Shut down Sale until the playoffs?

[sin city sox fan]

Chris doesn't seem to have the "stuff" he had earlier in the season. He seems to be getting hit harder and not overpowering hitters like he's capable of doing. I'm afraid its the early signs of a dead arm.

 

If we are to win the Series this year, I think he's going to have to pitch on three days rest throughout the playoffs. I really think we should sit him for the final week and half to let his arm rest and liven up for the postseason ahead.

[Harry Chappas]

NO

[greg775]

Chris doesn't seem to have the "stuff" he had earlier in the season. He seems to be getting hit harder and not overpowering hitters like he's capable of doing. I'm afraid its the early signs of a dead arm.

 

If we are to win the Series this year, I think he's going to have to pitch on three days rest throughout the playoffs. I really think we should sit him for the final week and half to let his arm rest and liven up for the postseason ahead.

 

We needed his gutty outing tonight to stay in the playoff hunt. We can't afford to rest him. Maybe if we get in the playoffs his adrenaline will kick in. I hope the rest of the starters can suck it up and go 7 innings the rest of the way.

[The Ginger Kid]

He may not be the shutout guy he was earlier in the year but he can certainly go 7 and give up 3. That should give the Sox a chance to win.

[Jake]

He gave up the homer and a couple other hard hit balls, but there were an obscene amount of soft hits in this game. He was hitting 94 on a fairly regular basis. I'm not worried about his health. We've got a pennant to win.

[sunofgold]

He gave up the homer and a couple other hard hit balls, but there were an obscene amount of soft hits in this game. He was hitting 94 on a fairly regular basis. I'm not worried about his health. We've got a pennant to win.

Have to make playoffs first. He battled

Tonight for sure but still gave us a quality start.

[IlliniKrush]

Requests for new topics should have to be reviewed by a moderator or something.

 

Wow.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

NOT A CHANCE.

 

We need to GET to the playoffs before we MANAGE for the playoffs. MLB playoffs have a large amount of randomness to them. Get there, and then worry about Chris Sale.

[chw42]

Extra day of rest? Sure. Shut down? Not a chance and no f***ing way.

[cabiness42]

Extra day of rest? Sure. Shut down? Not a chance and no f***ing way.

 

Can't even afford an extra day of rest right now, because he needs to stay on schedule to pitch in Game 163 in Detroit.

[southsider2k5]

The time for rest is past. Unless we open up the lead and clinch early, you have to ride your horses for the last week and a half if at all possible.

[southsider2k5]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/white-sox-set...strasburg-.html

 

The anti-Strasburg pitched again Monday night. He threw seven innings and 118 pitches. His fastball topped out at 95.3 mph. His arm did not fall off, spontaneously combust, snap, crackle or pop.

 

Chris Sale is 17-7 for the White Sox this season with a 2.86 ERA, fifth among AL starters. (AP)Chris Sale survived the rigors of another start, his 28th, and of his 188th inning, and of the most pitches he has thrown in any game in his young career, and he left it with the same feeling that pervades all his starts these days: thankfulness.

 

"I'm a fortunate one," he said last week, and he meant it, because he hears stories from his teammate Addison Reed, an old college buddy of Stephen Strasburg. And those stories make him cringe.

 

They're pretty much what you'd expect: How Strasburg, the Washington Nationals phenom and heir to the best-pitcher-in-baseball title, cannot stand the team mothballing his right arm for the remainder of the season as the club tries to win a championship. The idea that Sale wouldn't have pitched Monday's must-win game against Cleveland – that he wouldn't have been the one to help snap the White Sox's five-game losing streak in a 5-3 come-from-behind victory – is inconceivable, bordering on criminal to someone whose arm feels right and cares not about the future when the present means so much.

 

"It'd be tough," Sale said. "Especially knowing I want to be out there. You always want to do your job. And I feel bad for other guys because in this game there are things out of your control."

 

How the White Sox have controlled Sale is in stark contrast to the Nationals shutting down Strasburg earlier in the month, at 159 1/3 innings, in his first full year back from Tommy John surgery. While Sale has not undergone major arm surgery, his transition from relief pitcher to starter makes him ripe for an innings limit – like the Chicago Cubs placed on reliever-turned-starter Jeff Samardzija, who threw 174 2/3 this year.

 

The White Sox don't buy it. Trainers throughout the industry consider them one of the best teams at keeping arms healthy; they're among the leaders in fewest disabled-list days from pitchers over the last half-decade. And when it came to Sale, they wanted to see how he was pitching and where the team was before making any sort of determination, a stark contrast to the Nationals' year-in-the-making shutdown of Strasburg.

