What's wrong with Paul Konerko?

[southsider2k5]

So basically, what I said all season. He continued to play hurt instead of getting it taken care of early and possibly coming back to actually help the team in Septemeber he chose to "play through it" and shug his shoulders every time he swung the bat.

 

I thought yesterday you were saying he was a choker?

[Iwritecode]

other players like Rios seem to get a free pass when they stink (last year).

 

I know you like to make up "facts" to support your arguments but really?

 

I don't remember anyone on here giving Rios a free pass last year.

[iamshack]

He's not that old. At least he doesn't lie about his age like some big leaguers do. Not putting words in your mouth, but there's something about Paulie that makes people get on him whereas other players like Rios seem to get a free pass when they stink (last year). I've never understood what makes some players likeable and some not.

He definitely is held to a higher standard, and he should be. He is the team's most visible player. He hits cleanup. He makes a lot of money.

 

He earned a lot of that money in the first two months, and then was pretty mediocre for the rest of the year.

 

I don't want to crucify him, I just didn't want him hitting cleanup anymore.

[Cali]

I thought yesterday you were saying he was a choker?

 

I said mentally weak.

 

This wasn't a mentally weak thing he did, it was just a stupid thing he did. He could have done an additional surgery in July and came back in September fresh and ready to hit. They way Paulie was hitting during that time Johnson could have easily come up from Charlotte and matched that production while he was on the DL and maybe just maybe the Captain could have done SOMETHING in September.

[Doc Edwards Shot]

I know you like to make up "facts" to support your arguments but really?

 

I don't remember anyone on here giving Rios a free pass last year.

Rios has been consistently ripped apart by frustrated fans through the course of his entire tenure with the Sox.

There has never been a free pass.

[Cali]

He's not that old. At least he doesn't lie about his age like some big leaguers do. Not putting words in your mouth, but there's something about Paulie that makes people get on him whereas other players like Rios seem to get a free pass when they stink (last year). I've never understood what makes some players likeable and some not.

 

Be honest you'd give lifetime contracts to Paulie and AJ and Buehrle no matter what age they were just because they won a Series with the Sox. Age be damned, right?

 

And yes 36 is 100% old in the baseball world. Unless you're a roided out freak like Bonds you will start getting worse after 35

[CyAcosta41]

So basically, what I said all season. He continued to play hurt instead of getting it taken care of early and possibly coming back to actually help the team in Septemeber he chose to "play through it" and shug his shoulders every time he swung the bat.

 

No offense, man, but me and many others who watch often and closely have been saying the same thing for months. I personally had various comments about this on this board and others for months, including a few weeks ago putting the over-under at something like 5-7 days after the end of the season when it would be disclosed that Konerko was undergoing wrist surgery.

 

Like every player in baseball, he's had his share of slumps, but this was completely different. Slump or no slump, Konerko could always turn around ANYBODY'S fastball. Always. Post All Star break, he was consistently getting beat by major league average fastballs. Once the word got out (and it always does), down the stretch virtually every pitcher in baseball was challenging him with heat (knowing the only way he could turn one around was if he cheated big-time, but, more often than not, he was just looking to slap one the other way anyway). He became a totally different hitter.

 

I've always been a major Konerko fan, but there's a point where tough-guy and macho turns into stupidity and selfishness. Soon, we had no "fear factor" going in the middle of the lineup -- between three outcome Dunn and the slap-hitting ghost that formerly was Paul Konerko, it's little wonder that we posed little threat to good teams, hot teams, or plain old teams who for whatever reason get up especially for the Sox.

 

For that charade to go on for as long as it did was a total slap in the face to knowledgeable fans who understand the game. And for Konerko to come right out and say with 2-3 games left in the year, (paraphrasing) "yeah, the wrist is damaged ... but I don't think it affected my performance," is another slap in the face. Sure it affected your performance. Every advance scout in baseball could see it.

 

And while I'm on a roll, I generally really liked what Ventura did this year as a first year manager (especially the emphasis on fundamentals and focusing on one game at a time), but ALLOWING a clearly damaged PK to play everyday ... in the #4 hole ... is on him as well. He runs the team. Whether Konerko wants to be Mr. Man or not and play hurt/damaged, Ventura needed to be a strong enough manager/leader to tell him to get his butt off the field.

