CTU is Going on Strike

[Y2HH]

Tests and quizzes are not given daily. Videos are strongly discouraged in many school districts because it's lazy teaching. Same with silent reading. Much more often than not, teachers are up in front of the classroom for 50+ minutes out of every hour they're instructing.

 

I went to school...so did you, including 4 years of college...

 

You KNOW for a fact this isn't and has NEVER been true.

[ptatc]

What full time employee only works 1,000 hours per year?

Some firms expect attorneys to bill 200 hours a month (50 hours per week). That is 2,400 hours.

I know I put in more time out of the classroom between preparation, Grading etc. than in the classroom. Teachers must do more outside the workplace than most other professions. Also the compensation is slightly different from a law firm to a school.

Do law firms make you buy your pencils and such on your own? Many teachers purchase thing for their classrooms that schools do not provide any longer.

 

[Y2HH]

I know I put in more time out of the classroom between preparation, Grading etc. than in the classroom. Teachers must do more outside the workplace than most other professions. Also the compensation is slightly different from a law firm to a school.

Do law firms make you buy your pencils and such on your own? Many teachers purchase thing for their classrooms that schools do not provide any longer.

 

And most law firms won't continue to pay them 70-80% of what they were making AFTER they retire.

 

Nor do they pay for their health/dental care for the remainder of their lives after retirement.

 

There are trade offs to every profession. For those benefits, I'd be GLAD to buy my own pencils.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Y2HH

[Soxbadger]

No one is claiming that teachers work more than anyone else in this thread. You're being intentionally obtuse.

 

Isnt this what youve been claiming? That teachers have it so bad that they should be getting all of these benefits, pay raises, etc, while the rest of us struggle and either take pay cuts or get no raises?

 

Because if they arent working harder than anyone else, why are they deserving of special privileges in a time of economic strife?

[ptatc]

I did read the rest of the post.

 

Once again, you need to read your own post. They only spend 1,000 hours instructing. That is their job. You have been arguing that teachers spend so much time at school teaching, but now by your own admission they only spend 1,000, with almost another 1,000 coming OUTSIDE OF THE CLASSROOM, where they can, POST ON SOXTALK, and take MENTAL BREAKS.

 

Most people go to a job and have to do at least 1,600 hours at the work site (that is 8 hours a day for 200 days), I dont know anyone who has a 48 week work year and gets 2 weeks vacation, plus all federal/state holidays (read your own post for gods sake).

 

 

 

Last I checked there were 52 weeks in the year, where did that other month go?

Their job is also to prepare for the instruction. If you really think that most teachers (I know there are some but it is the minority) don't spend more time outside the instruction time then you need to go work with one for a month.

[Soxbadger]

I know I put in more time out of the classroom between preparation, Grading etc. than in the classroom. Teachers must do more outside the workplace than most other professions. Also the compensation is slightly different from a law firm to a school.

Do law firms make you buy your pencils and such on your own? Many teachers purchase thing for their classrooms that schools do not provide any longer.

 

The lawyers I hire right now make 50% of what a starting CPS teacher does. I can pay them $25k because the market is saturated and they are begging for a job.

 

Think about that for a second, many new lawyers are making less than a CPS teacher, having to work double the hours, having to pay 50% of their insurance, no pension, no tenure, no job security.

 

Not saying that is fair, but the world has changed. The rest of us have made significant sacrifices, I dont believe asking CTU to not take a raise when Chicago is out of money is to unreasonable.

[StrangeSox]

Once again, you need to read your own post. They only spend 1,000 hours instructing. That is their job.

 

You have been arguing that teachers spend so much time at school teaching, but now by your own admission they only spend 1,000, with almost another 1,000 coming OUTSIDE OF THE CLASSROOM, where they can, POST ON SOXTALK, and take MENTAL BREAKS.

 

Their job requires significant planning and grading outside of instruction hours. I've been saying that, during those instructional hours, they're required to be more "on" than typical white collar jobs, so direct comparisons of hours may not be apples-to-apples.I had already said teachers don't work the same total number of hours in a year earlier in the thread.

 

This isn't some new admission or revelation. But it turned out that I was incorrect, and when you factor in after-school hours, they work just as much as everyone else. So I don't even need to bring up that defense and can simply say that teachers work just as much as the average 40-hour worker does throughout the year, they just do it in a compressed schedule. In light of that, the argument that they only work 3/4's of the year and get all this time off doesn't hold weight.

