Banning Father Daughter dances in school

[Jenksismyhero]

This discussion did not "start" there, and I will note that, hey, it was because they had a severe nut allergy!

 

The article also seems to indicate that at least one current student still has a nut allergy: The article does not indicate that they've actively decided to keep a blanket ban in place regardless of student needs. If so, that would be unreasonable, but that is not what anyone in this thread was discussing until you brought it up.

 

I'd like to discuss why you think a specific ban to protect a specific student is unacceptable, not some random case I've never heard of until you just linked it or nonsense schools=children analogies.

 

And yes it did start there. Go back and read page 2. It took several pages for the "severe" component to enter the argument, which was all hypothetical mind you until I just posted that story.

[StrangeSox]

Because I think it's ludicrous to make 100 kids change for the sake of 1. If this kid has that much of a problem, remove him from the lunch room. That's a pretty big inconvenience when, again, there are easier alternatives.

 

Ostracizing and othering a child is a pretty big inconvenience. Asking parents to come up with alternatives to PB&J is not.

[StrangeSox]

And yes it did start there. Go back and read page 2. It took several pages for the "severe" component to enter the argument, which was all hypothetical mind you until I just posted that story.

 

It did? Can you send me a link, because I can't find anything about that story on Page 2.

 

I think people started discussing in good-faith and assumed that administrators were actually implementing these policies to address real, legitimate concerns as they have in the past, not assuming that it was over mild, non-threatening allergies.

[Balta1701]

Ostracizing and othering a child is a pretty big inconvenience. Asking parents to come up with alternatives to PB&J is not.

I'm picturing the poor kid crying alone because every time food comes out he has to go into isolation. It makes me sad.

[Jenksismyhero]

Sorry, page 1 was the first mention:

 

I just took my daughter to a father/daughter dance last year. She had a great time. I didn't really pay attention but I'm sure if any of the girls came with someone other than their father they weren't denied entrance.

 

This thinking by parents of "If my kid can't have it then why should anyone's kid" is getting ridiculous. They act like it's some horrible thing for their kid to learn that they may be different than everyone else and not everyone gets treated exactly the same.

 

This is just as bad as schools banning peanut butter from lunchrooms because one kid is allergic to it rather than separating out the single kid.

 

I hate to see when these kids grow up and realize that the rest of the world doesn't always conform to them and they have to deal with it.

 

I think his point was that instead of giving kids with nut allergies something different than peanut butter, schools have decided to just not give peanut butter to anyone so that the kids with the allergy don't feel left out or different.

 

^^^ That's exactly what I meant.

 

Actually, at my daughter's school that's exactly what they do. She told me that at least one kid has to sit in a completely separate lunchroom.

 

Surprisingly, the kid's parents haven't complained to the school that they need to completely ban peanut butter and all other products that may contains nuts. Instead they let their kid know that he's a little different than all the other kids so he has to do things a different way and it's OK.

 

YOU were the first to bring up “yeah but some kids have severe reactions.”

 

That's not why they institute peanut butter bans. Even the residue can cause severe reactions for some people. Have you ever been on a flight when they're prepping it for someone with peanut allergies? The wipe down several rows around the seat that person is going to be sitting in because even a tiny amount can be deadly.

 

[StrangeSox]

Back on the long-forgotten original topic of this thread, the Rhode Island (it was there, not NY) ACLU has issued this statement:

 

http://www.riaclu.org/20120918.htm

 

The following statement was issued today by the Rhode Island ACLU in response to the Cranston sex discrimination controversy. The issue arose when a local parent-teacher organization, with initial support from the school, organized a “father-daughter dance” for girls attending the school, and a “mother-son” outing to a Pawtucket Red Sox baseball game for the boys:

 

 

"The controversy that has suddenly arisen in a political campaign over father-daughter dances in Cranston is old news – the matter was amicably resolved with school officials over four months ago. And it was resolved for a simple reason: the school district recognized that in the 21st Century, public schools have no business fostering the notion that girls prefer to go to formal dances while boys prefer baseball games. This type of gender stereotyping only perpetuates outdated notions of 'girl' and 'boy' activities and is contrary to federal law.

 

"PTOs remain free to hold family dances and other events, but the time has long since passed for public school resources to encourage stereotyping from the days of Ozzie and Harriet. Not every girl today is interested in growing up to be Cinderella – not even in Cranston. In fact, one of them might make a great major league baseball player someday.

