CTU is Going on Strike

[NorthSideSox72]

I have a lot of experience with the other end of the spectrum. The school system I went through, my wife teaches in, and I even spent two months teaching in, is always near the bottom of the ratings. We have a 70%ish poverty rating for kids in our system, with a few schools basically at 100%. Over the years I have seen some really, really bad teachers. There are a lot of good ones as well. The problem is there is no real way to move the ones who are good and young, and replace them for the ones who are old and bad. Young and bad is still fairly easy to get rid of. They don't last long. The problem is when they make it through those first few years, and then burnout sets in, along with the reality that changing professions at that point would be pretty stupid.

 

I've seen it from the unions angle, the teachers angle, the administrative angle, and even the school boards angle. Now I am even learning the parents angle.

 

This nations educational system needs tons of work, to say the least. I was happy to see Indiana take an honest shot at balancing out the districts funding issues, but even that only goes so far. Parents are by far and away the biggest factor here, both good and bad.

 

Perfect example. I know someone who uses corporal punishment out of anger on a regular (probably 2-3 times per day) basis. Whether it is a solid smack in the mouth, or a spanking, it happens. The soon to be 5 year old, goes to Pre-K, and low and behold hits other kids. Common sense tells us that the kid sees hitting as a way to show anger, as it happens to him regularly, right? Nope. It is the teachers fault for showing favoritism. The scary thing is that this household is fairly stable compared to many in the district. There is a good chunk (not a majority, but a sizable minority) of the school system where the kids are literally going to school for no other reason than a couple of free meals.

 

Now take these backgrounds and wheel them into a single school, or school system even. Who wants to teach here? The good teachers are most likely not going to feel that their efforts are worth the headaches. In this situations, money doesn't make that big of a difference. I have seen it first hand. Funding only makes minimal difference, especially once you have exited the critical early years where you can capture a kid and rescue them from the cycle of failure. Once they have hit middle school, and still can't read, it is too late. Yet our federal school system tells us we still need to treat them as an expected college student, until at least 16 years old.

 

Standardized testing is the stupidest way to evaluation teachers in the history of the world, for this exact reason. It assumes all kids are equal, when they aren't. The only common sense way to approach evaluations is by in-building administration. The people who know and appreciate all of the local conditions and information are the ones who are most qualified to evaluate staff. It is also the exact reason the movement of school decision making from the local levels to state and federal ones, has been such a failure. It doesn't address the needs of a specific community. It has no idea about Michigan City Indiana.

 

And final thought, of all of the worst employees in the world to protect, why teachers? If teachers are as important as they say they are, isn't it all of the more important that the bad ones get weeded out, whether it takes two or twenty years? With the window between success and failure being so small now, why let a bad teacher affect possibly generations of kids, just because they have put in their time? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

I probably should stop ranting now.

 

Good post.

 

When I left undergrad, I moved out west, and thought I was going to be a teacher (Social Studies or the like). So I started a Masters program (combined with teaching cert) in Public Ed. My first student teaching assignment, I specifically requested a hard luck school, because I didn't want to get the same type of school I had already been through. The school I got was the worst in the district in terms of poverty, performance, and crime. The first day I was there, they went over certain rules, and it was amazing. They actually said things like "don't start romantic relationships with students", as if that had to be said. And oh yeah, you can't kick a kid out of class, unless a teacher can escort them to the administators, because then kids leave the school and get into gang activity for the day.

 

This school made national news while I was there, for drafting a paper that parents had to sign if their kid planned to drop out of high school - it forced them to read aloud statements about the likelihood of their child dying or failing in other various ways going up astronomically, then had to sign each part, to say, yes, I accept this. It was an interesting experiment, and I am not sure if they still do it.

 

So I did get a small glimpse of that life. And as you said, there were a few teachers - very good ones in fact. But the majority, I was amazed at how bad they were.

 

[StrangeSox]

My friend who works in CPS teaching 4th grade and my other friend who works with BD high school students in the suburbs recently compared the number of times they've had punches thrown at them.

[G&T]

18 is average, so I'm sure.

 

The national average last year was 21 and that includes people who take it and get a 10 or something and don't go to college.

 

For a subset of professionals to be at a 19 is pretty bad...but just googling shows that the number is probably right.

