GT: Sox vs. Tigers...The Final Countdown Continues

[kitekrazy]

One thing's for sure, if Floyd gets rocked early...we go to Axelrod and possibly Humber if it's a COMPLETE ROUT of 6+ runs or more down, but we definitely can't sacrifice 5-6-7 relievers coming into Thursday in a game where Sale might not get past 5 or 6.

 

The difference between yesterday and today is like having a whore for a girlfriend. When you think your loved, the next day she's with someone else.

 

 

I don't want to see Jake Peavy anymore. I'm sure the ace will come out facing Cleveland. Too many of the more experienced veterans on this team lay down in big games.

I imagine PK will bunt tomorrow or even a Dunn PH sacrifice bunt.

[caulfield12]

The hell with that.

 

I'd put Liriano in and make him pitch

 

 

Can we even be sure after two times on the DL that Gavin can even stay healthy for one game or one week?

 

Or that Sale won't require additional rest after Thursday?

[caulfield12]

The difference between yesterday and today is like having a whore for a girlfriend. When you think your loved, the next day she's with someone else.

 

 

I don't want to see Jake Peavy anymore. I'm sure the ace will come out facing Cleveland. Too many of the more experienced veterans on this team lay down in big games.

I imagine PK will bunt tomorrow or even a Dunn PH sacrifice bunt.

 

The odds were 27% with one run in, first and second, no outs...that we'd score 3 or more runs.

 

Didn't even come close. The failed bunt was THE moment of the game, and then getting behind in the count and K'ing.

 

3 run homer there and the Tigers are done.

 

Ventura was playing for the tie, or basically, NOT to lose. In that situation, with the Tigers' reeling, you knock them out and don't give them a chance to recover.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2012 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Ventura was playing for the tie, or basically, NOT to lose.

 

Kinda like when he asked De Aza to squeeze on Sunday. All season, he was doing a good job of not using the bunt too much. However, it seems the pressure of the pennant race has caused him to go overboard with the bunt.

[Buehrle>Wood]

The bunt also sucked the air out of the stadium

[Jake]

That was a bunt situation and Youk isn't going to try to do it unless he thinks he can. YOUK failed, not the manager. I will add that the umpire didn't do us any favors in that AB either. Bunting is very easy to do and I'm sure Youk said he was able to. Unfortunately he tried to bunt a difficult pitch to bunt and then took a strike. That was Youk's fault. He hasn't been hitting that well and we needed to get out of the double play and get two men in scoring position.

 

Not terribly happy with the Liriano decision since it worked so poorly, but I sure didn't expect it to be so bad. I thought his great stuff might work for him in such a short term situation, but it did not. He got a fairly quick hook.

 

We just got beat today, fair and square. Not much our manager could do about it. Fister was lights out and we were lucky to get a couple runs off of him. Peavy pitched well but made the same two mistakes Fister did.

[greg775]

The whole problem with this game was bunting with Youkilis.

 

You take the bat out of an aggressive fastball hitter's hands and put him on the defensive when we should have been playing for the lead, not the tie, there.

 

Go for the jugular.

 

With all the struggles with RISP over the last two weeks, I'd rather swing away with 3 at-bats by YOUK, Wise and Konerko than play small ball to try to extend the game, because the Tigers still have the overall bullpen advantage.

 

Hit a homer that inning and the entire series and season shifts back to the White Sox.

 

Now it's "uh-oh," Scherzer and Verlander are coming again, we're doomed, etc.

 

If we want to go to the playoffs this season, we're going to need to prove we belong by winning one of these 2.

 

Otherwise, we'll be 1-10 in our last 11 games played against DET. That's beyond pathetic, that's beyond anything we ever managed to do (negatively) against the Twins even.

 

I absolutely hate these games where Robin has to use 4-5 pitchers. When he starts mixing and matching early it usually spells doom. When our starters don't go deep, we suck. When we fail to hit home runs, we suck. Tonight we blasted 2, but I guess it's against the Sox law to ever hit HRs with men on base. Solo homers don't do a lot of damage.

Fact is we still can't beat Detroit and one out of four in this home series will be baby steps, but still ridiculous. I mean, tomorrow is gonna be a five-inning outing by Floyd at best cause of his rust so we're f***ed again. Then Verlander figures to pitch a shutout in a big game and we prolly lose 2-0. We'll still be tied for the lead when Detroit leaves town, though. So it'll be back to the grind hoping others can beat Detroit like they've been doing. Remember it's only the Sox that can't beat this lousy Detroit team.