 

"We commend the school district for its resolution of the matter, and are sorry to see some people turning it into a political football – a game that they may think only boys should be interested in."

[southsider2k5]

Translation: The school system knuckled under to the pressure. You had better too if you know what is good for you.

[StrangeSox]

Sorry, page 1 was the first mention:

 

Page 1 did not mention that story, nor did it give any details or explanations for why nuts were banned in those schools. When you linked a story and told me "this is where it started," that story was also over severe nut allergies.

 

YOU were the first to bring up “yeah but some kids have severe reactions.”

 

Right, because that's why they institute these bans in every case I've ever heard of (admittedly only a few). Because to do otherwise would likely be an overreach. I brought it up to point out the reality of why those policies are put in place because it didn't seem like you were aware, or it was being ignored.

[Jenksismyhero]

Ostracizing and othering a child is a pretty big inconvenience. Asking parents to come up with alternatives to PB&J is not.

 

Welcome to f***ing life man! Do you think that kid won't have to deal with that for the rest of his life? Is he going to live his life with a note that says "please ban all products from entering the premises prior to my arrival. Thanks!?" I agree with you eating in isolation would be cruel, but there's no reason at all why teachers couldn't corner him/her off with his friends and just make sure that whatever everyone else is eating is ok and/or not getting near him/her.

[StrangeSox]

Translation: The school system knuckled under to the pressure. You had better too if you know what is good for you.

 

Otherwise the local ACLU branch might file a gender-discrimination lawsuit against you?

[Jenksismyhero]

Page 1 did not mention that story, nor did it give any details or explanations for why nuts were banned in those schools. When you linked a story and told me "this is where it started," that story was also over severe nut allergies.

 

 

Right, because that's why they institute these bans in every case I've ever heard of (admittedly only a few). Because to do otherwise would likely be an overreach. I brought it up to point out the reality of why those policies are put in place because it didn't seem like you were aware, or it was being ignored.

 

Go reread what I wrote. I'm the one that linked the story. This started off as a general allergy story, you threw in the severe component, it was argued and discussed, and then i just posted a link.

 

Edit: by "that's where this started" i mean from the article it indicates a national debate that started because of it (independent from this thread)

Edited September 21, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

Welcome to f***ing life man! Do you think that kid won't have to deal with that for the rest of his life? Is he going to live his life with a note that says "please ban all products from entering the premises prior to my arrival. Thanks!?"

 

"Welcome to f***ing life man!" cuts both ways. You can't endanger the life of another student by bringing peanut butter, boo-f***ing-hoo. Go eat a salad.

 

Yes, they'll face that danger for the rest of their life, but an adult or even a teenager is much more capable of taking the necessary precautions themselves than a young child is.

 

I agree with you eating in isolation would be cruel, but there's no reason at all why teachers couldn't corner him/her off with his friends and just make sure that whatever everyone else is eating is ok and/or not getting near him/her.

 

Maybe you don't know the specific situation in each and every school and how they organize lunches and snacks. Perhaps it would be best to leave it up to the individual school administrators' discretion to implement the best policies in his or her school on a case-by-case basis. In fact, some schools do implement the policy you recommend, but that may not be practical everywhere.

[StrangeSox]

Go reread what I wrote. I'm the one that linked the story. This started off as a general allergy story, you threw in the severe component, it was argued and discussed, and then i just posted a link.

 

Edit: by "that's where this started" i mean from the article it indicates a national debate that started because of it (independent from this thread)

 

I "threw in" the severe component because that's where we see these policies actually implemented. That you keep pointing out that no one was talking about severe allergies before I brought it up only highlights that a critical component was missing from the discussion.

 

If you can find an example of this ban being instituted when there wasn't a specific need, i.e. an actual student at the school with a severe allergy, please, post it.

[Iwritecode]

Ostracizing and othering a child is a pretty big inconvenience. Asking parents to come up with alternatives to PB&J is not.

 

Yet I know of at least one school that choose the former rather than the latter and no lawsuits were filed and it didn't become a major story. The kid dealt with it just fine. He was even one of the "severe" cases that couldn't be in the same room as others with peanut butter.

 

That's the original point I was trying to make. We are so worried about teaching kids that everyone is equal and nobody should ever be treated differently that we come up with some pretty odd rules.

 

Kids aren't really as fragile as some people think they are.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Iwritecode

[StrangeSox]

I don't necessarily have a problem with an individual administrator making that choice. I would not be happy with that solution if it were my child, but I would work with the school to come up with the best solution.

