CTU is Going on Strike

[Jake]

What I don't understand is why you guys don't all become teachers...

 

awesome pay, awesome benefits and pension, EASY work schedule, EASY nature of work

 

why don't you do it???

[Soxbadger]

What I don't understand is why you guys don't all become teachers...

 

awesome pay, awesome benefits and pension, EASY work schedule, EASY nature of work

 

why don't you do it???

 

No available jobs. Go to a teacher fair, literally thousands of people in line hoping for one of these jobs.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, so they spend that time in the classroom, and at most spend just over 1900 hours working a year.

 

An average work week for the average person is 40 hours, though mine's more like 48. There are 52 weeks in a year.

 

That's 2,080 hours, on the absolute lowest end. I don't get paid overtime when I stay past 5pm, I do it because I need to get work done.

 

Boo f***ing hoo teachers, you almost sometimes, but not really, work somewhat close to what other people do with more benefits, more vacation time. God, teachers suck.

 

Teachers average about 19 hours a year less than your typical full-time employee. Average employees don't work 2080 hours a year because they get holidays and vacations. The quote I pulled even went over that!

 

 

[iamshack]

What I don't understand is why you guys don't all become teachers...

 

awesome pay, awesome benefits and pension, EASY work schedule, EASY nature of work

 

why don't you do it???

Because I am greedy and hate children.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Teachers average about 19 hours a year less than your typical full-time employee.

 

If you trust the self-reported out-of-school hours, which I doubt most people in here do.

[StrangeSox]

If you trust the self-reported out-of-school hours, which I doubt most people in here do.

 

The Labor Department survey relied on self-reported hours for everyone.

[Soxbadger]

Teachers average about 19 hours a year less than your typical full-time employee. Average employees don't work 2080 hours a year because they get holidays and vacations. The quote I pulled even went over that!

 

Do you have the source? WSJ didnt link it, and I cant seem to find a comparable study. I keep finding work hours etc, but no luck.

 

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat23.htm

 

That link shows that every full time industry averages over 40 hours a week when you include outside of the office.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Steve9347]

Teachers want more for doing less, and it's been that way for years. They do this all while perpetuating the ideas that they are underpaid and they are doing something noble. Seeing as how I have a lot of family who are teachers, I see a lot of bulls***. One of the most ridiculous things I've read is this facebook status they all share once a month or so.

 

It goes something like "while you are home tonight, teachers everywhere are working late to make sure your child gets an education."

 

Everytime I read it I want to punch the PC screen. They act like they don't get paid! They act like it's not a job, like they are public servants who don't get more time off than 90% of professions out there.

 

Nothing can convince me otherwise. My mother spends 3 months doing jack s***, and then goes back to the class room and has to go in on a Saturday and you'd think the world ended. This is while my dad's on the like 35th consecutive year of rocking 60-80 hours per week.

 

They have no idea how stupid they sound, and they have no idea how much they should be resented.

[Steve9347]

What I don't understand is why you guys don't all become teachers...

 

awesome pay, awesome benefits and pension, EASY work schedule, EASY nature of work

 

why don't you do it???

I would have f***ing done it if I hadn't been brainwashed by teachers my entire life who did nothing but b**** about how s***ty their job is while getting more pay and benefits and f***ing pension than is remotely reasonable.

[StrangeSox]

Many of these teachers that have been teaching for years and years already have their preparation complete. There is a certain amount of foundation work that is done and then that is used over and over and over. There isn't a lot of new dynamic analysis being done of the Canterbury Tales or The Scarlet Letter every year.

 

Algebra and Geometry don't really change after you have prepared to teach it for a year or two.

 

When standards or curriculum change, you have to re-plan. But that doesn't really effect the Labor Department's survey that found the average hours to be very, very close to people who work year-round. There's still grading and planning revisions to be made, even if you're 20 years in.

 

I get what you're saying here, I really do...my stepfather teaches college courses and I recognize he puts in plenty of time outside of the actual teaching. But we all do...especially with the advent of company laptops and cell phones...I'm answering emails and dealing with work issues around the clock.

 

I didn't post that article to show how much harder teachers have it. I posted it to deflate the argument that teachers should be paid less because they don't work as much, because it turns out that, yeah, they do.

 

I also understand the desire to not be rated as a teacher by the test scores of low-income students. That is a very challenging benchmark to be rated. However, there has to be some way to hold them accountable, and their performance is a very big part of that. How else can we rate them if not by the performance of their students?

 

You can rate them at least partially on student performance, but only if your metrics are good. Like you said, it's something that's very difficult to measure. The new standards rate teachers based on knowledge improvement, but is that being accurately measured? Is that the best thing to measure? It's a really tough challenge.

 

[StrangeSox]

Teachers want more for doing less, and it's been that way for years.

 

Teachers want more for working more hours and COL to cover rising living costs.

 

Anyway, doesn't everyone want more for less? Isn't that the way market forces are supposed to work, maximum benefit for minimum cost?

 

They act like it's not a job, like they are public servants who don't get more time off than 90% of professions out there.