 

[Y2HH]

The national average last year was 21 and that includes people who take it and get a 10 or something and don't go to college.

 

For a subset of professionals to be at a 19 is pretty bad...but just googling shows that the number is probably right.

 

I think the national average of teachers they hired was 21...not everyone.

 

When I was in high school, the national average of everyone taking the test was 18...so if it's 21 now, that means education improved...when we know it didn't.

 

Edit: Looked this up...I'm just not buying this as fact. Either they made the test easier, people are cheating, or students have gotten smarter...which I refuse to believe. If anything, I think education in this country has gotten worse...not better, especially to the point that the national average is up 3 points.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Y2HH

[southsider2k5]

My friend who works in CPS teaching 4th grade and my other friend who works with BD high school students in the suburbs recently compared the number of times they've had punches thrown at them.

 

A phenomenon at our school is that kids actually come to school sometimes for the express purpose of fighting. They know it is a relatively "safe" place to fight, because it gets broke up rather quickly. Kids get their street cred for being tough, take a few punches, and move on.

[southsider2k5]

I think the national average of teachers they hired was 21...not everyone.

 

When I was in high school, the national average of everyone taking the test was 18...so if it's 21 now, that means education improved...when we know it didn't.

 

Edit: Looked this up...I'm just not buying this as fact. Either they made the test easier, people are cheating, or students have gotten smarter...which I refuse to believe. If anything, I think education in this country has gotten worse...not better, especially to the point that the national average is up 3 points.

 

Or people have gotten better at understanding what is on the test.

[Y2HH]

Or people have gotten better at understanding what is on the test.

 

I see what they did to raise the average.

 

They now only count "graduates" scores. So if you never graduate high school or get a GED, I believe your score isn't counted anymore...which would probably make sense enough to raise the national average by 3 points.

 

I think this is statistical manipulation...part of the problem of our school system to begin with.

[southsider2k5]

Good post.

 

When I left undergrad, I moved out west, and thought I was going to be a teacher (Social Studies or the like). So I started a Masters program (combined with teaching cert) in Public Ed. My first student teaching assignment, I specifically requested a hard luck school, because I didn't want to get the same type of school I had already been through. The school I got was the worst in the district in terms of poverty, performance, and crime. The first day I was there, they went over certain rules, and it was amazing. They actually said things like "don't start romantic relationships with students", as if that had to be said. And oh yeah, you can't kick a kid out of class, unless a teacher can escort them to the administators, because then kids leave the school and get into gang activity for the day.

 

This school made national news while I was there, for drafting a paper that parents had to sign if their kid planned to drop out of high school - it forced them to read aloud statements about the likelihood of their child dying or failing in other various ways going up astronomically, then had to sign each part, to say, yes, I accept this. It was an interesting experiment, and I am not sure if they still do it.

 

So I did get a small glimpse of that life. And as you said, there were a few teachers - very good ones in fact. But the majority, I was amazed at how bad they were.

 

It is a different world, especially if you have never been there. I feel awful for teachers who grew up in the rich and totally white school districts who take their first teaching job in our school system. Most don't make it more than a year or two.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I think the national average of teachers they hired was 21...not everyone.

 

When I was in high school, the national average of everyone taking the test was 18...so if it's 21 now, that means education improved...when we know it didn't.

 

Edit: Looked this up...I'm just not buying this as fact. Either they made the test easier, people are cheating, or students have gotten smarter...which I refuse to believe. If anything, I think education in this country has gotten worse...not better, especially to the point that the national average is up 3 points.

 

Looks like the test changed around 1990. The average was about 19 before then and has been around 21 since then.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d98/d98t135.asp

[StrangeSox]

CTU chief: Deal likely today but classes may not resume until Monday

[StrangeSox]

NSS, s2k5, thanks for some great posts in the last page or two.

[MurcieOne]

9-13-12 Tribune Editorial

 

Didn't see this posted. I think the Tribune Editorial Dept has done a great job of covering the issues this week.

[Y2HH]

Looks like the test changed around 1990. The average was about 19 before then and has been around 21 since then.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d98/d98t135.asp

 

I only scored a 22.

 

I remember most of my scores were around 18, but I scored like 30 in Science.

