CTU is Going on Strike

[NorthSideSox72]

I mr genius

 

[mr_genius]

I mr genius

 

you might not after you hear my proposal to tax people from the burbs that work in the city. bye bye 10% of your paycheck.

[mr_genius]

so the question is, how much do we tax the day trippers to the city? 10% or 20% of their salary.

 

what is their fair share?

 

discuss.

[southsider2k5]

so the question is, how much do we tax the day trippers to the city? 10% or 20% of their salary.

 

what is their fair share?

 

discuss.

 

Only if we can institute a food tax on you city dwelling bastards.

[Balta1701]

Only if we can institute a food tax on you city dwelling bastards.

How about the people living in the city just pay property and sales taxes and the people commuting pay tolls on the roads and train ticket prices?

[mr_genius]

Only if we can institute a food tax on you city dwelling bastards.

 

you have yourself a deal.

 

 

[mr_genius]

people commuting pay tolls on the roads and train ticket prices?

 

no i want to directly take money from their paychecks.

[StrangeSox]

Can the Chicago Teachers’ Strike Fix Democratic Education Reform?

 

(more at the link)

Applying business school principles to the education of young children, Emanuel and his wealthy supporters favor firing teachers based heavily on student test score results and deregulating education by expanding the number of charter schools. But while much of the press equates standing up to unions with education reform, key reforms that unions opposed have not worked out as planned. Although 88 percent of charters are nonunion, giving principals in those schools the flexibility that reformers prize, the most comprehensive study of charter schools (backed by pro-charter foundations), concluded that charters are about twice as likely to underperform regular public schools as to outperform them. During the strike, nonunion charter schools have bragged that they remained open, but the lack of teacher voice in these schools helps explain why charters nationally have extremely high rates of teacher turnover.

 

The theory that a nonunion environment, which allows for policies like merit pay, would make all the difference in promoting educational achievement never held much water. After all, teachers unions are weak-to-nonexistent throughout much of the American South, yet the region hardly distinguishes itself educationally. Indeed, the highest performing states, such as Massachusetts and New Jersey—and the highest performing nations, such as Finland—have heavily unionized teaching forces.

 

To some teachers union skeptics, like the New York Times editorial page, the very fact that Chicago teachers decided to go on strike was itself evidence that they did not care sufficiently about children. “Teachers’ strikes, because they hurt children and their families, are never a good idea,” the Times opined. But this attitude displays a stunning ignorance of the way collective bargaining works: If teachers unilaterally disarmed, saying they would never go on strike, they would lose all leverage and go back to collective begging rather than collective bargaining.

Of course, teacher strikes should be a last resort—extended strikes do harm the children’s learning—but sometimes teachers must assert themselves, particularly as they fight for greater resources and reduced class size for themselves and students. Moreover, a brief strike can have its own educational value for children. As labor attorney Moshe Marvit told me, “In Chicago, 350,000 public school students are experiencing, first-hand, how workers can band together and demand a voice in the workplace.” Noting the many children present on picket lines, Marvit suggests, “These teachers are teaching their students, through action, the power of collective action and solidarity.” And according to Reuters, a poll earlier this week found that 66 percent of parents with children in the Chicago Public Schools supported the strike.

[Soxbadger]

Did you really just quote an article that used the south having worse scores than areas with teachers unions, as evidence of teacher unions being good?

 

Why dont we compare apples to apples.

 

Lets compare a private school in Chicago (no union) to a public school in Chicago.

 

Think about it, and then realize why that entire article completely missed the point.

 

Its not about whether unions are good, bad or indifferent, its about what can we do to ensure that children receive the best education. And Im sorry, but unlike the teachers union, I think that all options should be on the table and there should be no sacred cows.

 

If that is so wrong, I dont understand the world anymore.

 

Simply put, show me some evidence that the teachers union has helped children, because we all know that the union helps teachers. The point isnt about helping teachers, its about helping children.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Soxbadger

[CrimsonWeltall]

the most comprehensive study of charter schools (backed by pro-charter foundations), concluded that charters are about twice as likely to underperform regular public schools as to outperform them

 

In that study, the Chicago charter schools outperformed the traditional public schools.

[Balta1701]

In that study, the Chicago charter schools outperformed the traditional public schools.

Charter schools are a really complex issue. The evidence is that some of them do seriously outperform, but some of them seriously underperform, and a lot of it depends on how you set it up. If you set it up so that the Charter School is something that people want to get into, where there's a lottery and the parents of the kids actually are the ones most willing to be involved, they wind up being great successes, but you can't tell if that's because of the school or because of the fact that you selected the kids whose parents wanted to be involved.

 

If you set it up so that there's no rules on them, they're just a way to save money, you wind up with schools that teach that the Trail of Tears was a way to bring the Native Americans to Christ (See: Louisiana) and no one cares about anything except stripping the money out.

 

They're worth exploring, there really are benefits to having private run ones as a "reward" for the people who are involved heavily in their kids lives but are stuck in poor circumstances, but it's not a magic solution to make every education system better, and "competition" doesn't magically make the nearby public school system better if they wind up losing resources.

[StrangeSox]

You don't necessarily need to privatize the schools if you want to run deregulation experiments, though.

[StrangeSox]

Did you really just quote an article that used the south having worse scores than areas with teachers unions, as evidence of teacher unions being good?

 

Why dont we compare apples to apples.

 

Lets compare a private school in Chicago (no union) to a public school in Chicago.