 

"Why paint yourself in a corner if you've got no scientific stuff and nobody's got answers? Nobody does," White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper said. "We're going to take it upon ourselves to watch it on a daily basis. And we're going to make sure he stays healthy. That's the first goal for our pitchers."

 

Cooper did not consult doctors. He did not commission studies on pitchers like Sale. He did not provide a binder worth of evidence supporting the White Sox's decision to pitch Sale. Cooper, manager Robin Ventura and general manager Kenny Williams collaborated on what seemed like common sense to them: If they were going to make Sale a starter, they wanted to make him a starter who can pitch an entire season.

 

"We wanted him to get the full experience, get it out of the way," Cooper said. "Go start to finish. Pitch nine innings. All of those things. It's not novel. We knew it was going to be a challenge with his first year starting. I don't care who you are. I don't care how talented you are. It's tough. But I knew what we had. A quality guy."

 

The plan was simple: Listen to Sale's arm. If it's tired, give him a day or two off from throwing. Skip a bullpen. Limit him playing catch on the field. Sometimes don't even allow him to pick up a ball. And find him extra days of rest wherever possible.

 

Sale has thrown 188 2/3 innings this season. Stephen Strasburg threw 159 1/3. (Getty Images)Nearly half of Sale's starts came with five days, one beyond the normal for a five-man rotation. Four times the White Sox allowed him six or more days. When Sale's elbow flared up in early May, the team panicked and returned him to the bullpen. Sale lobbied Williams to reverse his decision. An MRI showed a clean elbow, and back he went into the rotation, where he has made the same number of starts as Strasburg but thrown 2,938 pitches to Strasburg's 2,607.

 

Sale rewarded the White Sox with a season certain to get Cy Young votes. Sale's 2.86 ERA is fifth among AL starters, behind David Price, Justin Verlander, Jered Weaver and Felix Hernandez, the sort of company any pitcher would love to keep. His 17-7 record and 185 strikeouts highlight the dynamism of stuff that he flings from a low three-quarters angle. At 6-foot-6, 180 pounds, Sale is the closest thing anyone has seen to Randy Johnson since the Big Unit's debut, and his fastball-slider combination does his predecessor justice.

 

It's no wonder, then, he's still pitching. With their Central lead eroding, with their offense sputtering, the White Sox need lockdown performances – not costs be damned necessarily, but with faith in Sale's arm that no arm is due.

 

"We're aware he's young," Ventura said. "He's making the transition from the bullpen. But I don't want to do anything that I feel would jeopardize his career."

 

The balance is tough. Ventura played through the advent of the pitch-count age, during which teams began monitoring pitchers with eagle eyes. Neither Strasburg nor Sale ever threw an absurd amount of pitches in one game, the sort of traumatic event on an arm that researchers believe is far likelier to injure it than regular throwing. The Strasburg shutdown threw the baseball establishment for a loop because Strasburg was healthy and was throwing well, and it felt like the machines had taken over.

 

"I don't care what they did," Cooper said.

 

And the White Sox acted like that. Cooper compared Sale to a gas tank, "and there were points I've run out," Sale admitted. At those points, both said, he replenished himself with additional rest. His stuff hasn't lagged much. While Sale's average fastball Monday of 91.9 mph was among his lowest this year, he still found 95 mph when he needed it. Sale said he's simply pitching a little differently right now, conserving his best stuff at the end of a long season, when plenty of pitchers' velocities dip.

 

"The organization deserves a hand for how they've handled him," White Sox starter Jake Peavy said. "They've done it with care. They've given him extra rest when he looks worn down. Chris Sale is 23 years old. I don't get what other teams are doing. If you're conditioned enough to do it, we got in the big leagues and threw 200 innings. It's just what you did.

 

"I understand you've got to protect your guys, but I think your condition, your work ethic will stand up. You're going to have arm issues whether you throw 100 innings or 200. If your arm breaks down, it was going to break down."

 

When he was 22, Peavy threw 194 2/3 innings. Sale is at 188 2/3, up from 71 last year, and if the White Sox need a Game 163, he's on tap to pitch and could pass 200 innings. It could be Game 1 of the division series, too, if the White Sox hold on to their one-game lead over Detroit. And as Strasburg watches his teammates take the ball in every one of their October games, Sale would have the responsibility of locking down the Rangers or Yankees or Orioles or A's or Angels.

 

As long as his arm lasts one more start at least.