 

Most people go to a job and have to do at least 1,600 hours at the work site (that is 8 hours a day for 200 days), I dont know anyone who has a 48 week work year and gets 2 weeks vacation, plus all federal/state holidays (read your own post for gods sake).

 

Last I checked there were 52 weeks in the year, where did that other month go?

 

52 weeks - two weeks vacation - 10 federal holidays = 48 work weeks.

[Y2HH]

Their job is also to prepare for the instruction. If you really think that most teachers (I know there are some but it is the minority) don't spend more time outside the instruction time then you need to go work with one for a month.

 

They are not the only profession with off hours work, I think it's been pointed out by many.

 

I work after hours almost daily.

 

And? That's part of the job I have...can't make changes to production environments during business hours. This is pretty common throughout the IT industry. It's NOT, however, something only teachers have to do. Live with it, or change professions. It's not like this is a secret in these industries.

[Y2HH]

Their job requires significant planning and grading outside of instruction hours. I've been saying that, during those instructional hours, they're required to be more "on" than typical white collar jobs, so direct comparisons of hours may not be apples-to-apples.I had already said teachers don't work the same total number of hours in a year earlier in the thread.

 

This isn't some new admission or revelation. But it turned out that I was incorrect, and when you factor in after-school hours, they work just as much as everyone else. So I don't even need to bring up that defense and can simply say that teachers work just as much as the average 40-hour worker does throughout the year, they just do it in a compressed schedule. In light of that, the argument that they only work 3/4's of the year and get all this time off doesn't hold weight.

 

 

 

52 weeks - two weeks vacation - 10 federal holidays = 48 work weeks.

 

I get 5 weeks of vacation + 10 federal holidays.

 

[StrangeSox]

I went to school...so did you, including 4 years of college...

 

You KNOW for a fact this isn't and has NEVER been true.

 

I thought we were talking about CPS here? College isn't directly relevant.

[Soxbadger]

Their job is also to prepare for the instruction. If you really think that most teachers (I know there are some but it is the minority) don't spend more time outside the instruction time then you need to go work with one for a month.

 

Its everyone's responsibility to prepare for their job.

 

Many of my friends are teachers, including my mother, not one of them would trade their schedule for mine.

[ptatc]

Isnt this what youve been claiming? That teachers have it so bad that they should be getting all of these benefits, pay raises, etc, while the rest of us struggle and either take pay cuts or get no raises?

 

Because if they arent working harder than anyone else, why are they deserving of special privileges in a time of economic strife?

I received my first raise in 4 years this year. Teachers aren't getting any more benefits than most others.

[Y2HH]

I received my first raise in 4 years this year. Teachers aren't getting any more benefits than most others.

 

Aside from a publicly funded pension + lifetime health/dental benefits, you mean.

[Soxbadger]

I received my first raise in 4 years this year. Teachers aren't getting any more benefits than most others.

 

Are you a CPS teacher?

[StrangeSox]

Isnt this what youve been claiming? That teachers have it so bad that they should be getting all of these benefits, pay raises, etc, while the rest of us struggle and either take pay cuts or get no raises?

 

Much of what they are striking over is directly related to classroom resources and sizes, not teachers' pay and benefits.

 

Because if they arent working harder than anyone else, why are they deserving of special privileges in a time of economic strife?

 

because they can still collectively bargain and have negotiating power?

[StrangeSox]

Aside from a publicly funded pension + lifetime health/dental benefits, you mean.

 

We'll see if that pension is around in a decade or two. My wife isn't counting on it.

[Y2HH]

We'll see if that pension is around in a decade or two. My wife isn't counting on it.

 

I wouldn't either...but if things go as they should, it SHOULD be around. Then again, when union employees keep allowing unions to steal their pensions right under their noses (and it's not a secret they do it, they do it quite openly)...yet they keep allowing the same officials to be elected to oversee their union pensions...well...you get what you get.

[Soxbadger]

Much of what they are striking over is directly related to classroom resources and sizes, not teachers' pay and benefits.

 

 

 

because they can still collectively bargain and have negotiating power?

 

1) If you have $100 to spend, and the teachers want $99 in salary, that leaves me $1 on classroom resources and sizes. If you have 1 teacher making $75k instead of 3 teachers making $25k, that is classrooms that are triple the size. When money is fixed, you have to make tough decisions.

