, would it be a fumble or an incompletion?

[iamshack]

He had that ball in his glove for a good 2-3 steps before the collision (just watched the replay 2-3 times).

 

It won't be overturned, but it was a catch IMO.

 

DEPENDS on the definition of "immediately following."

 

Two or three strides with the ball, to me, isn't immediately following or simultaneously.

Two-three steps take literally a second or less...pretty sure that is the meaning of "immediate" when it comes to baseball.

 

This isn't track and field or something.

[fathom]

Put it this way...I checked out a Seattle Mariners message board, and not a single Seattle fan is arguing if it was a catch or not.

[fathom]

How much time is simultaneously or immediately following?

 

It's a judgement call, still.

 

It happened so fast in real time, but if you slow it down on a video....could go either way.

 

Just like in the NFL, if the RF was a wide receiver and he held the ball that long and then got hit, would it be a fumble or an incompletion?

 

If there were two outs when PK hit it, then the call by the umpire would have been even more important. Not a chance they could call that a catch. Didn't Wise have a single against the Blue Jays in similar fashion where Encarnacion dropped it after a few seconds?

[cabiness42]

Put it this way...I checked out a Seattle Mariners message board, and not a single Seattle fan is arguing if it was a catch or not.

 

I'm pretty sure Wise was standing on second when the ball was caught (or not caught), so the run counts either way. The only difference is whether Konerko gets a hit or a sac fly.

[Kyyle23]

It's easy to second guess...but we were up 4 runs still with a man on first...at the very minimum you give him one more hitter...I was angry enough we even had to use Reed, let alone before he blew the lead.

 

Humber gave up a home run to a good hitter, got an easy out, and then walked Smoak on a couple of high curve balls when the guy's swing is so long right now I don't know why you are even throwing curve balls.

 

Sometimes s*** happens and you're not going to get a 1-2-3 inning....but no need to panic with your pitcher when he records 1 out in the first three batters with a 5 run-lead in my opinion...

 

I just dont think Humber has earned the trust this season to get the benefit of the doubt after he gives up a homer and then a walk.

 

I'm most disappointed in reed and the pitch calling. He was killing the Yankees with the straight change and he tries to blow away Jaso with three straight fastballs. Mind boggling

[caulfield12]

It really doesn't matter.

 

Nobody but Ackley had a chance to throw out Wise.

 

As long as Wise had tagged, he obviously scores, catch or non-catch.

 

But an interesting rules debate, nevertheless.

[caulfield12]

I just dont think Humber has earned the trust this season to get the benefit of the doubt after he gives up a homer and then a walk.

 

I'm most disappointed in reed and the pitch calling. He was killing the Yankees with the straight change and he tries to blow away Jaso with three straight fastballs. Mind boggling

 

 

Which is all on AJ.

 

Chris Sale said in an interview he's never shaken off Pierzynski his entire Sox career. Kind of doubt Reed would be making his own choices on pitch selection, either.

 

Addison Reed=Grant Balfour

Edited August 25, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

I just dont think Humber has earned the trust this season to get the benefit of the doubt after he gives up a homer and then a walk.

 

I'm most disappointed in reed and the pitch calling. He was killing the Yankees with the straight change and he tries to blow away Jaso with three straight fastballs. Mind boggling

Here's the thing, everyone complaining now would have been complaining had Ventura stuck with Humber and he blew the game, they would have wondered why the closer wasn't used, its a tight playoff race, its obvious Humber didn't have it..........At least they came back and won. Its too bad Humber put the Sox in the situation where it was even a consideration he get lifted.

[fathom]

I just dont think Humber has earned the trust this season to get the benefit of the doubt after he gives up a homer and then a walk.

 

I'm most disappointed in reed and the pitch calling. He was killing the Yankees with the straight change and he tries to blow away Jaso with three straight fastballs. Mind boggling

 

The first time Reed faced Jaso this season, he gassed him with the high fastball to strike him out. The next time, they tried the same pitch and he ripped a double. Obviously, the Sox scouting report is to throw him high fastballs. I also think AJ was worried about Reed's change-up being bad tonight, as Seager crushed the only change-up he threw near the plate. I do wish Reed could throw his slider to lefties a little more effectively.

