CTU is Going on Strike

[Balta1701]

Again, based on reality...their contracts, their unions...you can't just ignore these factors...which is what you're doing here.

No, I'm responding to a claim that adding days at the end of the year is bad for education, which, assuming the facilities are usable (i.e. air conditioned) is simply false.

 

I'll actually endorse Rahm's efforts to increase the length of the year and increase time for classroom instruction. That's one of the good educational reforms I've seen discussed, but of course, you can't just pretend that will happen for free.

[bmags]

There are two sides to that, places like that where walking is impossible...and places where walking is dangerous. In either case, I can go to any big city and show you places that are the exact opposite of what he claimed.

 

Driving: also very dangerous.

[Y2HH]

FWIW some of CPS has moved to "year-round" school years that have shorter summer breaks.

 

These schools still attend the exact same number of days, as per CPS contract. They just get more 2 week breaks throughout the year.

[StrangeSox]

I'm not saying added school is bad, but warmer weather WILL affect American students when they've grown up with guaranteed vacation days all summer long. If you started new kids from K-onward with a full school year, they'd probably adapt better to this than current students. This has nothing to do with my point that American students will tend to concentrate less as their extended vacation looms closer.

 

Also, since the teachers contract guarantees these vacations...try taking them away now. Hell, Rham tried to extend their school day by 1 hour and they flipped out and wanted huge raises. Try going to them and saying there will be no more summer vacation.

 

LOL.

 

Again, based on reality...their contracts, their unions...you can't just ignore these factors...which is what you're doing here.

 

You can have the same number of days but without the giant 10-week chasm in the middle. Chicago's Track E schools are moving toward this now.

 

http://www.cps.edu/Programs/DistrictInitia...endarTrackE.pdf

[StrangeSox]

These schools still attend the exact same number of days, as per CPS contract. They just get more 2 week breaks throughout the year.

 

Right, but the research shows that's a better structure. Not having enough in-class days likely isn't the central problem because we have more instructional hours than almost every other country.

[Y2HH]

No, I'm responding to a claim that adding days at the end of the year is bad for education, which, assuming the facilities are usable (i.e. air conditioned) is simply false.

 

I'll actually endorse Rahm's efforts to increase the length of the year and increase time for classroom instruction. That's one of the good educational reforms I've seen discussed, but of course, you can't just pretend that will happen for free.

 

Sorry, I misread what you were talking about then. I think if they set the expectations, it would work better than simply extending it on the students because of an action by the teachers. But again, these CPS contracts guarantee a certain number of working days, whether you extend them into the summer or not, they will end up with the same number of days off. Instead of a 3 month summer break, students will simply get a week off every month.

 

Perhaps that would work better, but they have to start doing it across the board.

[Balta1701]

There are two sides to that, places like that where walking is impossible...and places where walking is dangerous. In either case, I can go to any big city and show you places that are the exact opposite of what he claimed.

Of course you can. If you show me a baseball player who starts off as a 23 year old hitting .250 and 3 years later has turned into a .390 hitter every year, you can still say "but he still makes an out most of the time", but that doesn't disprove the claim "He's developed into an incredible hitter".

 

The trend towards people moving into the cities has been unmistakeable. Has that taken every neighborhood in the world and made it wealthy? Of course not. Will it ever? Will a baseball player ever bat 1.000 over a season?

[Y2HH]

Right, but the research shows that's a better structure. Not having enough in-class days likely isn't the central problem because we have more instructional hours than almost every other country.

 

I agree it probably is a better structure. But while this is experimental with Etrack, I guarantee if they tried a mass rollout of this, teachers would balk...and the union would b****.

[StrangeSox]

Sorry, I misread what you were talking about then. I think if they set the expectations, it would work better than simply extending it on the students because of an action by the teachers. But again, these CPS contracts guarantee a certain number of working days, whether you extend them into the summer or not, they will end up with the same number of days off. Instead of a 3 month summer break, students will simply get a week off every month.

 

Perhaps that would work better, but they have to start doing it across the board.

 

Let's say that the strike ends this week. I'd think that 8 months or so is plenty of time for students' expectations of when they're getting out this next summer to reset to the shifted calender.