[StrangeSox]

I got a perfect score in reading comprehension :smug:

 

Math was my worst section. So I went into engineering. Makes perfect sense. A few years ago Naperville's school district had a big cheating scandal with the ACT and I think they had to re-do the testing for everyone.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I got a perfect score in reading comprehension :smug:

 

Math was my worst section.

 

I guess you didn't read your math book, because if you did, you would have comprehended all of it!

 

HAW HAW

[southsider2k5]

I got a perfect score in reading comprehension :smug:

 

Math was my worst section. So I went into engineering. Makes perfect sense. A few years ago Naperville's school district had a big cheating scandal with the ACT and I think they had to re-do the testing for everyone.

 

I never took the ACT. I took the SAT like 5 times, because a guidance counselor had me scared I need this awesome score, that I didn't actually need to get into college.

[southsider2k5]

NSS, s2k5, thanks for some great posts in the last page or two.

 

No problem. It is a passion for me. There is a reason I ran for school board twice now, and have managed others campaigns.

[NorthSideSox72]

Even though the public school systems as a whole may seem to be going downhill, I do think kids are getting smarter generationally, and more capable. Though I do think they are losing work ethic and motivation - again, as a whole. There are always exceptions.

 

I've talked to a few kids in the neighborhood we moved into in 2010, in a very strong public school district. The parents and kids say the same thing - the kids in that school are working harder now than they did as kids. I have started to believe that what is really happening, is that the performance and education gap between good schools and bad ones is increasing. So for some kids, education is getting better. For others, worse.

 

And what is really interesting about that is, as I noted before, the funding gap between inner city schools and rich suburban ones is actually narrowing. This would seem to indicate that more money - by itself - is not the main solution to the problem. Which isn't to say it isn't part of the picture (I am sure some poor schools are in need of a lot of resources they don't have). It makes me wonder, if the funding levels are increasing faster in city schools than suburban ones, where is the money going? And of the places that money goes, what makes it effective?

 

[Cknolls]

Something is suspicious about that. Are they zeroing people who didn't take the test? Can you get into college with an ACT in the teens?

 

 

 

Polls the USC football team................Yes that is affirmative.....

[Iwritecode]

I guess you didn't read your math book, because if you did, you would have comprehended all of it!

 

HAW HAW

 

I always did well on the math portion of standardized tests by simply knowing that the correct answer was always one of the choices. It was just a matter of plugging each one into the formula and seeing which one fit.

[NorthSideSox72]

I always did well on the math portion of standardized tests by simply knowing that the correct answer was always one of the choices. It was just a matter of plugging each one into the formula and seeing which one fit.

That goes to the fact that there is a seperate skill for test-taking itself. Being good at tests can get you an extra few points on these things, regardless of your knowledge of the subject matter.

 

[southsider2k5]

That goes to the fact that there is a seperate skill for test-taking itself. Being good at tests can get you an extra few points on these things, regardless of your knowledge of the subject matter.

 

Which is how I improved my SATs by a ridiculous amount.

[Balta1701]

Even though the public school systems as a whole may seem to be going downhill, I do think kids are getting smarter generationally, and more capable. Though I do think they are losing work ethic and motivation - again, as a whole. There are always exceptions.

Without even going to the anecdotes, nationwide, test scores, graduation rates, and general performance indicators have been rising for a couple decades now. May not be rising as fast as we'd like them to be, but "the public school systems are going downhill" isn't well supported.

[NorthSideSox72]

Without even going to the anecdotes, nationwide, test scores, graduation rates, and general performance indicators have been rising for a couple decades now. May not be rising as fast as we'd like them to be, but "the public school systems are going downhill" isn't well supported.

Yeah, as I said, I think more than anything we are seeing a greater divide in education results, between haves and have-nots. Similar to the income gaps increasing, with the middle thinning out.

 

[bigruss]

That goes to the fact that there is a seperate skill for test-taking itself. Being good at tests can get you an extra few points on these things, regardless of your knowledge of the subject matter.

Yup, I consider myself slightly above average intelligence wise, first time I took the ACT I got a 24 (I was also worried about making varsity baseball as tryouts were at the same time). Then I took a class from a teacher who ran a little side business of helping students with standardized tests (from PRE-SAT to GMAT) and he did wonders in terms of my test taking skills. I wasn't rushing through answers, was pacing myself better, and knew more of the tricks that they put into those tests (which really have nothing to do with your intelligence), ended up scoring a 30 the next time.