Edited October 4, 2012 by CyAcosta41

[cabiness42]

Sutures will be removed from Konerko's wrist in 7-10 days. He will be examined by a Sox hand specialist in AZ and should be ready for ST

 

Let me know when they get that 7-10 day time frame narrowed. I'm planning a Konerko Suture Removal party.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

So basically, what I said all season. He continued to play hurt instead of getting it taken care of early and possibly coming back to actually help the team in Septemeber he chose to "play through it" and shug his shoulders every time he swung the bat.

How do we know he was playing hurt? He said it wasn't a problem since June. He's had this bone fragment in his wrist for a few years and it only bothered him when it got lodged in the joint restricting movement. When they flushed it to a different spot he was OK. He was planning on having this surgery since June to prevent the fragment from moving back into the joint in the future.

 

If being hurt was the reason for his poor numbers the last part of the season it may have had more to do with his back or his concussion than his wrist.

 

But it's also a possibility that he just had a bad streak. he's been known to have them before throughout his career. He's not getting any younger either.

Edited October 4, 2012 by South Side Fireworks Man

[kitekrazy]

How do we know he was playing hurt? He said it wasn't a problem since June. He's had this bone fragment in his wrist for a few years and it only bothered him when it got lodged in the joint restricting movement. When they flushed it to a different spot he was OK. He was planning on having this surgery since June to prevent the fragment from moving back into the joint in the future.

 

If being hurt was the reason for his poor numbers the last part of the season it may have had more to do with his back or his concussion than his wrist.

 

But it's also a possibility that he just had a bad streak. he's been known to have them before throughout his career. He's not getting any younger either.

 

 

People would prefer to make excuses and ignore such logic as this.

[BigSqwert]

No offense, man, but me and many others who watch often and closely have been saying the same thing for months. I personally had various comments about this on this board and others for months, including a few weeks ago putting the over-under at something like 5-7 days after the end of the season when it would be disclosed that Konerko was undergoing wrist surgery.

 

Like every player in baseball, he's had his share of slumps, but this was completely different. Slump or no slump, Konerko could always turn around ANYBODY'S fastball. Always. Post All Star break, he was consistently getting beat by major league average fastballs. Once the word got out (and it always does), down the stretch virtually every pitcher in baseball was challenging him with heat (knowing the only way he could turn one around was if he cheated big-time, but, more often than not, he was just looking to slap one the other way anyway). He became a totally different hitter.

 

I've always been a major Konerko fan, but there's a point where tough-guy and macho turns into stupidity and selfishness. Soon, we had no "fear factor" going in the middle of the lineup -- between three outcome Dunn and the slap-hitting ghost that formerly was Paul Konerko, it's little wonder that we posed little threat to good teams, hot teams, or plain old teams who for whatever reason get up especially for the Sox.

 

For that charade to go on for as long as it did was a total slap in the face to knowledgeable fans who understand the game. And for Konerko to come right out and say with 2-3 games left in the year, (paraphrasing) "yeah, the wrist is damaged ... but I don't think it affected my performance," is another slap in the face. Sure it affected your performance. Every advance scout in baseball could see it.

 

And while I'm on a roll, I generally really liked what Ventura did this year as a first year manager (especially the emphasis on fundamentals and focusing on one game at a time), but ALLOWING a clearly damaged PK to play everyday ... in the #4 hole ... is on him as well. He runs the team. Whether Konerko wants to be Mr. Man or not and play hurt/damaged, Ventura needed to be a strong enough manager/leader to tell him to get his butt off the field.

 

 

Brilliant!

[LittleHurt05]

No offense, man, but me and many others who watch often and closely have been saying the same thing for months. I personally had various comments about this on this board and others for months, including a few weeks ago putting the over-under at something like 5-7 days after the end of the season when it would be disclosed that Konerko was undergoing wrist surgery.

