Why Do I Care About Attendance?

[Steve9347]

F*ck attendance, get Rally Credes.

 

[BigEdWalsh]

Demographic studies have shown that Sox and Cubs fans are very similar overall, with some slight variations.

 

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-06...s-wrigley-field

"Cubs fans are more likely to own cats." Leaves me very confused.....I own cats.

[southsider2k5]

Certainly true. But...

 

 

 

Here is the thing. The Sox in the late 90's were drawing mid-teens in thousands per game. It started going up in the 2000's, then of course 2005 happened, but it never went back down to those 90's and early 2000's numbers. Mid-twenties in thousands per game is still more than they were drawing every year from 1995 up through 2004, I believe. The Sox fan base is still of course well below the Cubs fan base, but the gap is narrowing, and has been for a while now.

 

The aberration in attendance isn't 2012. Is the years immediately following the World Series.

[NorthSideSox72]

The aberration in attendance isn't 2012. Is the years immediately following the World Series.

I think that is what I said. Even if you take out the 2005-2007 bump, the attendance numbers are still generally up from what they were before.

 

 

[SI1020]

It is lazy lowest common denominator reporting. Meanwhile it takes the USA to break a story that actually matters on the field of play, that Adam Dunn is still playing with a torn muscle.

If you want to tell me that the local sports media is lacking hell yeah I agree. I grew up with Carmichael, Brown, Gleason, Damata, Rollow, Munzel and Holtzman, just to name a few. This wasn't a major story but a blurb. I stand by my previous claims that the Sox are in a tough spot, not the least of which is the fact that the Cubs have a decided advantage both in numbers of fans and friends in the local and national media. The attendance issue should still not be out of bounds.

 

[Marty34]

The average Sox fan has lost faith in the ability of this organization - from ownership on down - to put a consistently winning product on the field. 1 playoff win in 6, maybe 7 years now shows they are right.

[greg775]

The average Sox fan has lost faith in the ability of this organization - from ownership on down - to put a consistently winning product on the field. 1 playoff win in 6, maybe 7 years now shows they are right.

 

I disagree with that. We had a pretty good product on the field this season. What I've lost faith in is our organization to avoid doing so many weird, unexplainable things: win four-five in a row, then immediately lose 5 in a row over and over, and above all else inability to win divisional games. I think a lot of us thought we'd have a Braves-like run in us after 2005. Win the division A LOT, make the playoffs a LOT. We've had the talent to do so, but not the ability to overcome the twilight zone.

[Marty34]

I disagree with that. We had a pretty good product on the field this season. What I've lost faith in is our organization to avoid doing so many weird, unexplainable things: win four-five in a row, then immediately lose 5 in a row over and over, and above all else inability to win divisional games. I think a lot of us thought we'd have a Braves-like run in us after 2005. Win the division A LOT, make the playoffs a LOT. We've had the talent to do so, but not the ability to overcome the twilight zone.

 

8th best team in the AL is very much mediocre and I could not disagree more with the idea that we've had the talent to make a Braves-like run after '05.

[kitekrazy]

The average Sox fan has lost faith in the ability of this organization - from ownership on down - to put a consistently winning product on the field. 1 playoff win in 6, maybe 7 years now shows they are right.

 

I think that is it. Plus the lack of trust in Reinsdorf. (much of it is ignorance) It seems like when a Sox player's contract is up there is more pessimism of them getting signed than optimism. They let that part get played way too much in the press.

Edited September 27, 2012 by kitekrazy

[Marty34]

I think that is it. Plus the lack of trust in Reinsdorf. (much of it is ignorance) It seems like when a Sox player's contract is up there is more pessimism of them getting signed than optimism. They let that part get played way too much in the press.

 

No doubt there is a lack of trust in Reinsdorf and as you say much of it is ignorance.

 

There is a lot of things this organization does right unfortunately winning isn't one of those things. It amazes me the arrogance they operate with - you'd think they've got everything figured out. No changes in 6 years with 1 playoff win, but it doesn't stop their announcers or GM from blaming the fans. I hope the Hahn move signals a change in the "us v. them" attitude this franchise has had for so long, but I doubt it.

[caulfield12]

No doubt there is a lack of trust in Reinsdorf and as you say much of it is ignorance.