[Jenksismyhero]

"Welcome to f***ing life man!" cuts both ways. You can't endanger the life of another student by bringing peanut butter, boo-f***ing-hoo. Go eat a salad.

 

Yes, they'll face that danger for the rest of their life, but an adult or even a teenager is much more capable of taking the necessary precautions themselves than a young child is.

 

 

 

Maybe you don't know the specific situation in each and every school and how they organize lunches and snacks. Perhaps it would be best to leave it up to the individual school administrators' discretion to implement the best policies in his or her school on a case-by-case basis. In fact, some schools do implement the policy you recommend, but that may not be practical everywhere.

 

What is more reasonable? Causing a whole bunch of families, hundreds perhaps, to change or a handful? Seriously, wtf is the big deal here?

[Iwritecode]

I don't necessarily have a problem with an individual administrator making that choice. I would not be happy with that solution if it were my child, but I would work with the school to come up with the best solution.

 

 

Why exactly?

[StrangeSox]

Why exactly?

 

I would be concerned about the aforementioned ostracization and othering. "This child is different, he must go eat by himself" can be a pretty powerful message to send about a particular child.

[StrangeSox]

What is more reasonable? Causing a whole bunch of families, hundreds perhaps, to change or a handful? Seriously, wtf is the big deal here?

 

I don't know why peanut butter is so precious to some people. I don't know why it's such a big deal that they couldn't possibly accommodate it.

[Jenksismyhero]

Back on the long-forgotten original topic of this thread, the Rhode Island (it was there, not NY) ACLU has issued this statement:

 

http://www.riaclu.org/20120918.htm

 

Should health teachers be teaching male/female anatomy? After all, someone with female body organs isn't necessarily a female and some men with male body organs aren't male. They might be ostracized if they're being taught something like that.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't know why peanut butter is so precious to some people. I don't know why it's such a big deal that they couldn't possibly accommodate it.

 

It's not JUST peanut butter, it's anything containing nuts. No Paydays, no Snickers, no Nutter-Butter bars. I mean come on, you're killing the best snacks of my childhood here.

[StrangeSox]

Should health teachers be teaching male/female anatomy? After all, someone with female body organs isn't necessarily a female and some men with male body organs aren't male. They might be ostracized if they're being taught something like that.

 

This is nearly as terrible as your "schools=children" analogy, but not quite.

[StrangeSox]

It's not JUST peanut butter, it's anything containing nuts. No Paydays, no Snickers, no Nutter-Butter bars. I mean come on, you're killing the best snacks of my childhood here.

Boo-f***ing-hoo, welcome to life on earth! Will you be just as cool with your proposed "Deal with it" solution if your child is sent to a separate room by themselves for lunch every day for years?

 

Or is this all some misplaced nostalgia for lunchroom snacks??

[Iwritecode]

I would be concerned about the aforementioned ostracization and othering. "This child is different, he must go eat by himself" can be a pretty powerful message to send about a particular child.

 

If a child has an affliction that only affects 1% of the population it's OK to tell him he's different that most of his classmates because he actually is. He'll learn it eventually sooner or later.

 

Like I said, kids are pretty damn resilient and tend to figure out things on there own pretty well. It's when the adults get involved that things get all messed up.

 

I tell my kids that they are weirdos all the time and they enjoy it because they actually strive to be different. I have 3 girls but you wouldn't know it because they hate all typical "girl" things like Justin Beiber, Hanna Montana, frilly dresses and anything pink.

 

They'd rather watch Japanese anime and play Pokemon on their DS.

[StrangeSox]

If a child has an affliction that only affects 1% of the population it's OK to tell him he's different that most of his classmates because he actually is. He'll learn it eventually sooner or later.

 

Like I said, kids are pretty damn resilient and tend to figure out things on there own pretty well. It's when the adults get involved that things get all messed up.

 

Sure, the child is literally different from the norm. That sort of stuff can stick, though, and make you a target for years. Children can be absolutely terrible to each other for the dumbest reasons.

 

I tell my kids that they are weirdos all the time and they enjoy it because they actually strive to be different. I have 3 girls but you wouldn't know it because they hate all typical "girl" things like Justin Beiber, Hanna Montana, frilly dresses and anything pink.

 

They'd rather watch Japanese anime and play Pokemon on their DS.

 

smash gender norms