CTU is Going on Strike

[Balta1701]

Some more numbers. In chicago, the number someone posted said what, 86% of the system qualifies for reduced price lunches? THat number is about 65% in los angeles and 78% in new york. Based on this metric, one would expect that the Chicago school system would produce the worst results of the three, but it's actually close to NYC and outperforms the LAUSD on standardized tests. Of course that could be because of a language issue in LAUSD, but without having a real study here, those quick numbers make it seem like the CSD performs better than you'd expect based on the economic status of the students in the area.

 

Also, I still can't get my head around this salary data. This is from Reuters:

Chicago teachers make a mean of $61,790 annually for a primary school teacher to $69,470 for high school, according to government figures, which is slightly lower than comparable urban district New York City but a bit higher than Los Angeles.

How you can come up with $73-$76 if that's the mean at those levels I'm still struggling to figure out. Really well paid special education?

[flippedoutpunk]

For s***s and giggles on iirc.niu.edu I looked at the scores for Audubon Elementary School in Roscoe village because I remember the years when Roscoe Village was a far cry from the Roscoe Village neighborhood that exists today. With each year of gentrification in the neighborhood the scores that Meet and Exceed the Illinois Standards Achievement Test as a school have gone from 55% to 93% from the years 2002 to 2011.

 

So yes there is something to be said for students that come from low income households.

Edited September 10, 2012 by flippedoutpunk

[Harry Chappas]

There is a huge correlation between the socioeconomic status of the parents and the performance of the kids in school. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the single biggest factor in determining the average outcome of a population of students.

 

Thus, if you tell me that the population of students is performing vastly below average, but its from a group that is economically disadvantaged, I'm not surprised.

 

The next question then is...how are they performing when you control for socioeconomic status?

 

You could have the best group of teachers in the world, but if they're put into a district where 90% of the population qualifies for reduced price meals, the overall results on average will look poor, because the greatest teachers in the country will be swamped out by socioeconomic status compared to an area with a more average income distribution. I'd like to see that variable controlled for so that I can judge that performance level.

 

Taking student performance out of the equation they are still grossly overcompensated in my mind. I ma not talking just salary but the whole benefits package of teachers in the state of Illinois is bloated.

[bmags]

Taking student performance out of the equation they are still grossly overcompensated in my mind. I ma not talking just salary but the whole benefits package of teachers in the state of Illinois is bloated.

 

It's really the pensions that kill everything. You can't grow the teacher force without further compounding an issue.

[southsider2k5]

Where is that argument going? Poor people arent smart?

 

In the simplest of senses, yes. They do way worse than kids of higher socioeconomic backgrounds. Are their exceptions? Sure. But statistically speaking, it is a truism.

[lostfan]

In the simplest of senses, yes. They do way worse than kids of higher socioeconomic backgrounds. Are their exceptions? Sure. But statistically speaking, it is a truism.

When you break it down to the lowest level, yeah, that's true

[lostfan]

I don't really like how in the media and in discussions everybody just assumes this is about teachers wanting more money. Typical attitude towards striking workers any time, though.

[Jake]

you say those as if they are bad. Maybe bad for inner city Chicago, but not in other areas. Those numbers look similar to the pay scale in the town I grew up in.

 

I'm just saying what it is, I was surprised CPS made so much more.

 

I don't really like how in the media and in discussions everybody just assumes this is about teachers wanting more money. Typical attitude towards striking workers any time, though.

 

That attitude in general will hold back progress in getting good compensation for workers. At least elucidate the facts like most of us are trying to in this thread. Sometimes the workers won't be in the right, sometimes they will. Sometimes it will be a matter of philosophical differences.

[MurcieOne]

That attitude in general will hold back progress in getting good compensation for workers. At least elucidate the facts like most of us are trying to in this thread. Sometimes the workers won't be in the right, sometimes they will. Sometimes it will be a matter of philosophical differences.

 

 

I agree with you. I don't want to get into the politics of everything, but the disparity of wealth in this country is an issue. However, this particular group of organized labor doesn't warrant my sympathies. Everyone always wants more money, but I think that the statistics show that CPS teachers are paid adequately for their services. They are going to get 4% raises. Even if they concede on the principals authority to strike issue, they still have better job security than 95% of the labor force.

 

I'm not against education, I'm not against teachers, but I can't support this particular strike.

[lostfan]

I'm just saying what it is, I was surprised CPS made so much more.

 

 

 

That attitude in general will hold back progress in getting good compensation for workers. At least elucidate the facts like most of us are trying to in this thread. Sometimes the workers won't be in the right, sometimes they will. Sometimes it will be a matter of philosophical differences.

It's already been mentioned in this thread, I didn't think I really had to repeat it. They don't have issue with the salary, they already agreed to that. They have an issue with their evaluation being tied to student performance which becomes an issue in lower-income communities. They are also upset about the lack of even funding, counselors, class size, etc.

