CTU is Going on Strike

[ptatc]

It is still a hell of a lot harder to fire a teacher than it is to fire a normal person in the private sector. Illinois is an at will work state. Do you know how they fire you in the private sector. You get called into a meeting usually with HR, you are given some papers to sign and then you are gone. As long as its not for sexual orientation, age, or gender discrimination you are pretty much good to go. You can fire people for just about anything. And they don't have any appeals process.

It is not difficult to fire a teacher prior to tenure. It is not called firing because until tenure your contract is "renewed" every year. Thus a teacher can be called to the principal and told they are ineffective and let go. There is a grievance process but it rarely works in favor of a teacher. This is why they work hard to get tenure.

[mr_genius]

You're wrong and if you were informed you would know this.

 

Did you know that the 16% (not 20%) increase is mostly benefits and not salary? The 90k number you came up with is if it's all salary.

 

No, we are informed (each time we pay for all this in taxes). If you were informed, you would know those benefits aren't free. In the end It doesn't matter if it's salary or some gold plated entitlement it goes into.

Edited September 12, 2012 by mr_genius

[ptatc]

the teachers are totally out of touch with reality. the wealthy entitlement class looking down at the masses, "let them eat cake".

If you truly believe that teachers of all people are the wealthy class, there is no further reason for discussion.

[ptatc]

No I am informed, and am so each time we pay for all this in taxes. If you were informed, you would know those benefits aren't free. In the end It doesn't matter to me if it's salary or some gold plated benefit it goes into.

Then there is no 90k salary as you said before. You are not figuring it out correctly just making blanket statements. Paying taxes does not equal being informed Do I think we pay too much in taxes. Yes. is it because of the teachers. No. It has much more to do with the inefficiencies in the administrations in all of the government agencies in this state.

 

As I stated before, since I'm the wealthy looking down on the rest I declare this part terminated.

[mr_genius]

Then there is no 90k salary as you said before. You are not figuring it out correctly just making blanket statements. Paying taxes does not equal being informed Do I think we pay too much in taxes. Yes. is it because of the teachers. No. It has much more to do with the inefficiencies in the administrations in all of the government agencies in this state.

 

As I stated before, since I'm the wealthy looking down on the rest I declare this part terminated.

 

I am merely standing up for the struggling middle class worker whom can't afford all these demands. Defending them against the cruel, out of touch, wealthy elites.

[StrangeSox]

It is still a hell of a lot harder to fire a teacher than it is to fire a normal person in the private sector. Illinois is an at will work state. Do you know how they fire you in the private sector. You get called into a meeting usually with HR, you are given some papers to sign and then you are gone. As long as its not for sexual orientation, age, or gender discrimination you are pretty much good to go. You can fire people for just about anything. And they don't have any appeals process.

And that is horrible.

[southsideirish71]

It is not difficult to fire a teacher prior to tenure. It is not called firing because until tenure your contract is "renewed" every year. Thus a teacher can be called to the principal and told they are ineffective and let go. There is a grievance process but it rarely works in favor of a teacher. This is why they work hard to get tenure.

 

Well its hard for non-teachers to really get behind this. You just have to sweat it a bit until you get tenured. Most people don't have the benefit of a contract. Just take your system and imagine that your principal can fire you next week because he feels you are ineffective. Then pretend there is no contract or an appeals process.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Well its hard for non-teachers to really get behind this. You just have to sweat it a bit until you get tenured. Most people don't have the benefit of a contract. Just take your system and imagine that your principal can fire you next week because he feels you are ineffective. Then pretend there is no contract or an appeals process.

Let's stop being crabs in a bucket and fight for better employment protections for everyone instead of no protections for anyone.

[EvilMonkey]

Let's stop being crabs in a bucket and fight for better employment protections for everyone instead of no protections for anyone.

But they are already better paid, benefited and protected than most in the area. Why should they get even more?

[BigSqwert]

Let's stop being crabs in a bucket and fight for better employment protections for everyone instead of no protections for anyone.

[kev211]

Im on the phone with someone, how is that helping your point?

 

I guess unlike a teacher, I can discuss a foreclosure while posting on a message board.

 

Not exactly rocket science here. And if we are comparing to teachers, when is the last time a teacher got a call from a student at 3 am Sunday morning? Can you name a time when a teacher had to sit by the door at a restaurant on Friday night because they may get a call? Or that they couldnt go to the movies because their phone needed to be on.

 

Youre better off sticking with the "Everyone should have it as good as teachers" argument, as opposed to the "teachers work harder than you do." Because trying to argue both, is going to sink either.

You constantly comparing your schedule to a teachers schedule is irrelevant until you compare how much you make to an average teachers salary.

Edited September 12, 2012 by kev211

[flippedoutpunk]

Is it possible for the city to just hire non-union teachers instead of having to deal with the CTU?

[EvilMonkey]

Let's stop being crabs in a bucket and fight for better employment protections for everyone instead of no protections for anyone.