[iamshack]

I just dont think Humber has earned the trust this season to get the benefit of the doubt after he gives up a homer and then a walk.

 

I'm most disappointed in reed and the pitch calling. He was killing the Yankees with the straight change and he tries to blow away Jaso with three straight fastballs. Mind boggling

I would buy that argument if you had a better option to bring in than Veal against a righty and a cold Reed.

 

Humber has shown on several occasions this year where he will struggle a bit initially before settling down. He was nowhere near in danger of blowing that lead when he was pulled. I can understand pulling him before he gets in that danger, but not if you don't have a better option to bring in at that point.

 

As for the pitch selection to Jaso, I couldn't agree more. Obviously Reed couldn't throw anything else for a strike at that point, but they certainly should have tried at least one offspeed pitch in that situation IMHO.

[caulfield12]

They were fine until the Robinson double.

 

Then panic set in...and you just felt it slipping away. 3 walks in that inning, or was it just 2? At any rate, WAY too many.

 

 

[iamshack]

Here's the thing, everyone complaining now would have been complaining had Ventura stuck with Humber and he blew the game, they would have wondered why the closer wasn't used, its a tight playoff race, its obvious Humber didn't have it..........At least they came back and won. Its too bad Humber put the Sox in the situation where it was even a consideration he get lifted.

I know DA has me on ignore so he won't see this, but this is just nonsense.

 

I highly doubt there would be a huge line of people ripping Ventura for allowing Humber to try and face at least one more hitter. People would have been pissed at Humber at that point, yes, but not really Robin. Even if Humber had faced Robinson and given up a home run at that point, you STILL have a 2-run lead with no one on base, and then you bring in Reed with the bases empty and 1-out witb a 2-run cushion.

 

That would hardly be putting him in a rough spot.

 

[fathom]

DJ supposedly thought that Wedge was arguing that PK passed Youk on the bases. However, according to this article I found, Wise would still be allowed to score even if that happened as PK would be called out for out #2.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/da.../1#.UDhKydZlSOg

[Jake]

It really doesn't matter.

 

Nobody but Ackley had a chance to throw out Wise.

 

As long as Wise had tagged, he obviously scores, catch or non-catch.

 

But an interesting rules debate, nevertheless.

 

Wise was on second base.

[caulfield12]

DJ supposedly thought that Wedge was arguing that PK passed Youk on the bases. However, according to this article I found, Wise would still be allowed to score even if that happened as PK would be called out for out #2.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/da.../1#.UDhKydZlSOg

 

 

But then that would make the argument it was actually a catch relevant again, because the out on the basepaths and the catch being the 2nd/3rd out.

 

Didn't even pay attention to what was going on with anyone besides Wise at 2nd, though. Very smart observation by Wedge there...he never has been in that "intellectual" category of managers like Scioscia, LaRussa, Maddon, etc.

[Steve9347]

That game was f***ing awesome. You know, after they won. Because when they blew that lead i wanted to f***ing murder someone.

[caulfield12]

Wise was on second base.

 

 

Yeah, I know.

 

He tags up and scores all the way from 2nd because both outfielders were down and Ackley was nowhere close to being able to retrieve the ball, turn around and throw it with all of his momentum going away from the play.

 

It would have been a relay throw. No way he makes a throw to the plate from deep RCF in that situation.

[fathom]

But then that would make the argument it was actually a catch relevant again, because the out on the basepaths and the catch being the 2nd/3rd out.

 

Didn't even pay attention to what was going on with anyone besides Wise at 2nd, though. Very smart observation by Wedge there...he never has been in that "intellectual" category of managers like Scioscia, LaRussa, Maddon, etc.

 

If they ruled it a catch, PK would have been ruled out and Youk wouldn't have been regardless of whether or not PK passed him.