[Y2HH]

Of course you can. If you show me a baseball player who starts off as a 23 year old hitting .250 and 3 years later has turned into a .390 hitter every year, you can still say "but he still makes an out most of the time", but that doesn't disprove the claim "He's developed into an incredible hitter".

 

The trend towards people moving into the cities has been unmistakeable. Has that taken every neighborhood in the world and made it wealthy? Of course not. Will it ever? Will a baseball player ever bat 1.000 over a season?

 

That wasn't my point at all.

 

So there is no point in going over it again.

[Y2HH]

Let's say that the strike ends this week. I'd think that 8 months or so is plenty of time for students' expectations of when they're getting out this next summer to reset to the shifted calender.

 

Like I said, give that a shot...see how the union reacts.

[StrangeSox]

Of course you can. If you show me a baseball player who starts off as a 23 year old hitting .250 and 3 years later has turned into a .390 hitter every year, you can still say "but he still makes an out most of the time", but that doesn't disprove the claim "He's developed into an incredible hitter".

 

The trend towards people moving into the cities has been unmistakeable. Has that taken every neighborhood in the world and made it wealthy? Of course not. Will it ever? Will a baseball player ever bat 1.000 over a season?

 

Gentrification can have negative impacts, too.

[Y2HH]

Lake Forest High Schools just went on strike, too.

[Balta1701]

Right, but the research shows that's a better structure. Not having enough in-class days likely isn't the central problem because we have more instructional hours than almost every other country.

Wait wait wait...that's not what the data I've seen shows. The data shows that you get teachers in this country teaching more hours than any other country...but that doesn't mean that you get students getting more instruction than in any other country, that just means we expect the teachers in this country to work more hours than anywhere else.

[Y2HH]

Don't any of you have jobs?

[southsider2k5]

Right, but the research shows that's a better structure. Not having enough in-class days likely isn't the central problem because we have more instructional hours than almost every other country.

 

The problem is the NEA is the biggest opposition to fixing the school year.

[StrangeSox]

CPS janitors have filed a strike notice. I believe it's a solidarity thing.

[Balta1701]

The problem is the NEA is the biggest opposition to fixing the school year.

Or to phrase it another way...the problem is that the NEA doesn't want to take on more responsibility if they're not being compensated for it.

[Balta1701]

CPS janitors have filed a strike notice. I believe it's a solidarity thing.

[StrangeSox]

The problem is the NEA is the biggest opposition to fixing the school year.

 

They don't seem particularly negative here, but I don't really know their history on the issue.

[southsider2k5]

Or to phrase it another way...the problem is that the NEA doesn't want to take on more responsibility if they're not being compensated for it.

 

The same amount of days, just spread out differently.

[southsider2k5]

They don't seem particularly negative here, but I don't really know their history on the issue.

 

I guess that is second-hand info through the head of my local teachers union. By and large teachers don't want to give up their summers, supposedly by a ridiculous amount.

[Y2HH]

I guess that is second-hand info through the head of my local teachers union. By and large teachers don't want to give up their summers, supposedly by a ridiculous amount.

 

Would you? I know I wouldn't.

[StrangeSox]

Wait wait wait...that's not what the data I've seen shows. The data shows that you get teachers in this country teaching more hours than any other country...but that doesn't mean that you get students getting more instruction than in any other country, that just means we expect the teachers in this country to work more hours than anywhere else.

 

http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Ma...-the-US-compare

 

The data clearly shows that most U.S. schools require at least as much or more instructional time as other countries, even high-performing countries like Finland, Japan, and Korea. It is important to keep in mind, however, that these comparisons are based on required minimums. It’s possible that certain schools in these countries and states do provide more time for instruction. Furthermore, students in countries like China, India, Japan, and Korea have a tradition of receiving additional instruction through non-formal schooling such as tutoring and night schools, especially at the high school level, which could also have an impact.

 

However, the point should not be lost: the U.S. does not require schools to provide less instructional time than other countries.

[StrangeSox]

I guess that is second-hand info through the head of my local teachers union. By and large teachers don't want to give up their summers, supposedly by a ridiculous amount.

 

They're definitely not full-throated in support of it, but the headlines of the studies they link seem to range from positive to neutral-with-both-good-and-some-concerns.