 

Like every player in baseball, he's had his share of slumps, but this was completely different. Slump or no slump, Konerko could always turn around ANYBODY'S fastball. Always. Post All Star break, he was consistently getting beat by major league average fastballs. Once the word got out (and it always does), down the stretch virtually every pitcher in baseball was challenging him with heat (knowing the only way he could turn one around was if he cheated big-time, but, more often than not, he was just looking to slap one the other way anyway). He became a totally different hitter.

 

I've always been a major Konerko fan, but there's a point where tough-guy and macho turns into stupidity and selfishness. Soon, we had no "fear factor" going in the middle of the lineup -- between three outcome Dunn and the slap-hitting ghost that formerly was Paul Konerko, it's little wonder that we posed little threat to good teams, hot teams, or plain old teams who for whatever reason get up especially for the Sox.

 

For that charade to go on for as long as it did was a total slap in the face to knowledgeable fans who understand the game. And for Konerko to come right out and say with 2-3 games left in the year, (paraphrasing) "yeah, the wrist is damaged ... but I don't think it affected my performance," is another slap in the face. Sure it affected your performance. Every advance scout in baseball could see it.

 

And while I'm on a roll, I generally really liked what Ventura did this year as a first year manager (especially the emphasis on fundamentals and focusing on one game at a time), but ALLOWING a clearly damaged PK to play everyday ... in the #4 hole ... is on him as well. He runs the team. Whether Konerko wants to be Mr. Man or not and play hurt/damaged, Ventura needed to be a strong enough manager/leader to tell him to get his butt off the field.

 

A+. Great post, I concur 100%.

 

It's one thing to be tough and play hurt, but when you have a physical injury that drastically hurts your performance, sometimes it's better to be smart than tough.

[2nd_city_saint787]

No offense, man, but me and many others who watch often and closely have been saying the same thing for months. I personally had various comments about this on this board and others for months, including a few weeks ago putting the over-under at something like 5-7 days after the end of the season when it would be disclosed that Konerko was undergoing wrist surgery.

 

Like every player in baseball, he's had his share of slumps, but this was completely different. Slump or no slump, Konerko could always turn around ANYBODY'S fastball. Always. Post All Star break, he was consistently getting beat by major league average fastballs. Once the word got out (and it always does), down the stretch virtually every pitcher in baseball was challenging him with heat (knowing the only way he could turn one around was if he cheated big-time, but, more often than not, he was just looking to slap one the other way anyway). He became a totally different hitter.

 

I've always been a major Konerko fan, but there's a point where tough-guy and macho turns into stupidity and selfishness. Soon, we had no "fear factor" going in the middle of the lineup -- between three outcome Dunn and the slap-hitting ghost that formerly was Paul Konerko, it's little wonder that we posed little threat to good teams, hot teams, or plain old teams who for whatever reason get up especially for the Sox.

 

For that charade to go on for as long as it did was a total slap in the face to knowledgeable fans who understand the game. And for Konerko to come right out and say with 2-3 games left in the year, (paraphrasing) "yeah, the wrist is damaged ... but I don't think it affected my performance," is another slap in the face. Sure it affected your performance. Every advance scout in baseball could see it.

 

And while I'm on a roll, I generally really liked what Ventura did this year as a first year manager (especially the emphasis on fundamentals and focusing on one game at a time), but ALLOWING a clearly damaged PK to play everyday ... in the #4 hole ... is on him as well. He runs the team. Whether Konerko wants to be Mr. Man or not and play hurt/damaged, Ventura needed to be a strong enough manager/leader to tell him to get his butt off the field.

 

Well said sir. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

And I've really came around on the last few paragraphs. I've been wanting to say this for the past view days but I've been playing the part of Mr. Brightside over here. I've just been waiting for someone to say it (almost expecting it in rebuttal of what I've been saying)....

 

This team probably coulda won a few more games had they went with a DH platoon. Somethin like T Flo vs LHP and Johnson/Wise vs RHP..

 

I don't know how long it takes to recover from wrist surgery but if they could have gotten it out of the way earlier and he could have came back for the playoffs that woulda been pretty fancy. I hope it would have been season ending.

 

 

I feel like I just turned heel.