[Balta1701]

I agree with you. I don't want to get into the politics of everything, but the disparity of wealth in this country is an issue. However, this particular group of organized labor doesn't warrant my sympathies. Everyone always wants more money, but I think that the statistics show that CPS teachers are paid adequately for their services. They are going to get 4% raises. Even if they concede on the principals authority to strike issue, they still have better job security than 95% of the labor force.

 

I'm not against education, I'm not against teachers, but I can't support this particular strike.

According to press report that I posted earlier in this thread from ABC I think, the actual city offer currently sits at 3% this year then 2% increases the next 2 years. If that's wrong I haven't been shown a clear proposal saying its wrong so far.

[Cerbaho-WG]

If people decided to up and go on strike in most jobs, they'd get fired and replaced with someone willing to put up with the crap. CPS teachers apparently don't have to worry about that.

 

This post is indicative of how clueless some people are. Instead of going, "Wow, I wish I had the right to organize so I could have decent pay" you're basically saying that everyone should be pathetic and miserable like you.

 

I also love how that ChicagoNow post compares the average teacher salary with the median Chicagoan's income. If you don't see the problem in that comparison, you probably shouldn't be in this thread at all.

[Cerbaho-WG]

The average CPS teacher, who has about 14 years of experience, gets a total compensation equal to about $74,798/year or $34.50/hour. The average percentage of CPS students who meet or exceed state standards is 66%. The percentage of CPS 11th graders who meet college readiness benchmarks is 21% in Reading, 19% in Math, 11% in Science and 38% in English.

 

The average Chicagoan works a comparable schedule to a CPS teacher, yet earns half as much in total compensation, 33 fewer days off, higher health care costs for lower quality health benefits and either a 401(k) that they contribute heavily into or no retirement package at all.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/windy-city-young...r-compensation/

 

But keep b****ing and spreading the myth, teachers!

 

Do you understand the difference between a mean (average) and a median?

 

[Cerbaho-WG]

I hate to post this again, but this is just too hilarious:

 

"The median household income for a Chicagoan is $38,625 thus the average Chicagoan who works 240 days a year makes appx. $19/hour."

 

Hahahahahaha. f***ing awesome.

[StrangeSox]

Chicago Tonight had a couple of good segments on this tonight.

[StrangeSox]

But they can't post on Soxtalk!

Hey buddy keep missing the point of that one example everyone here could relate to!

[SoxFan1]

This post is indicative of how clueless some people are. Instead of going, "Wow, I wish I had the right to organize so I could have decent pay" you're basically saying that everyone should be pathetic and miserable like you.

 

I also love how that ChicagoNow post compares the average teacher salary with the median Chicagoan's income. If you don't see the problem in that comparison, you probably shouldn't be in this thread at all.

Dude, give me a break. $76,000 to work nine months out of the year. AND they're walking out on the kids they are supposedly fighting for.

[Rowand44]

I have nothing to contribute about the actual issue at hand but teachers really do b**** more than any other profession.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Dude, give me a break. $76,000 to work nine months out of the year. AND they're walking out on the kids they are supposedly fighting for.

 

That's the average salary, which indicates the teacher has worked 14 years.

 

Also, why didn't you bother trying to refute the second part of my post?

 

Lastly, I've been trying to find the 16% pay increase proposal from the City of Chicago and not a newspaper article. Anyone got it? Sorry, I really just can't find it. It's probably a moot point since it seems that the unions have agreed to it. Thanks.

[SoxFan1]

That's the average salary, which indicates the teacher has worked 14 years.

 

Also, why didn't you bother trying to refute the second part of my post?

 

Lastly, I've been trying to find the 16% pay increase proposal from the City of Chicago and not a newspaper article. Anyone got it? Sorry, I really just can't find it. It's probably a moot point since it seems that the unions have agreed to it. Thanks.

I don't think your second point is worth arguing. That's not a stance you can sway someone on. In a world where companies are downsizing and people are taking paycuts, teachers, as always, are asking for more.

 

Why don't you both to refute the fact that they are walking out on their students?

[MurcieOne]

Lastly, I've been trying to find the 16% pay increase proposal from the City of Chicago and not a newspaper article. Anyone got it? Sorry, I really just can't find it. It's probably a moot point since it seems that the unions have agreed to it. Thanks.

 

I haven't been able to find that number, except for newspaper articles citing what CPS alleges to have offered. FWIW, The Tribune cites that same number in its editorial column that will be published tomorrow.

 

But yes, the dollars seem to been agreed upon.

[flippedoutpunk]

Alright now its getting ridiculous, on my way to class there were redshirts walking on to irving park trying to disrupt traffic while holding up their signs and banging on drums. Is this really how we're going to act now? Some professionals they are.

[IlliniKrush]

No football for CPS schools either. Ouch.

[greg775]

Alright now its getting ridiculous, on my way to class there were redshirts walking on to irving park trying to disrupt traffic while holding up their signs and banging on drums. Is this really how we're going to act now? Some professionals they are.

 

that'll get them arrested. idiots.

[EvilMonkey]

that'll get them arrested. idiots.

No it won't, because one Union will support the other.