Y2HH Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) Better in an electricians pocket, supporting the middle class and circulating back t through the economy than in some rich guys offshore tax haven. Yet another nonsensical statement from you. How about putting it in the pocket of a NON-union middle class guy who runs his own handyman business, who woud do the SAME quality of work for 1/10th the cost? Oh, no, we couldn't have that...not from a union loving goon like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) Only if you conflate everything as a "benefit" But then I'd ask you to define something that benefits the children that wouldn't benefit the teachers that they could strike over. We should be wanting to make their jobs easier so that they are more effective. They will be NO more effective after this strike ends. How much would you like to bet that the school system continues to get worse, despite all of these "added awesome benefits for the children"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) Read some literature on modern life in Appalachia. not everyone has the opportunities and advantages we did growing up. Better in an electricians pocket, supporting the middle class and circulating back t through the economy than in some rich guys offshore tax haven. You mean back into the hands of the union and union bosses/lobbyist to fund their offshore tax haven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) Yet another nonsensical statement from you. How about putting it in the pocket of a NON-union middle class guy who runs his own handyman business, who woud do the SAME quality of work for 1/10th the cost? Oh, no, we couldn't have that...not from a union loving goon like yourself. Or that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 At this point I have to back off this thread, because I realize I'm just trolling SS at this point... I'm anti-union, so having discussions about the benefits of them isn't easy...I see them do more harm than good these days. They were more necessary before workers rights existed. I think I'd have less of a problem with unions if they weren't the political/bureaucratic organizations they've become. They don't stand for the same ideal they original did...they're a corrupted bastardization of what they once were...where the guys at the top of the union are now just as rich (if not richer) than politicians, all the while stealing from their own pensions/union members, not to mention brokering deals that are back breaking to cities/states/people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 08:31 AM) These are, in my view, two very different scenarios (Lake Forest vs Chicago). CPS teachers make about half what LF teachers do, and CPS is pushing for lots of different changes, many of which are directly beneficial to students (like class size limits). LF, with their 6 figure average salaries, is just asking for more money, at a time when government is feeling the economic pinch. I really don't have any sympathy at all for the Lake Forest teachers, and they definitely overplayed their hand. CPS, I actually agree with the teachers on some of what they are trying to do. No it's the exact same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:08 AM) I do understand what they're striking over, and it's money and benefits. Yep. And the entitlement of never being evaluated honestly or be fired no matter how bad they are at their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 10:50 AM) The biggest difference here is that every single taxpayer in the City of Chicago has a vested interest here. They should get a say here. Ah yes the beauty of negotiating against yourself. Thank You JFK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) Yet another nonsensical statement from you. How about putting it in the pocket of a NON-union middle class guy who runs his own handyman business, who woud do the SAME quality of work for 1/10th the cost? Oh, no, we couldn't have that...not from a union loving goon like yourself. Must have Davis Bacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) They will be NO more effective after this strike ends. How much would you like to bet that the school system continues to get worse, despite all of these "added awesome benefits for the children"? I will venture to say that they will be more effective in teaching a class of 25 students versus a class of 35 students. However, I don't think this let get through so it's a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (ptatc @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:52 PM) I will venture to say that they will be more effective in teaching a class of 25 students versus a class of 35 students. However, I don't think this let get through so it's a moot point. Here's my problem with that being a part of the debate. If those are really the issues, why not forgo the raises to specifically take care of problems such as classsize, supplies, classroom conditions, etc? If it isn't about money, don't take the money that could be used to address the "real" problems, and put it in your pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Here's my problem with that being a part of the debate. If those are really the issues, why not forgo the raises to specifically take care of problems such as classsize, supplies, classroom conditions, etc? If it isn't about money, don't take the money that could be used to address the "real" problems, and put it in your pocket. Because it's not about the money!$#@!#@!$! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Here's my problem with that being a part of the debate. If those are really the issues, why not forgo the raises to specifically take care of problems such as classsize, supplies, classroom conditions, etc? If it isn't about money, don't take the money that could be used to address the "real" problems, and put it in your pocket. I really wish someone would ask this moronic Lewis lady how the CPS is expected to fill the 750 million-1 billion dollar budget gap next year if they're putting raises in place and restricting CPS' ability to fire teachers/close schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 03:22 PM) I really wish someone would ask this moronic Lewis lady how the CPS is expected to fill the 750 million-1 billion dollar budget gap next year if they're putting raises in place and restricting CPS' ability to fire teachers/close schools. Will someone turn around and ask Rahm how they're going to improve the schools if they close schools, increase class sizes, and can't afford air conditioning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:34 PM) Will someone turn around and ask Rahm how they're going to improve the schools if they close schools, increase class sizes, and can't afford air conditioning? How about keeping them open first. What good is improvement if they close down the next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) How about keeping them open first. What good is improvement if they close down the next month. I agree, someone should turn around and ask Rahm how he's going to improve the schools if he can't bargain fairly enough to keep them open. Wait, waht's that, it's only the union's fault when a strike starts, never anyone else's? Sorry, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:40 PM) I agree, someone should turn around and ask Rahm how he's going to improve the schools if he can't bargain fairly enough to keep them open. Wait, waht's that, it's only the union's fault when a strike starts, never anyone else's? Sorry, my bad. This is bulls*** and you clearly know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:40 PM) I agree, someone should turn around and ask Rahm how he's going to improve the schools if he can't bargain fairly enough to keep them open. Wait, waht's that, it's only the union's fault when a strike starts, never anyone else's? Sorry, my bad. Then again, having to pay more expenses isn't really going to help him keep any schools open now, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) This is bulls*** and you clearly know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) Then again, having to pay more expenses isn't really going to help him keep any schools open now, is it? Well, if it ended the strike, then yes it would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) Well, if it ended the strike, then yes it would? Not if a number of them have to be closed to pay for teacher raises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) Well, if it ended the strike, then yes it would? Wow, your reality distortion field is as strong as Steve Jobs's was. :| Edited September 18, 2012 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Buried under the whole "there's no money!" claim is a whole lot of larger taxation and wealth/income equality issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 05:26 PM) Buried under the whole "there's no money!" claim is a whole lot of larger taxation and wealth/income equality issues. But its easy to gloss over those and blame the teachers instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 04:27 PM) But its easy to gloss over those and blame the teachers instead. To be fair, I've glossed over that as well because it's such a huge issue and "CPS funding" is only a very, very narrow subset of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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