 

 

 

 

[greg775]

So basically, what I said all season. He continued to play hurt instead of getting it taken care of early and possibly coming back to actually help the team in Septemeber he chose to "play through it" and shug his shoulders every time he swung the bat.

If it was a problem, the team should have shut him down. How come last year you all blamed Ozzie for not benching Dunn and Rios and this year you blame Paulie for not shutting himself down? How come Robin or KW didn't just tell Paulie he was going to get it fixed and come back AFTER surgery?? Why is this on the player who f***ing tried to help his team like a true captain???

 

Be honest you'd give lifetime contracts to Paulie and AJ and Buehrle no matter what age they were just because they won a Series with the Sox. Age be damned, right?

 

And yes 36 is 100% old in the baseball world. Unless you're a roided out freak like Bonds you will start getting worse after 35

 

Mark should be with the Sox still. I firmly believe we'd have won the division with him. AJ deserves another 2 year deal for current production. Paulie the same thing. Two more years.

[southsider2k5]

[/b]

 

 

People would prefer to make excuses and ignore such logic as this.

 

I would call hand waving wrist surgery away as ignoring logic, but that is just me apparently.

[southsider2k5]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1358124...-eve-of-surgery

 

Chicago White Sox first baseman Paul Konerko is entering an offseason with a lot of unknowns. Following an up-and-down 2012 campaign, the White Sox captain definitely has a lot to prove next spring.

 

Konerko will have barely had the chance to clean out his locker before undergoing surgery on his left hand Thursday. The procedure involves removing a bone fragment that has hindered him on and off since the 2008 season.

 

Both this summer and in 2011, the White Sox slugger chose to address the issue with injections designed to move the fragment into a less painful part of the wrist joint. After capping off his season with a home run in Chicago's 9-0 win in Cleveland Wednesday, Konerko was ready to take care of what has been a nagging problem.

 

Konerko's numbers don't really tell an accurate story of his production this season. A quick glance at his average and power numbers suggest an effort in the ballpark of his work in each of the last two seasons. A .298 average and 26 home runs isn't a terrible season for any full-time player, let alone a 36-year-old veteran.

 

However, it was a tale of two halves of the season for Konerko. Here's how his 144 games look split down the middle.

 

First 72 games: 267 AB, .337/.412/.551, 14 homers, 42 RBI, .963 OPS

 

Last 72 games: 266 AB, 259/.328/.412, 12 homers, 33 RBI, .741 OPS

 

 

 

Can Paul Konerko successfully return from offseason surgery?

Yes No Submit Vote vote to see results

 

One half was All-Star worthy, the other not so much. The slide really began in late May, after Konerko posted a .399 average on May 26. From the next day until the All-Star break, his average was an anemic .236 and he managed just three home runs.

 

Jermaine Dye had a similar drop off in the second half of 2009. Despite season number of 27 homers and 81 RBI, Dye went home following the season and never came back. Konerko's drop off may not have been as drastic as Dye's was, but both players definitely wore down in a way the may not have in their 20's.

 

To be fair, Konerko did have the wrist issue as well as a concussion in August that saw him miss a week of games. However, in each of the last two seasons he has faded as the season has progressed.

 

Konerko has a contract for 2013 and the fact that he's getting his wrist taken care of so quickly points to a return next spring. He isn't using the bone fragment as an excuse for his second half slide, but it's a good bet it may have been a contributing factor.

 

Konerko turns 37 next March. He has hit .297 over the last four seasons and put up impressive numbers in that time. Will a repaired Konerko be able to defy the aging process for what may be his final season? That question may prove more difficult to answer going into this winter.

[ptatc]

No offense, man, but me and many others who watch often and closely have been saying the same thing for months. I personally had various comments about this on this board and others for months, including a few weeks ago putting the over-under at something like 5-7 days after the end of the season when it would be disclosed that Konerko was undergoing wrist surgery.

 

Like every player in baseball, he's had his share of slumps, but this was completely different. Slump or no slump, Konerko could always turn around ANYBODY'S fastball. Always. Post All Star break, he was consistently getting beat by major league average fastballs. Once the word got out (and it always does), down the stretch virtually every pitcher in baseball was challenging him with heat (knowing the only way he could turn one around was if he cheated big-time, but, more often than not, he was just looking to slap one the other way anyway). He became a totally different hitter.