Yeah, let's fix it so that you can't fire the kid you hired to mow your lawn, despite the crappy job he does, until you go thur an appeal process. And during that appeal he gets 'suspended with pay'. And while you wait for the appeal you can hire someone else to do the job that the first guy you are trying to fire couldn't do right. Then have the union-packed appeal board rule against you, forcing you to rehire him, pay him back wages and a fine. Protection for all!

 

As a former business owner I was glad for the ability to hire and fire who I damn well felt like. It allowed me to get quality people working for me that stayed withme for a long time. In the 19 years I was hiring/firing, I had one employee for 17 of those years, 3 that stayed for 8+ years and several with 5 year or more stints. I also had several that lasted less than a year, one making it less than a month.

[southsideirish71]

Let's stop being crabs in a bucket and fight for better employment protections for everyone instead of no protections for anyone.

 

You mean bringing the tenured/contract system to private companies. No thanks. While cruel at times companies need to be competitive and the decision to end employment for those who are not working out should be up to the company. Imagine if we could reward the good teachers and remove the bad. Even those who are tenured.

[kev211]

Also the biggest problem with the CPS is the yearly raises. Part of the reason their average is so high is they pay first year teachers on just a bachelors a ton of money(way more than in the suburbs), but teachers with 20 years of exp. and a couple graduate degrees make less then teachers in the suburbs.

 

This causes the more experienced teachers to bolt for the suburbs sticking new teachers with no experience in the schools which is obviously not good for education. A possible solution to this is to pay the new teachers less and give that money to the yearly raises so that someone with 20 years of experience makes more then someone with 20 years of experience in the suburbs.

[bmags]

Is it possible for the city to just hire non-union teachers instead of having to deal with the CTU?

 

It would be very difficult to replace 30,000 teachers who have not prepared for any sort of lesson plan into the classroom. Unless we are talking about a severely prolonged strike.

[flippedoutpunk]

It would be very difficult to replace 30,000 teachers who have not prepared for any sort of lesson plan into the classroom. Unless we are talking about a severely prolonged strike.

 

It would suck at first but the outlook would have to be better for the long term wouldnt it? I cant imagine how much money the city would save, which could then be placed back into the education system in the form of Air conditioned rooms, smaller classrooms, etc. I dont know im talking out of my fantasy ass right now.

[mr_genius]

It would suck at first but the outlook would have to be better for the long term wouldnt it?

 

I totally agree

 

[flippedoutpunk]

Im no political science expert like ss2k or balta, but it just seems to me that the only thing keeping the children of the CPS from getting these things that every student should have is the benefits/pension plans that are sucking up all of CPS budget? Are there any states in the US where teachers cant unionize? id like to see if im talking out of my ass or if it would really make a difference.

[SoxFan1]

An hour ago, on my facebook page, FROM A TEACHER:

 

"You have got it ENTIRELY WRONG... WE did not walk out on the students.. I know your an educated young man but you need to educate on the real issues before you start making comments to which you are not educated on.."

 

My response:

 

"I keep being told I'm not educated, yet no one seems to have the desire to actually educate anyone on the matter."

[IlliniKrush]

An hour ago, on my facebook page, FROM A TEACHER:

 

"You have got it ENTIRELY WRONG... WE did not walk out on the students.. I know your an educated young man but you need to educate on the real issues before you start making comments to which you are not educated on.."

 

My response:

 

"I keep being told I'm not educated, yet no one seems to have the desire to actually educate anyone on the matter."

Should correct her on the incorrect "your" if you copied and pasted.

[iamshack]

Should correct her on the incorrect "your" if you copied and pasted.

There are plenty of other issues to have with that post as well

[Soxbadger]

Let's stop being crabs in a bucket and fight for better employment protections for everyone instead of no protections for anyone.

 

That is just a terrible meme.

 

Humans are not in some bucket that if we all just work together we will escape to unlimited riches and freedom. You do realize that there are costs to the other crabs escaping. And that if we all escape, there is no one left to do anything.

 

 

 

You constantly comparing your schedule to a teachers schedule is irrelevant until you compare how much you make to an average teachers salary.

 

I get paid less than many CPS teachers, that is completely irrelevant. But Im pretty sure this was not the answer you were looking for.

 

Right now I can hire a new attorney for less than CPS can hire a new teacher. And those lawyers would be thankful for the opportunity to have a job and get experience.

 

Is it possible for the city to just hire non-union teachers instead of having to deal with the CTU?

 

Rahm could go nuclear and just say they are going to hire replacement teachers. Im sure that CTU would file some sort of lawsuit. There is probably some collective bargaining contract that is thousands of pages long.

 

[EvilMonkey]

I know a few people keep saying that it isn't about the money, but here is the union prez out protesting with the Occutards. She sure sounds like it is about the money, and she spouts off all the usual class warfare line about income redistribution and so on, while conveniently ignoring the fact that she makes more than just about everyone there. (i don't know how to inbed the players, sorry)

 

[southsider2k5]

Let's stop being crabs in a bucket and fight for better employment protections for everyone instead of no protections for anyone.

 

So maybe they should quit being crabs in a bucket trying to take more from the 80% of people below them who are paying their salaries?