CTU is Going on Strike

[Y2HH]

You know what would be great for students? A completey disgruntled workforce and Rahm with no checks.

 

Give it a few years, they'll be disgruntled again.

[southsider2k5]

Because all of those teachers happy has worked so well?

[NorthSideSox72]

Why not? There are already model schools out there, borrow their charters. Just say "hey this CPS school is not a charter school." Boom. Done.

I think you are being incredibly unrealistic. Seriously, think for just a second about what goes into opening a new school - just one, of any kind, in CPS. Now imagine doing it for a few hundred of them, all in, what, a summer? Come on, that's insane and has zero chance of being possible. Do I even have to list all the things you have to do for each school to get it up and running?

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I think you are being incredibly unrealistic. Seriously, think for just a second about what goes into opening a new school - just one, of any kind, in CPS. Now imagine doing it for a few hundred of them, all in, what, a summer? Come on, that's insane and has zero chance of being possible. Do I even have to list all the things you have to do for each school to get it up and running?

 

Not saying it would be easy. But I don't see why it would be impossible either.

[NorthSideSox72]

Not saying it would be easy. But I don't see why it would be impossible either.

You have to interview, hire and train about 50,000 people. And no, they won't all be from the public schools that have jobs now. That process alone will take months upon months or more. You have to build and/or fix facilities - maybe only a few, or a lot, depending on what public facilities you can operate in. You have to go through long certification processes with the state and feds, like all schools do. You have to have companies with enough staff to handle managing the charters and administrations of these schools, which right now they don't have, and it may take a long time to get. You have to set up school boards, and have public review periods for many charter school elements, including their curriculum. You will have to fight the unions legally, and that will be a long, drawn out, and expensive mess. You have to set up the financial arrangements for funding, contracts, and all that other fun legal crap, which again, seems easy on the surface, but in reality ends up taking forever while the lawyers tear it apart. You have to make wholesale changes in the CPS administration, and take on large charges to get out from under current obligations. You have to have the laws changed, at the state level and in city ordinances, which means getting the backing of the state legislature (both chambers), the governor, the city council and the mayor (there are rules in place about public education and city-provided schools that have huge monetary impacts, and they need to change if you do this).

 

The list goes on, but seriously... tell me with a straight face you think that could be done in a couple months.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

You have to interview, hire and train about 50,000 people. And no, they won't all be from the public schools that have jobs now. That process alone will take months upon months or more. You have to build and/or fix facilities - maybe only a few, or a lot, depending on what public facilities you can operate in. You have to go through long certification processes with the state and feds, like all schools do. You have to have companies with enough staff to handle managing the charters and administrations of these schools, which right now they don't have, and it may take a long time to get. You have to set up school boards, and have public review periods for many charter school elements, including their curriculum. You will have to fight the unions legally, and that will be a long, drawn out, and expensive mess. You have to set up the financial arrangements for funding, contracts, and all that other fun legal crap, which again, seems easy on the surface, but in reality ends up taking forever while the lawyers tear it apart. You have to make wholesale changes in the CPS administration, and take on large charges to get out from under current obligations. You have to have the laws changed, at the state level and in city ordinances, which means getting the backing of the state legislature (both chambers), the governor, the city council and the mayor (there are rules in place about public education and city-provided schools that have huge monetary impacts, and they need to change if you do this).

 

The list goes on, but seriously... tell me with a straight face you think that could be done in a couple months.

 

I never said a couple of months, but it's not going to take 5 years either. The City of Chicago has charter schools in place, so they're not reinventing the wheel. The majority of the hiring can come from existing people in the CPS system, and if not I'm sure there's a bevy of recent grads waiting in the wings. Yes, certification may be difficult, but if you're doing it on a city wide basis why couldn't that be expedited?

 

They're already working/have worked on 75% of this stuff. That's where the system is headed anyway, why not do it now rather than 10 years from now? That's all i'm saying.

[EvilMonkey]

So I heard this morning that Rahm plans to pay for his gifts to the teachers by taxing smokers and raising the amusement tax. Way to go Rahm, f*** over as many people as you can to pay for your inability to fix the situation to your benefit. Sox tickets are high enough. Museum prices? Forget it, never going there again, especially since you already screw non city residents on pricing there. Any why any smoker would ever by cigs in the city is beyond me. The tax difference alone makes it worthwhile to take a trip to Indiana and buy in bulk.

[bmags]

That's probably a pretty small number of people he's "f***ing" over. But it is fairly regressive. You should applaud that, no? The moochers being forced to pay?