 

I've always been a major Konerko fan, but there's a point where tough-guy and macho turns into stupidity and selfishness. Soon, we had no "fear factor" going in the middle of the lineup -- between three outcome Dunn and the slap-hitting ghost that formerly was Paul Konerko, it's little wonder that we posed little threat to good teams, hot teams, or plain old teams who for whatever reason get up especially for the Sox.

 

For that charade to go on for as long as it did was a total slap in the face to knowledgeable fans who understand the game. And for Konerko to come right out and say with 2-3 games left in the year, (paraphrasing) "yeah, the wrist is damaged ... but I don't think it affected my performance," is another slap in the face. Sure it affected your performance. Every advance scout in baseball could see it.

 

And while I'm on a roll, I generally really liked what Ventura did this year as a first year manager (especially the emphasis on fundamentals and focusing on one game at a time), but ALLOWING a clearly damaged PK to play everyday ... in the #4 hole ... is on him as well. He runs the team. Whether Konerko wants to be Mr. Man or not and play hurt/damaged, Ventura needed to be a strong enough manager/leader to tell him to get his butt off the field.

It has absolutely nothing to do with this. It has everything to do with helping his team as much as possible. If he wasn't there who was going to take his place? It was a calculated risk that 4 months of an injured PK was going to be better than at least 2 months, if not more, of a lesser player. PK is not a person to put himself before the team. If he and Ventura thought the team would be better without him playing the way he was then it would have happened.

[CyAcosta41]

It has absolutely nothing to do with this. It has everything to do with helping his team as much as possible. If he wasn't there who was going to take his place? It was a calculated risk that 4 months of an injured PK was going to be better than at least 2 months, if not more, of a lesser player. PK is not a person to put himself before the team. If he and Ventura thought the team would be better without him playing the way he was then it would have happened.

 

First off PTATC ... I always enjoy your contributions, especially those involving medical and physical therapy related issues (I have MANY friends and relatives in the orthopaedic surgery world, so I know that the words of those with experience are valuable and carry a lot of weight).

 

However, we'll have to disagree on this one. Maybe better than saying "stupidity and selfishness," I should have said "stupidity and out of control ego." I agree -- Captain Paul is not at all a selfish player.

 

But he IS a player. And ego helps a star player transcend ho-hum, league average players, and play at the star level. Clearly, Paul thought that even one-handed, he had the talent, smarts, and resolve to help the team. But you know what? While you love that attitude, hitting a baseball is fricking difficult. And Paul's post All-Star game stats (NOT his second half ... but post All Star where I believe he hit in the .230's for the remainder of the year, plus the occasional HR or two ... basically, he hit like Gordon Beckham), plus his completely different Mr. Slappy Approach (which told ME ... and I'm sure scouts too .. that he had no confidence that he could continue to mash in his familiar style), was ego overtaking smarts.

 

A mashing threat out of a first baseman or DH (because since Dunn was there for first base, then ANY available strong bat could have replaced Konerko) could have been tried. You're right -- Konerko, and therefore likely Ventura and/or KW, thought a damaged Konerko was BETTER than the other options -- but I guess I disagree. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better to perhaps platoon Dan Johnson and Connor Jackson (probably our system's best and most advanced bats) instead of getting what we wound up getting from post All-Star break Paul Konerko. Or, asked KW to trade away some of our surplus of decent relief arms (your Omogrossos, Marinezes, Heaths, and so on, of the world) for mashers you might like better than Johnson and Jackson.

 

But, all I'm saying now is that some of us are not just saying this in hindsight. We saw it happening. Because Paul is such a known commodity (with certain tendencies), it wasn't difficult to see what was happening. I'm in no way saying that I'm smarter or more baseball savvy than Konerko, Ventura, or Williams, but I also don't have any difficulty using my eyeballs and logic over ego, where I think one or all of these gentlemen prioritized ego over logic.

 

It was worth a try to see if he could still perform one-handed. But that try meant 2-3 weeks, NOT 2-3 months. To me, that was one of the major "bad decisions" of this always interesting 2012 season.