 

"So far, so good," Sale said, and he knocked on his wooden locker. What he understands about the arm is simple: He understands nothing. Like Cooper said, people try to know, but they can't for certain. And so as Stephen Strasburg plays the part of teenager confined to the house for fear of what the big, bad world might do, the White Sox let their kid roam free, acknowledging the big, bad world might eat his arm alive. He might blow out, and they might regret the hell out of it, and second-guessers might play na-na-na-boo-boo. But there's a good chance at another outcome.

 

The White Sox might win with Chris Sale on the mound. And that's a risk they're more than willing to take.

[Reddy]

you guys are all crazy for throwing the OP under the bus. the nationals straight up shut down Strasburg for the season AND postseason. I don't think it's wild to suggest we do the same. Kill a kid's arm and risk the future of the team just because we "might" get to the 1st or second round of the playoffs? I dunno. I think it's at least worth discussing, not flaming the OP about.

[Eminor3rd]

NO

 

[LittleHurt05]

you guys are all crazy for throwing the OP under the bus. the nationals straight up shut down Strasburg for the season AND postseason. I don't think it's wild to suggest we do the same. Kill a kid's arm and risk the future of the team just because we "might" get to the 1st or second round of the playoffs? I dunno. I think it's at least worth discussing, not flaming the OP about.

 

The Nationals are making a dumb decision and are letting Scott Boras run their team. There is no guarantee that Strasburg stays injury-free and they also could have rested him during the season to limit his innings. And how do you know your team will even make the playoffs again? The Tigers were such large favorites and look where they are at. Funny stuff happens in baseball, go for it while you have a chance.

Edited September 25, 2012 by LittleHurt05

[EvilMonkey]

I would be more worried about teaching Sale how to field. While he doesn't get hit often, a lot of those hits go up the middle and quite close to his non-fielding body.

[Dick Allen]

you guys are all crazy for throwing the OP under the bus. the nationals straight up shut down Strasburg for the season AND postseason. I don't think it's wild to suggest we do the same. Kill a kid's arm and risk the future of the team just because we "might" get to the 1st or second round of the playoffs? I dunno. I think it's at least worth discussing, not flaming the OP about.

The situations are totally different. Strasburg would not be shut down right now if he didn't have TJ surgery.

[southsider2k5]

The situations are totally different. Strasburg would not be shut down right now if he didn't have TJ surgery.

 

Or if he were just about any other player on the planet...

[kitekrazy]

Apples and Oranges. They are winning without Strasburg. (wish we had Gio back).

 

Sox can't win without Sale.

[elrockinMT]

Chris doesn't seem to have the "stuff" he had earlier in the season. He seems to be getting hit harder and not overpowering hitters like he's capable of doing. I'm afraid its the early signs of a dead arm.

 

If we are to win the Series this year, I think he's going to have to pitch on three days rest throughout the playoffs. I really think we should sit him for the final week and half to let his arm rest and liven up for the postseason ahead.

 

 

tired arm is a concern for sure, but the Sox have done a good job of keeping him and others as rested as possible. We need to make the playoffs first so we need our best on the mound for the remaining games

[sin city sox fan]

I've been so pissed all day that I've avoided posting all day. Just been drinking and breaking things to deal with my anger. It was irresponsible to send Sale to the mound the day when it was obvious last game that he had a tired arm. Not only did it cost us a possible W today, but now Sale will probably not be available until game 4 or 5 of the playoffs if we somehow make it. I've been a supporter of Robin's all year, but this decision was absolute stupidity and I can't deal with it. Robins gotta go. Let him finish the year if you want...but we gotta have a guy running this team in 2013 who has a little common sense.

[max power]

I've been so pissed all day that I've avoided posting all day. Just been drinking and breaking things to deal with my anger. It was irresponsible to send Sale to the mound the day when it was obvious last game that he had a tired arm. Not only did it cost us a possible W today, but now Sale will probably not be available until game 4 or 5 of the playoffs if we somehow make it. I've been a supporter of Robin's all year, but this decision was absolute stupidity and I can't deal with it. Robins gotta go. Let him finish the year if you want...but we gotta have a guy running this team in 2013 who has a little common sense.

[kitekrazy]

The Nationals are making a dumb decision and are letting Scott Boras run their team. There is no guarantee that Strasburg stays injury-free and they also could have rested him during the season to limit his innings. And how do you know your team will even make the playoffs again? The Tigers were such large favorites and look where they are at. Funny stuff happens in baseball, go for it while you have a chance.

 

So do the Sox.

 

[kitekrazy]

tired arm is a concern for sure, but the Sox have done a good job of keeping him and others as rested as possible. We need to make the playoffs first so we need our best on the mound for the remaining games

 

I do worry about the future of Sale. It would be sad if somehow his career tanks because of this season.