 

2) Yep it is their right to take the people of Chicago to the cleaners. And it is my right to convince people to go against them. There are consequences, and they may win the battle to lose the war on this one. Because many of my pro-union people are pretty upset at how CTU is going about this. Its not really been well received that CTU is taking on Rahm in Obama's election year. It really isnt the time or place, but if CTU wants to leverage everything for this, go for it. But you reap what you sow.

[Y2HH]

To be honest, the last time they went on strike I was in grade school...and I was all for their strike.

 

Not because they got more money, but because I got an extended summer vacation. Yay being a kid!

Edited September 11, 2012 by Y2HH

[MurcieOne]

Honestly, I don't think the issue is how much teacher's work or how hard teacher's work. I think they have tough jobs, especially in some of these schools where parents do more to stunt education than otherwise.

 

To me, I'm more concerned about getting bad teachers out of CPS, and without a ridiculously laborious grievance/arbitration process. Principals should have the ability to manage their staffs and make personnel changes as necessary. CPS has the responsibility to hire competent principals that don't abuse that power, and must hold them accountable if the do.

 

In terms of pay, I don't think this group has much of a gripe. They are paid as well as teachers in similarly situated cities.

 

[StrangeSox]

1) If you have $100 to spend, and the teachers want $99 in salary, that leaves me $1 on classroom resources and sizes. If you have 1 teacher making $75k instead of 3 teachers making $25k, that is classrooms that are triple the size. When money is fixed, you have to make tough decisions.

 

2) Yep it is their right to take the people of Chicago to the cleaners. And it is my right to convince people to go against them. There are consequences, and they may win the battle to lose the war on this one. Because many of my pro-union people are pretty upset at how CTU is going about this. Its not really been well received that CTU is taking on Rahm in Obama's election year. It really isnt the time or place, but if CTU wants to leverage everything for this, go for it. But you reap what you sow.

 

Rahm is anti-union and Obama's done nothing for labor.

 

Tight budgets didn't stop administration from giving themselves raises.

[EvilMonkey]

Rahm is anti-union and Obama's done nothing for labor.

 

Tight budgets didn't stop administration from giving themselves raises.

Except suck on the SEIU cock as he buddies around with the boss and has him over for WHite House visits more than anyone else.

[Soxbadger]

Rahm is anti-union and Obama's done nothing for labor.

 

Tight budgets didn't stop administration from giving themselves raises.

 

Yep nothing for labor! Do you actually believe that? Because the cultural climate right now is semi-antagonistic to Unions. What do you want Obama to do? Pass laws? Change the law?

 

Or should he focus on getting re-elected so that another person isnt elected who would do much worse to unions?

 

Administration didnt give themselves a raise, the Board of Education voted and agreed to it. Correct me if I am wrong, but no one on the board voted on their own raise. I dont agree that anyone should be getting raises, but Im not on the board.

 

http://www.cps.edu/About_CPS/The_Board_of_.../Boardbios.aspx

 

Those are the members of the board, I have no idea what they are doing.

[Steve9347]

Some more background on how much or how little teachers actually work:

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/06/25/...worlds-longest/

 

 

 

 

So, even though they get lots of time off, they still put in almost as many hours as the average full-time employee.

Yeah, so they spend that time in the classroom, and at most spend just over 1900 hours working a year.

 

An average work week for the average person is 40 hours, though mine's more like 48. There are 52 weeks in a year.

 

That's 2,080 hours, on the absolute lowest end. I don't get paid overtime when I stay past 5pm, I do it because I need to get work done.

 

Boo f***ing hoo teachers, you almost sometimes, but not really, work somewhat close to what other people do with more benefits, more vacation time. God, teachers suck.

[iamshack]

I thought we were talking about CPS here? College isn't directly relevant.

Many of these teachers that have been teaching for years and years already have their preparation complete. There is a certain amount of foundation work that is done and then that is used over and over and over. There isn't a lot of new dynamic analysis being done of the Canterbury Tales or The Scarlet Letter every year.

 

Algebra and Geometry don't really change after you have prepared to teach it for a year or two.

 

I get what you're saying here, I really do...my stepfather teaches college courses and I recognize he puts in plenty of time outside of the actual teaching. But we all do...especially with the advent of company laptops and cell phones...I'm answering emails and dealing with work issues around the clock.

 

I also understand the desire to not be rated as a teacher by the test scores of low-income students. That is a very challenging benchmark to be rated. However, there has to be some way to hold them accountable, and their performance is a very big part of that. How else can we rate them if not by the performance of their students?