 

[ptatc]

First off PTATC ... I always enjoy your contributions, especially those involving medical and physical therapy related issues (I have MANY friends and relatives in the orthopaedic surgery world, so I know that the words of those with experience are valuable and carry a lot of weight).

 

However, we'll have to disagree on this one. Maybe better than saying "stupidity and selfishness," I should have said "stupidity and out of control ego." I agree -- Captain Paul is not at all a selfish player.

 

But he IS a player. And ego helps a star player transcend ho-hum, league average players, and play at the star level. Clearly, Paul thought that even one-handed, he had the talent, smarts, and resolve to help the team. But you know what? While you love that attitude, hitting a baseball is fricking difficult. And Paul's post All-Star game stats (NOT his second half ... but post All Star where I believe he hit in the .230's for the remainder of the year, plus the occasional HR or two ... basically, he hit like Gordon Beckham), plus his completely different Mr. Slappy Approach (which told ME ... and I'm sure scouts too .. that he had no confidence that he could continue to mash in his familiar style), was ego overtaking smarts.

 

A mashing threat out of a first baseman or DH (because since Dunn was there for first base, then ANY available strong bat could have replaced Konerko) could have been tried. You're right -- Konerko, and therefore likely Ventura and/or KW, thought a damaged Konerko was BETTER than the other options -- but I guess I disagree. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better to perhaps platoon Dan Johnson and Connor Jackson (probably our system's best and most advanced bats) instead of getting what we wound up getting from post All-Star break Paul Konerko. Or, asked KW to trade away some of our surplus of decent relief arms (your Omogrossos, Marinezes, Heaths, and so on, of the world) for mashers you might like better than Johnson and Jackson.

 

But, all I'm saying now is that some of us are not just saying this in hindsight. We saw it happening. Because Paul is such a known commodity (with certain tendencies), it wasn't difficult to see what was happening. I'm in no way saying that I'm smarter or more baseball savvy than Konerko, Ventura, or Williams, but I also don't have any difficulty using my eyeballs and logic over ego, where I think one or all of these gentlemen prioritized ego over logic.

 

It was worth a try to see if he could still perform one-handed. But that try meant 2-3 weeks, NOT 2-3 months. To me, that was one of the major "bad decisions" of this always interesting 2012 season.

Yes, we will have to disagree. I still don't think that a platoon of Jackson and Johnson would have been much better than PK. At the time you didn't know how much it would effect him. If KW could have acquired a better option, I agree. If he has the surgery he is pretty much out for at least 4-6 weeks and with a rehab assignment for getting timing back you are looking at 2 months minimum without him. With the 2-3 weeks of trying it first That's almost September before he returns.

 

I agree that all professional athletes have that ego that helps their confidence and pushes them to another level. However, in a case like this it would have been a combo decision between PK,RV,KW, Herm Schneider and Bush-Joseph (their primary orthopedic surgeon). So putting it on PK and his ego would have been only a small piece of the decision, if at all. With the money invested in the players these days the other members of the decision carry alot of the weight. It's not like this was a sprained ankle, strained hamstring or something to "gut through." This was a significant surgery.

Edited October 7, 2012 by ptatc

[CyAcosta41]

With the money invested in the players these days the other members of the decision carry alot of the weight. It's not like this was a sprained ankle, strained hamstring or something to "gut through." This was a significant surgery.

 

We're looking at the same facts and seeing it differently. That's all.

 

Yes. This would have been a significant surgery. I run with a great many orthopaedic guys, including those who work closely with the current and former Sox guys. And it was also a significant INJURY.

 

As I said, in HINDSIGHT (because we couldn't tell whether the chips/bodies would move around in such a way that would free Paul up, or, whether he'd be the miracle man and be able to do the most difficult thing in all of sports -- with one hand tied behind his back), we would have been better off with EVEN a Johnson/Jackson platoon pairing. Clearly, a better idea would have been an acceptable and experienced power bat. I had no problem with trying to see if Paul could play this way. I have a big problem with trying it this was for nearly 2-1/2 months, when even a dedicated fan (and of course all advanced scouts) could see that Paul was no longer Paul, he was essentially Gordon Beckham (but being asked to do Paul's job in the #4 hole).