 

According to the labor department survey, they work 99%+ of what other professions average.

Edited September 11, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

I didn't post that article to show how much harder teachers have it. I posted it to deflate the argument that teachers should be paid less because they don't work as much, because it turns out that, yeah, they do.

 

Im still not sure you are actually responding to the arguments.

 

CPS teachers are being paid MORE than the regular people who pay for their salary. The question is why should teachers, who have more benefits than a regular common joe, get MORE money, when the economy is not doing well and the city is screwed for money.

 

That is the question, and I have yet to see a real answer.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Teachers want more for working more hours and COL to cover rising living costs.

 

Anyway, doesn't everyone want more for less? Isn't that the way market forces are supposed to work, maximum benefit for minimum cost?

 

 

Market forces are supposed to allow the market to correct. So when you have worker A who wants $100,000 and worker B who wants $10,000, the market would say I should be able to hire worker B, especially if worker A is not 10x more productive. Yet the union does not allow this.

 

So if we really want to go down the road of market forces, shouldnt we destroy the union because they artificially control the market?

 

(I dont want to destroy unions, id just be careful arguing market forces when supporting unions.)

 

(Edit)

 

Unions are basically legal collusion or a cartel. Market forces do not really want that.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

Can we get a comparison of CPS salary averages to college-educated salary averages? That's more apples-to-apples.

[Steve9347]

I didn't post that article to show how much harder teachers have it. I posted it to deflate the argument that teachers should be paid less because they don't work as much, because it turns out that, yeah, they do.

Who here has said they should be paid less? The entire f***ing thread is about how ridiculous CPS teachers are for going on strike, when they are compensated as well as other professions with better benefits. They, at most, work almost as much as other people! ZOMG STRIKE!

[Steve9347]

Can we get a comparison of CPS salary averages to college-educated salary averages? That's more apples-to-apples.

Who THE F*CK cares?

 

The average teacher salary is $71,236 in the Chicago Public School district, which includes elementary schools and high schools, according to the Illinois Interactive Report Card of Northern Illinois University. The average in the state is $64,978.

 

The average police officer in Chicago is paid $40,000. Fireman? $41,000. Cry me a f***ing river, teachers. Your life must suck to never be able to be fired and to be able to take worthless classes to force a pay raise.

[Steve9347]

Can we get a comparison of CPS salary averages to college-educated salary averages? That's more apples-to-apples.

The average CPS salary is $71,236. The average person with a Master's Degree in Chicago makes $66,000.

 

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search...l-Chicago%2C+IL

 

That's assuming most teachers have a Master's Degree, obviously.

[mr_genius]

If you trust the self-reported out-of-school hours, which I doubt most people in here do.

 

^^^

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Can we get a comparison of CPS salary averages to college-educated salary averages? That's more apples-to-apples.

 

Here is a good one:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/pf/college...aries/index.htm

 

Average starting salary for all graduates $41k

 

Average starting salary for teachers $37k

 

As I said, teacher fairs are crammed to capacity. Equal pay, superior benefits and job guarantee. You just cant beat it.

[Jake]

But why is hours worked as teacher = hours worked as everything else?

 

It's just not fair to such different professions to compare hours like the work intensity is the same or somehow comparable in the same timeframe. They are different. Imagine dealing with children...of any age, really. For most of us, we'd go on strike after an hour or two on the job with some of these little assholes.

 

And there are aspects of other jobs that suck, but there isn't an empirical way to compare them and it is thoroughly unconvincing to myself and many others when you throw work hours, median income, and s*** like that at the "teacher compensation" argument.

[StrangeSox]

Do you have the source? WSJ didnt link it, and I cant seem to find a comparable study. I keep finding work hours etc, but no luck.

 

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat23.htm

 

That link shows that every full time industry averages over 40 hours a week when you include outside of the office.

 

It's buried in OECD data, trying to find

 

edit: here, I'm pretty sure

 

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/eag_hig...eType=text/html

Edited September 11, 2012 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

man steve you sure are melting down in this thread

[CrimsonWeltall]

The Labor Department survey relied on self-reported hours for everyone.

 

Maybe they shouldn't do that, because the idea that the average American teacher works 11 hours per work day is ridiculous.

 

Think of every lazy teacher who does the minimum or uses the same lesson plan year after year putting in like 6 hours a day of legit work. There's a teacher putting in 16 hours a day for every one of those? That's like 8am to 2am every day!

[Jake]

Here is a good one:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/pf/college...aries/index.htm

 

Average starting salary for all graduates $41k

 

Average starting salary for teachers $37k

 

As I said, teacher fairs are crammed to capacity. Equal pay, superior benefits and job guarantee. You just cant beat it.

 

Well, you can do what some states are doing -- require a master's degree. This rules out a lot of folks. Whether that is a good thing or not is up to you to decide. I'm studying to teach in college and I can say the 6 years post-grad helps to narrow the field significantly.

[Steve9347]

man steve you sure are melting down in this thread

By providing facts and figures with a little bit of anecdotal background?