CTU is Going on Strike

[Jenksismyhero]

But its easy to gloss over those and blame the teachers instead.

 

Just like it's easy to say "throw more money at the problem" despite the fact that doing that does nothing. Let's all face reality here. There's a subculture in this city that doesn't value education at all, that doesn't value parenting at all. Giving the school more money, paying the teachers more and all that means nothing when those kids show up to school simply to get 2 free meals. Yes, that's related to an economic/wealth disparity problem, but that's a HUGE part of why the CPS is generally a terrible system. The participants don't care because the parents don't care.

 

I mean, how sad is it that people used the "well if they're not in school they'll be on the streets committing crime" argument as a justification to open school doors? That is f***ing pathetic.

[Soxbadger]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...892291.htmlpage

 

When I read that, I really dont see how this was about the children.

 

They dont even discuss supplies or class sizes until page 3.

[Soxbadger]

Buried under the whole "there's no money!" claim is a whole lot of larger taxation and wealth/income equality issues.

 

Its not buried anywhere, its front and foremost of anyone who is telling CTU to shut up for the time being. If you want to fix this larger issue, the first thing you need to do is make sure that the President/Congress is on your side. How do you do that? You win national elections.

 

So part of my anger against CTU is that they are seriously rocking the boat in a year that could drastically impact the funding of all social services.

 

They need to open their eyes and leave well enough alone. Because they may think Rahm is bad, but thats just because they are clearly unaware of a man named Scott Walker.

 

I mean, how sad is it that people used the "well if they're not in school they'll be on the streets committing crime" argument as a justification to open school doors? That is f***ing pathetic.

 

Well its true. When I wasnt in school, I was out breaking the law. That being said when I was in school I was breaking the law. Just confined so unable to hurt society.

 

Ill never forget the last day of 7th grade, got kicked out of school early and then arrested a few hours later. The police just kind of laughed at our crime spree and said "You guys have been busy, we have numerous reports that lead to your arrest."

 

 

[Balta1701]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...892291.htmlpage

 

When I read that, I really dont see how this was about the children.

 

They dont even discuss supplies or class sizes until page 3.

Length of day is item #1 on the list.

[StrangeSox]

I don't understand your "shut up" idea here. I don't think working under the previous contract for the rest of the year was a realistic option (I may be wrong on that one) and the CPS proposal was 4 years. That's four years under a contract 90% of your membership doesn't want and it puts you right back into Presidential Election Season.

[Jenksismyhero]

Ugh: "Racial Diversity - Board must promote racial diversity in hiring." In other words, "Stop looking at white candidates and hire more black and hispanic teachers."

 

If you're going to be all reverse racist about it, just f***ing be honest. God I hate that crap.

[Soxbadger]

Length of day is item #1 on the list.

 

Right, the teachers are arguing kids should be in school LESS time.

 

How does that "help students." Unless there is some study that shows students who go to school more than 7 hours do worse than those who go to school less than 7 hours.

 

 

I don't understand your "shut up" idea here. I don't think working under the previous contract for the rest of the year was a realistic option (I may be wrong on that one) and the CPS proposal was 4 years. That's four years under a contract 90% of your membership doesn't want and it puts you right back into Presidential Election Season.

 

You agree to an interim deal (something like 6 months) and if you cant work it out, you strike then.

 

That way you have support in what you are doing. That way you can go "We worked on good faith and Rahm screwed us." Because that is the real question, why cant they work in good faith?

Edited September 18, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

You agree to an interim deal (something like 6 months) and if you cant work it out, you strike then.

 

That way you have support in what you are doing. That way you can go "We worked on good faith and Rahm screwed us." Because that is the real question, why cant they work in good faith?

At the end of a school year? Then you're almost guaranteeing yourself a 4-month strike every time the contract comes up for renewal. Same reason the NFL didn't get their CBA done until they were really at the threat of losing games. Striking over the summer does nothing.

[flippedoutpunk]

So the strike is suspended. Does this mean the kids get air conditioning and the classrooms are a lot smaller from now on?

[Soxbadger]

At the end of a school year? Then you're almost guaranteeing yourself a 4-month strike every time the contract comes up for renewal. Same reason the NFL didn't get their CBA done until they were really at the threat of losing games. Striking over the summer does nothing.

 

6 months was from the start of the school year so that would be March, where a strike would be just as effective. More likely I would have agreed to hold off until winter break and say that teachers wont be returning unless the contract is agreed to before then.

 

Its funny you comment on the NFL. They struck over the summer and a deal was reached before the first game. Usually when you have reasonable sides the deal is done before any time is lost.