 

Yep. The Sox have a lot of money tied-up with Konerko. They also have a lot of money tied-uo with an aging roster as a whole (with a limited window to win). And they have a fiduciary duty (of sorts) to put the best product out there for the paying customer.

 

We'll continue to disagree because at some point, sooner or later, they should have stopped Paul from trotting out there with the same old problem, but somehow expecting a different result. Sounds like that folksy definition of "insanity."

 

Really respect your many medical field contributions here, but I think whether to play this guy, and for how long, as you yourself admit, is much broader than a medical decision.

 

[southsider2k5]

There is also the fact that Johnson's numbers at the major league level are almost identical to Konerko's post injury numbers in terms of OPS. The guy has a career OPS of .750. Konerko was .741.

 

The secret is we wouldn't have been gaining anything, anyway

[joeynach]

Nothing, veteran (power) hitters tend to wear down a bit in the 2nd half. Teams that rely on veteran sluggers for run production tend to fall off during the dog days and into September. Here is Konerko's 1st half and 2nd half splits the last few years. And I think the splits are only gonna get more drastic as he ages.

 

2012 Pre All Star: .329/.404/.528/.932

2012 Post All Star: .263/.333/.437/.771

 

2011 Pre All Star: .319/.390/.564/.954

2011 Post All Star: .272/.386/.447/.833

 

2010 Pre All Star: .299/.382/.560/.942

2010 Post All Star: .327/.406/.611/1.017

 

2009 Pre All Star: .302/.355/.514/.870

2009 Post All Star: .243/.349/.455/.804

[ptatc]

We're looking at the same facts and seeing it differently. That's all.

 

Yes. This would have been a significant surgery. I run with a great many orthopaedic guys, including those who work closely with the current and former Sox guys. And it was also a significant INJURY.

 

As I said, in HINDSIGHT (because we couldn't tell whether the chips/bodies would move around in such a way that would free Paul up, or, whether he'd be the miracle man and be able to do the most difficult thing in all of sports -- with one hand tied behind his back), we would have been better off with EVEN a Johnson/Jackson platoon pairing. Clearly, a better idea would have been an acceptable and experienced power bat. I had no problem with trying to see if Paul could play this way. I have a big problem with trying it this was for nearly 2-1/2 months, when even a dedicated fan (and of course all advanced scouts) could see that Paul was no longer Paul, he was essentially Gordon Beckham (but being asked to do Paul's job in the #4 hole).

 

Yep. The Sox have a lot of money tied-up with Konerko. They also have a lot of money tied-uo with an aging roster as a whole (with a limited window to win). And they have a fiduciary duty (of sorts) to put the best product out there for the paying customer.

 

We'll continue to disagree because at some point, sooner or later, they should have stopped Paul from trotting out there with the same old problem, but somehow expecting a different result. Sounds like that folksy definition of "insanity."

 

Really respect your many medical field contributions here, but I think whether to play this guy, and for how long, as you yourself admit, is much broader than a medical decision.

That was einstein's definition.

 

And I fully agree that is was more than medical but it also was not PK's alone to make. My original point is that is was not PK's ego or "macho toughness" alone that made the decision. It was a combination of this plus the management team realizing that what PK could give them was better than whatever else they had. I also agree that they could have shut him down if KW could find a replacement that was better than PK with the injured wrist.

 

In hindsight PK was bad but I don't think they really had any other option on the team or in the minors.

[caulfield12]

That was einstein's definition.

 

And I fully agree that is was more than medical but it also was not PK's alone to make. My original point is that is was not PK's ego or "macho toughness" alone that made the decision. It was a combination of this plus the management team realizing that what PK could give them was better than whatever else they had. I also agree that they could have shut him down if KW could find a replacement that was better than PK with the injured wrist.

 

In hindsight PK was bad but I don't think they really had any other option on the team or in the minors.

 

 

The best option available was either Dan Johnson OR playing Wise in LF, Viciedo at DH (including his poor performance against RHP) and Dunn at 1B.

 

Those 2 or Konerko staying in the line-up at 75%.