[fathom]

That was a bunt situation and Youk isn't going to try to do it unless he thinks he can. YOUK failed, not the manager. I will add that the umpire didn't do us any favors in that AB either. Bunting is very easy to do and I'm sure Youk said he was able to. Unfortunately he tried to bunt a difficult pitch to bunt and then took a strike. That was Youk's fault. He hasn't been hitting that well and we needed to get out of the double play and get two men in scoring position.

 

You don't ask your players to do something that they're not good/comfortable at. And why is it a bunt situation? You still need at least one hit to score 2 runs in that situation even if the sac bunt is successful. With how awful the Sox have been hitting with RISP lately, you're better off hoping for the 3 run homer (against a pitcher that gives up just about as many home runs of late as singles).

[greg775]

That was a bunt situation and Youk isn't going to try to do it unless he thinks he can. YOUK failed, not the manager. I will add that the umpire didn't do us any favors in that AB either. Bunting is very easy to do and I'm sure Youk said he was able to. Unfortunately he tried to bunt a difficult pitch to bunt and then took a strike. That was Youk's fault. He hasn't been hitting that well and we needed to get out of the double play and get two men in scoring position.

 

Not terribly happy with the Liriano decision since it worked so poorly, but I sure didn't expect it to be so bad. I thought his great stuff might work for him in such a short term situation, but it did not. He got a fairly quick hook.

 

We just got beat today, fair and square. Not much our manager could do about it. Fister was lights out and we were lucky to get a couple runs off of him. Peavy pitched well but made the same two mistakes Fister did.

 

It definitely was a bunt situation going by baseball's "book." Go for the tie at home and win on the road. But when the guy can't bunt, usually the book gets ripped apart. Youk can't bunt as evidenced by his never having laid down a sac bunt.

Edited September 12, 2012 by greg775

[kitekrazy]

The whole problem with this game was bunting with Youkilis.

 

You take the bat out of an aggressive fastball hitter's hands and put him on the defensive when we should have been playing for the lead, not the tie, there.

 

Go for the jugular.

 

With all the struggles with RISP over the last two weeks, I'd rather swing away with 3 at-bats by YOUK, Wise and Konerko than play small ball to try to extend the game, because the Tigers still have the overall bullpen advantage.

 

Hit a homer that inning and the entire series and season shifts back to the White Sox.

 

Now it's "uh-oh," Scherzer and Verlander are coming again, we're doomed, etc.

 

If we want to go to the playoffs this season, we're going to need to prove we belong by winning one of these 2.

Otherwise, we'll be 1-10 in our last 11 games played against DET. That's beyond pathetic, that's beyond anything we ever managed to do (negatively) against the Twins even.

 

Getting b**** slapped by the division winning rival has been the footprint of the KW regime. There's gotta be some super computer running super sabre metrics to explain the mental midget breakdowns. It's obvious Peavy is a mental midget since his sample size has increased that he's 0 for big games. Then there's Youk who came from a team that choked last season. Kenny has also collected former Indians, Royals that only hurt the Sox and hurt the Sox more by wearing the uniform.

 

Drawing 30,000 tells you that more Sox fans believe history will repeat itself in choking.

 

The annoying part is getting owned by the division rival. That is the constant and Manuel, Ozzie and now Robin can't over come that.

 

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Kinda like when he asked De Aza to squeeze on Sunday. All season, he was doing a good job of not using the bunt too much. However, it seems the pressure of the pennant race has caused him to go overboard with the bunt.

 

The pen is so inconsistent that playing for a tie is playing to lose.

 

[fathom]

The pen is so inconsistent that playing for a tie is playing to lose.

 

Couldn't agree more

[Jake]

My belief is that Youk may very well be able to bunt. You don't need to bunt often to be able to bunt effectively. I think Youk and Robin both believed that he could bunt. Youk's pitch selection cost him a chance to prove either way. If his pitch selection on bunts against him was that bad, why do you think he'd have hit successfully?

[Jake]

My belief is that Youk may very well be able to bunt. You don't need to bunt often to be able to bunt effectively. I think Youk and Robin both believed that he could bunt. Youk's pitch selection cost him a chance to prove either way. If his pitch selection on bunts against him was that bad, why do you think he'd have hit successfully?