 

Think about it, and then realize why that entire article completely missed the point.

 

Its not about whether unions are good, bad or indifferent, its about what can we do to ensure that children receive the best education. And Im sorry, but unlike the teachers union, I think that all options should be on the table and there should be no sacred cows.

 

If that is so wrong, I dont understand the world anymore.

 

Simply put, show me some evidence that the teachers union has helped children, because we all know that the union helps teachers. The point isnt about helping teachers, its about helping children.

 

No, I quoted an article that countered some anti-union "reform" rhetoric that claims teachers unions' are the problem.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ya know, if people think the CTU teachers look bad here... how about the Lake Forest HS teachers? They make on average almost twice what CPS teachers do, and the Lake Forest ones are striking purely about money. Kind of hard to get the community in your corner when you are striking over money and most of you make 6 figures.

 

[caulfield12]

the teachers are as bad (maybe worse). they are the top 10% er's stealing from the poor. raising taxes on the poor guy who gets 15k a year and is barely making it. now it looks like another winter without heat for his family. but at least the teacher can get that new Range Rover now.

 

 

When were the teachers the ones in Congress enacting tax policies?

 

I think that would be mostly industry-paid lawyers and lobbyists. The poor guy earning only $15K per year should be paying LITTLE or no money in taxes, the way the system was designed. He might even be getting a credit or subsidy for actually working but having an income near the poverty rate for a family of 4.

 

There are also subsidies for working poor to received lowered rates on their heat...deferred/discounted payments, etc.

 

Where are these teachers with Range Rovers?

 

Principals, Assistant Principals OCCASIONALLY, etc. But not salaried teachers. And it certainly wasn't anything close to the norm. (And what about all those who looted the country and taxpayers working for the Big Banks, Countrywide Loans, etc.? Did they take away all their BMW's, Mercedes and Audis?)

 

In Kansas City, my salary in 2006-07 with 5 years of experience and 2 Master's degrees was $44,000.

 

I'm not even close to Mitt Romney's vision of what "middle class" is defined as, now am I?

[caulfield12]

Ya know, if people think the CTU teachers look bad here... how about the Lake Forest HS teachers? They make on average almost twice what CPS teachers do, and the Lake Forest ones are striking purely about money. Kind of hard to get the community in your corner when you are striking over money and most of you make 6 figures.

 

 

Zion, IL, too, high 5 figures salaries are very common, if not low 100's.

[mr_genius]

Kind of hard to get the community in your corner when you are striking over money and most of you make 6 figures.

 

the vast majority of Chicago is against a raise for these overpaid teachers.

[mr_genius]

When were the teachers the ones in Congress enacting tax policies?

 

we are talking about city taxes and county taxes. can't blame G.W. Bush for this one.

[caulfield12]

Did you really just quote an article that used the south having worse scores than areas with teachers unions, as evidence of teacher unions being good?

 

Why dont we compare apples to apples.

 

Lets compare a private school in Chicago (no union) to a public school in Chicago.

 

Think about it, and then realize why that entire article completely missed the point.

 

Its not about whether unions are good, bad or indifferent, its about what can we do to ensure that children receive the best education. And Im sorry, but unlike the teachers union, I think that all options should be on the table and there should be no sacred cows.

 

If that is so wrong, I dont understand the world anymore.

 

Simply put, show me some evidence that the teachers union has helped children, because we all know that the union helps teachers. The point isnt about helping teachers, its about helping children.

 

How many poor or middle class parents have ever been able to make up the difference between the vouchers they're to be issued and the actual cost of education at an elite private school?

 

It happens, in theory, but maybe only 2-3% of the time, at most.

 

I have a feeling the same thing will happen when they start privatizing Medicare...great if you have money, not so great if you're struggling middle class or poor.

[caulfield12]

we are talking about city taxes and county taxes. can't blame G.W. Bush for this one.

 

 

What is the marginal tax rate in the US compared to most of the industrialized world?

 

In the bottom 25%.

 

And yet in surveys of "happiness," why do those "socialized" countries like Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, etc., always finish higher than the US, despite freezing cold weather for much of the year?

[caulfield12]

the vast majority of Chicago is against a raise for these overpaid teachers.

 

 

Sounds like you did a scientific poll with +/- accuracy of 3-4% or less.

 

May I ask a question? What is your job, exactly?

[mr_genius]

how about the Lake Forest HS teachers? They make on average almost twice what CPS teachers do, and the Lake Forest ones are striking purely about money. Kind of hard to get the community in your corner when you are striking over money and most of you make 6 figures.

 

why shouldn't they? they are entitled to that money. so pay up.

[caulfield12]

why shouldn't they? they are entitled to that money. so pay up.

 

 

And your salary is less than $30,000 per year?

 

You are a Peace Corps volunteer and make the "standardized rate of poverty" stipend?

 

For example, when I was in AmeriCorps in 1998, it was $8,740, they don't even call it a salary. I did get a "education award" like the military/GI Bill, but it was 20% less.

[mr_genius]

And your salary is less than $30,000 per year?

 

You are a Peace Corps volunteer and make the "standardized rate of poverty" stipend?

 

i'm not getting into a "who's richer" argument.

[caulfield12]

i'm not getting into a "who's richer" argument.

 

 

That's why you will end up like Romney.

 

It's not going to be a winning argument, no matter how you spin it, when you're criticizing professionals in another field.