[bmags]

You have to interview, hire and train about 50,000 people. And no, they won't all be from the public schools that have jobs now. That process alone will take months upon months or more. You have to build and/or fix facilities - maybe only a few, or a lot, depending on what public facilities you can operate in. You have to go through long certification processes with the state and feds, like all schools do. You have to have companies with enough staff to handle managing the charters and administrations of these schools, which right now they don't have, and it may take a long time to get. You have to set up school boards, and have public review periods for many charter school elements, including their curriculum. You will have to fight the unions legally, and that will be a long, drawn out, and expensive mess. You have to set up the financial arrangements for funding, contracts, and all that other fun legal crap, which again, seems easy on the surface, but in reality ends up taking forever while the lawyers tear it apart. You have to make wholesale changes in the CPS administration, and take on large charges to get out from under current obligations. You have to have the laws changed, at the state level and in city ordinances, which means getting the backing of the state legislature (both chambers), the governor, the city council and the mayor (there are rules in place about public education and city-provided schools that have huge monetary impacts, and they need to change if you do this).

 

The list goes on, but seriously... tell me with a straight face you think that could be done in a couple months.

 

 

I don't know if it would be that hard, basically the real question is "what if we disbanded the Chicago Teachers Union". It would essentially be the same thing. But I still think the entire process would take at least a year.

[NorthSideSox72]

I never said a couple of months, but it's not going to take 5 years either. The City of Chicago has charter schools in place, so they're not reinventing the wheel. The majority of the hiring can come from existing people in the CPS system, and if not I'm sure there's a bevy of recent grads waiting in the wings. Yes, certification may be difficult, but if you're doing it on a city wide basis why couldn't that be expedited?

 

They're already working/have worked on 75% of this stuff. That's where the system is headed anyway, why not do it now rather than 10 years from now? That's all i'm saying.

 

They are doing it the only way it can be done in a controlled manner that doesn't make the schools infinitely worse - by opening charter schools a few at a time. If you did a complete meltdown on the existing structure and tried to get an entirely charter system up and running, it would take years to get all the kids back into normal schooling. That destroys educations, a lot of them, and I would not be OK with that.

 

 

I don't know if it would be that hard, basically the real question is "what if we disbanded the Chicago Teachers Union". It would essentially be the same thing. But I still think the entire process would take at least a year.

 

Not the same - completely different school administration (both in staff as well as rules/procedures/curriculums).

 

[bmags]

They are doing it the only way it can be done in a controlled manner that doesn't make the schools infinitely worse - by opening charter schools a few at a time. If you did a complete meltdown on the existing structure and tried to get an entirely charter system up and running, it would take years to get all the kids back into normal schooling. That destroys educations, a lot of them, and I would not be OK with that.

 

 

 

 

Not the same - completely different school administration (both in staff as well as rules/procedures/curriculums).

 

Well I don't know why they would clean house completely, but yes finding 60k relevant people to take over would be quite difficult.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well I don't know why they would clean house completely, but yes finding 60k relevant people to take over would be quite difficult.

If you were one of the managers of the charter administration charged with running these schools, trying to make them different and better and cut costs... would you really just blindly re-hire all the exact same people? No way. You review them all, keep some, hire new for others. Then yet more would simply quit and go elsewhere. It would be a large rate of turnover, even if not complete.

 

[southsider2k5]

If you were one of the managers of the charter administration charged with running these schools, trying to make them different and better and cut costs... would you really just blindly re-hire all the exact same people? No way. You review them all, keep some, hire new for others. Then yet more would simply quit and go elsewhere. It would be a large rate of turnover, even if not complete.

 

We went to some Magnet schools (essentially charter schools run by the school system) in our district. The turnover was less than you think.

[EvilMonkey]

That's probably a pretty small number of people he's "f***ing" over. But it is fairly regressive. You should applaud that, no? The moochers being forced to pay?

I know you think you are being smart there, but just how do people who go to Sox games or the museums or a play 'moochers'? If anything the city should be welcoming those dollars into their economy, not actively f***ing people who decide to visit. Several million at Sox/Cubs/bears/Bulls games? Museum attendance has to be high, and I bet more than half from out of the city. Again, how are they moochers? The parks were either privately built or with STATE funds.

[bmags]

I know you think you are being smart there, but just how do people who go to Sox games or the museums or a play 'moochers'? If anything the city should be welcoming those dollars into their economy, not actively f***ing people who decide to visit. Several million at Sox/Cubs/bears/Bulls games? Museum attendance has to be high, and I bet more than half from out of the city. Again, how are they moochers? The parks were either privately built or with STATE funds.

 

I'm talking about the cigarette tax.

 

But "actively f***ing" tourists over, is ridiculous. I doubt the amount will be large enough to prevent people from going to any of those things. Gas prices would make a bigger difference. White sox pricing would make a bigger difference. Chicago already reached the property tax threshold and has 10% sales tax, the money has to come from somewhere.