 

Also it seems they are doing exactly what I suggested, keep working while the final agreement is hammered out.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-teachers-vot...-222152623.html

 

Tuesday's vote was not on the contract offer itself, but on whether to continue the strike. The contract will now be submitted to a vote by the full membership of more than 25,000 teachers.

 

So in essence they could have worked the last week or so, they just chose not to.

[flippedoutpunk]

Yep the teachers are definitely back.. (as per my facebook account)

 

 

Hope y'all get that raise you were standing outside for.

[southsider2k5]

Buried under the whole "there's no money!" claim is a whole lot of larger taxation and wealth/income equality issues.

 

In the City of Chicago, that is a terrible, horrible argument. You can't make a worse argument. It is literally the most taxed city in the entire United States. If taxation were the issue, Chicago should have the best of everything in the US. They don't.

[StrangeSox]

In the United States of America, it is not a horrible argument.

[mr_genius]

In the United States of America, it is not a horrible argument.

 

you going to tax Mitt Romney to fix the Chicago billion dollar budget shortfall?

[StrangeSox]

Money sitting in offshore Cayman Island and Swiss bank accounts could help solve a lot of funding issues.

[mr_genius]

Money sitting in offshore Cayman Island and Swiss bank accounts could help solve a lot of funding issues.

 

even if you could get that money and give it to the US government, it would just get wasted immediately.

[southsider2k5]

In the United States of America, it is not a horrible argument.

 

In this thread, yes, it is.

[StrangeSox]

I guess you're right, funding for the CPS is completely static. My mistake.

[Y2HH]

I guess you're right, funding for the CPS is completely static. My mistake.

 

Taxes aren't static, either. So your right, your mistake.

[southsider2k5]

I guess you're right, funding for the CPS is completely static. My mistake.

 

So in a system that already pays more than anywhere else in the country, the answer is more money. If the answer was more money, Chicago should already have one of the best school systems in the entire country. At somepoint it just becomes raping the taxpayers, because the results sure as hell aren't there.

[Jenksismyhero]

Money sitting in offshore Cayman Island and Swiss bank accounts could help solve a lot of funding issues.

 

Why should that money be yours or mine? I just don't understand this liberal mentality you share with Obama - "it's your responsibility" to pay for everyone else. f*** that nonsense.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Why should that money be yours or mine? I just don't understand this liberal mentality you share with Obama - "it's your responsibility" to pay for everyone else. f*** that nonsense.

I assume he meant this in reference to taxation and fairness - that the money in those tax shelters may not be taxed as fully as other monies for most people in the states. I don't think he meant that the US was simply entitled to his money.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I assume he meant this in reference to taxation and fairness - that the money in those tax shelters may not be taxed as fully as other monies for most people in the states. I don't think he meant that the US was simply entitled to his money.

 

The same principle applies to taxation. We can tax the rich at 100% and still not fix the underlying problems with our system. I mean, i'm all about taxing the rich a little more, especially in lieu of taxing the middle class. But there's a sense that rich people owe their good fortune to the rest of society, and that's a bunch of bologna.

 

As SS2k5 pointed out, we've gone how many decades now throwing money at problems and it rarely, if ever, works. The hand just stays open asking for more. Paying teachers more and hiring more teachers in a s***ty school system with kids that don't care about school isn't going to magically transform those kids into Rhode Scholars. We need to blow the system up and start over.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

I think there are a lot of good things in here for teacher evaluation, and chicago will continue it's climb in educating it's students.

 

But notice how the strike ended despite there still being overcrowded classrooms and other outcomes "for the kids". Those were red herrings.

[NorthSideSox72]

The same principle applies to taxation. We can tax the rich at 100% and still not fix the underlying problems with our system. I mean, i'm all about taxing the rich a little more, especially in lieu of taxing the middle class. But there's a sense that rich people owe their good fortune to the rest of society, and that's a bunch of bologna.

 

As SS2k5 pointed out, we've gone how many decades now throwing money at problems and it rarely, if ever, works. The hand just stays open asking for more. Paying teachers more and hiring more teachers in a s***ty school system with kids that don't care about school isn't going to magically transform those kids into Rhode Scholars. We need to blow the system up and start over.

Whoa, hey now, I wasn't even saying I agreed with SS. Just trying to clarify what I thought was a misunderstanding. Don't go making assumptions aboout how I feel about this.

 

I am pretty sure what he's getting at is that some of that sheltered money generates income and financial gain that is taxed at a much lower rate than what some other, less well off people are taxed. At least that is how I took it.