[caulfield12]

How many sacrifice bunts has YOUK laid down in his entire career, specifically, the last 5 years?

[kitekrazy]

My belief is that Youk may very well be able to bunt. You don't need to bunt often to be able to bunt effectively. I think Youk and Robin both believed that he could bunt. Youk's pitch selection cost him a chance to prove either way. If his pitch selection on bunts against him was that bad, why do you think he'd have hit successfully?

 

Maybe it's time to move him down the order.

 

[Rowand44]

It definitely was a bunt situation going by baseball's "book." Go for the tie at home and win on the road. But when the guy can't bunt, usually the book gets ripped apart. Youk can't bunt as evidenced by his never having laid down a sac bunt.

I'm tired of this baseball "book." I had people at the game tonight tell me that it was "baseball 101" to bunt with with Youlk in that situation. This "book" might have flew in the 40's but we all have these numbers to tell us how wrong this god damn fake book is. And that's not even counting the fact that we're having god damn Youk bunt. I haven't had much bad to say about Robin this year but there's no way to defend that bunt, an absolute horrid decision and there's no arguing that.

 

That being said Leyland did the same bulls*** bunting earlier when you knew Miggy was going to get walked.

 

Both managers embarrassed themselves tonight.

[kitekrazy]

I'm tired of this baseball "book." I had people at the game tonight tell me that it was "baseball 101" to bunt with with Youlk in that situation. This "book" might have flew in the 40's but we all have these numbers to tell us how wrong this god damn fake book is. And that's not even counting the fact that we're having god damn Youk bunt. I haven't had much bad to say about Robin this year but there's no way to defend that bunt, an absolute horrid decision and there's no arguing that.

 

That being said Leyland did the same bulls*** bunting earlier when you knew Miggy was going to get walked.

 

Both managers embarrassed themselves tonight.

 

Robin one upped him by using Liriano.

 

[BigSqwert]

Not sure why people are complaining about Peavy's performance. 3 runs against this Tigers offense is pretty damn good. His performance tonight doesn't rank in the top 10 list of things to complain about tonight.

[IlliniKrush]

It definitely was a bunt situation going by baseball's "book." Go for the tie at home and win on the road. But when the guy can't bunt, usually the book gets ripped apart. Youk can't bunt as evidenced by his never having laid down a sac bunt.

This stupid notion needs to go away forever, in every sport.

 

You go for the win, home, road, day, night, doesn't f***ing matter. You do the things you need to do to win the game. You shouldn't change a damn thing. Especially in a sport where your offense is completely independent of the other team's offense. You need to score X runs, you figure out the way to do it in that inning or innings. It makes zero difference where the game is played.

[iamshack]

Not sure why people are complaining about Peavy's performance. 3 runs against this Tigers offense is pretty damn good. His performance tonight doesn't rank in the top 10 list of things to complain about tonight.

I agree...Peavy gave up a homer to one of the best hitters in all of baseball history, and to Austin Jackson, who's having a pretty nice run against every one of our pitchers this year. It happens.

 

What doesn't need to happen is putting players in position to do things they can't, or putting them in situations where they are not likely to succeed. He did that twice tonight, in huge, high-leverage situations, while clearly better options were available to him.

 

That to me is far more inexcusable than Jake giving up a couple home runs.

[greg775]

I'm tired of this baseball "book." I had people at the game tonight tell me that it was "baseball 101" to bunt with with Youlk in that situation. This "book" might have flew in the 40's but we all have these numbers to tell us how wrong this god damn fake book is. And that's not even counting the fact that we're having god damn Youk bunt. I haven't had much bad to say about Robin this year but there's no way to defend that bunt, an absolute horrid decision and there's no arguing that.

 

That being said Leyland did the same bulls*** bunting earlier when you knew Miggy was going to get walked.

 

Both managers embarrassed themselves tonight.

Amen, brother.Great post.

 

Not sure why people are complaining about Peavy's performance. 3 runs against this Tigers offense is pretty damn good. His performance tonight doesn't rank in the top 10 list of things to complain about tonight.

Not.Enough.Innings. He's got to go deeper in games cause when Robin starts mixing and matching with too many relievers, it doesn't end well normally. We need our starters to do what Detroit's did to us AGAIN tonight.