[Y2HH]

I'm talking about the cigarette tax.

 

But "actively f***ing" tourists over, is ridiculous. I doubt the amount will be large enough to prevent people from going to any of those things. Gas prices would make a bigger difference. White sox pricing would make a bigger difference. Chicago already reached the property tax threshold and has 10% sales tax, the money has to come from somewhere.

 

They've already f***ed themselves on the cigarette tax...just 3 years ago they were raking in almost twice as much tax money on cigarrettes than they are now...and that's not just because the good people of Chicago decided to quit for the health benefits...but because those same people are going over the border and buying them for less, or being priced out of smoking...

 

Hey, good for us non smokers...as I find smoking annoying...but the City was making millions per year off of it...and now that they're drying that well up, they'll have to find something else to tax. I'm sick of their tax everything mentality...especially when they pretend they do some of it for our own good.

 

Cigarette tax: Claim because it;s bad for us.

Soda tax: Claim because it's bad for us.

Bottled Water Tax: Claim because it's bad for the environment...yet the other two aren't?

[bmags]

They've already f***ed themselves on the cigarette tax...just 3 years ago they were raking in almost twice as much tax money on cigarrettes than they are now...and that's not just because the good people of Chicago decided to quit for the health benefits...but because those same people are going over the border and buying them for less, or being priced out of smoking...

 

Hey, good for us non smokers...as I find smoking annoying...but the City was making millions per year off of it...and now that they're drying that well up, they'll have to find something else to tax. I'm sick of their tax everything mentality...especially when they pretend they do some of it for our own good.

 

Cigarette tax: Claim because it;s bad for us.

Soda tax: Claim because it's bad for us.

Bottled Water Tax: Claim because it's bad for the environment...yet the other two aren't?

 

Right, I agree our tax base is largely at it's limits, that's why I was against the teacher strike. But the cigarette tax is mostly just going to punish the very poor. Frankly at this point there is no good revenue stream that hasn't been tapped into. The TIF rollbacks are probably the safest, but will still hurt quite a few people.

[bmags]

They've already f***ed themselves on the cigarette tax...just 3 years ago they were raking in almost twice as much tax money on cigarrettes than they are now.

Bottled Water Tax: Claim because it's bad for the environment...yet the other two aren't?

Also where did you read this? That seems too dramatic to be true.

[Y2HH]

Also where did you read this? That seems too dramatic to be true.

 

It's in this article:

 

"The city expects to bring in $18.7 million in cigarette taxes this year, compared with $32.9 million just six years ago, according to city financial records."

 

Sorry, it was 6 years...but still...that's a massive dropoff in a short amount of time.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09...amusement-taxes

[mr_genius]

It's in this article:

 

"The city expects to bring in $18.7 million in cigarette taxes this year, compared with $32.9 million just six years ago, according to city financial records."

 

Sorry, it was 6 years...but still...that's a massive dropoff in a short amount of time.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09...amusement-taxes

 

they have raised taxes so high that most people do not buy that particular product in the city anymore. typical dumbass politician move. just wait for the solution to make up for the lack of tax revenue; raise taxes on cigarettes again.

[mr_genius]

I'm talking about the cigarette tax.

 

But "actively f***ing" tourists over, is ridiculous. I doubt the amount will be large enough to prevent people from going to any of those things. Gas prices would make a bigger difference. White sox pricing would make a bigger difference. Chicago already reached the property tax threshold and has 10% sales tax, the money has to come from somewhere.

 

property taxes are going up again. possibly a Chicago income tax. more fees and higher sales taxes.

 

spend spend spend.

 

 

[kev211]

they have raised taxes so high that most people do not buy that particular product in the city anymore. typical dumbass politician move. just wait for the solution to make up for the lack of tax revenue; raise taxes on cigarettes again.

I honestly think it mostly has to do with a whole lot less people smoke nowadays then 6 years ago. Literally no one from the younger generations smoke anymore.

[greg775]

I honestly think it mostly has to do with a whole lot less people smoke nowadays then 6 years ago. Literally no one from the younger generations smoke anymore.

 

Do college kids smoke? I know they smoke marijuana. That's back in. What about cigs? Hey college guys ... what's the smoking status of kids in the various college towns in Illinois?

[StrangeSox]

Cigarette smoking rates have been declining steadily for a long time.

[Cknolls]

they have raised taxes so high that most people do not buy that particular product in the city anymore. typical dumbass politician move. just wait for the solution to make up for the lack of tax revenue; raise taxes on cigarettes again.

 

 

Wait. Let me write this one down. Higher taxes= lower tax revenue. Got it. Would never have thought of such an idea. Someone should ask the outstanding, hard-working city council about these facts. But they are probably too busy figuring out who they will tax next.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Cknolls