 

There is a lot of things this organization does right unfortunately winning isn't one of those things. It amazes me the arrogance they operate with - you'd think they've got everything figured out. No changes in 6 years with 1 playoff win, but it doesn't stop their announcers or GM from blaming the fans. I hope the Hahn move signals a change in the "us v. them" attitude this franchise has had for so long, but I doubt it.

 

Hahn's favorite team his whole life was the Cubs.

 

He went to Northwestern, is just as arrogant as Williams if not moreso, and you can be pretty sure the "profit maximization" theory of GMing and baseball/ticketing/marketing operations is going to stay in place until it's completely junked and they are forced to start over from scratch.

[Doc Edwards Shot]

I knew it would be down this year due to season ticket numbers, but I'm shocked/bewildered at HOW low it is. If payroll drops again next year, we have no right to complain.

I'm wondering how much the payroll can really go down even if Kenny and Jerry try. The only expensive guy leaving will be Peavy and the other expensive guys aren't really tradeable (Rios, Dunn, Danks, Konerko, Thornton).

 

AJ doesn't make that much last I checked, only about $6 million. So if they don't bring him back that's not that much in savings.

 

Boston paid $11 million of Youkilis' $12 million salary this year, so he doesn't figure in when they buy him out and make him a free agent after this season ends.

 

Seems to me the payroll is going to continue to be high.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Doc Edwards Shot

[caulfield12]

I'm wondering how much the payroll can really go down even if Kenny and Jerry try. The only expensive guy leaving will be Peavy and the other expensive guys aren't really tradeable (Rios, Dunn, Danks, Konerko, Thornton).

 

AJ doesn't make that much last I checked, only about $6 million. So if they don't bring him back that's not that much in savings.

 

Boston paid $11 million of Youkilis' $12 million salary this year, so he doesn't figure in when they buy him out and make him a free agent after this season ends.

 

Seems to me the payroll is going to continue to be high.

 

Remove Youk, AJ, Peavy, maybe Floyd, Myers....the only other places where they might logically cut would Ramirez (and he has no replacement, so not so logical, and he's not going to have you a huge return like after 2008-2010 seasons anymore), Crain and Thornton, but Thornton would just be a salary dump at this point.

 

There's no solution for 3B internally.

 

There's no solution for CF internally if they move DeAza, which they really can't because that would force a Viciedo trade and get you absolutely nothing in return, so you're surrendering talent with ZERO to show for it.

Edited September 28, 2012 by caulfield12

[ewokpelts]

2012 attendance is now at 2003 levels. It's projected higher than 2004 but still better than 2000, when the sox made the playoffs.

[NorthSideSox72]

2012 attendance is now at 2003 levels. It's projected higher than 2004 but still better than 2000, when the sox made the playoffs.

That was kind of what I was getting at. They are still mid-20's, worse than much of post-2005, but also better than much of the 90's and early 2000's.

 

Also, amazingly similar trend to the housing market.

 

[kitekrazy]

Weak fan support darkens Sox success

 

http://www.wbez.org/news/economy/weak-fan-...-success-102759

 

 

[caulfield12]

“I don’t think any of them are out there saying I wish there were more people in the ballpark. But, without question, they do notice when there are people in the ballpark and giving them that lift and willing them to win,” Boyer said. “When the crowd is behind you, it gives you that little extra push. It makes a difference.”

 

 

WHAT?

[kitekrazy]

“I don’t think any of them are out there saying I wish there were more people in the ballpark. But, without question, they do notice when there are people in the ballpark and giving them that lift and willing them to win,” Boyer said. “When the crowd is behind you, it gives you that little extra push. It makes a difference.”

 

 

WHAT?

 

He has to spin, it's his job. If you haven't, listen to the sound clip. The article isn't a transcript. I've also been following that thread on WSI.

 

[fathom]

“I don’t think any of them are out there saying I wish there were more people in the ballpark. But, without question, they do notice when there are people in the ballpark and giving them that lift and willing them to win,” Boyer said. “When the crowd is behind you, it gives you that little extra push. It makes a difference.”

 

 

WHAT?

 

Of all people, he shouldn't be saying anything. It's his job to get people in the stands.

[caulfield12]

He has to spin, it's his job. If you haven't, listen to the sound clip. The article isn't a transcript. I've also been following that thread on WSI.

 

 

I just think in some ways, it's MORE embarassing that the crowds have been pretty horrible in September even when they dumped the controversial dynamic pricing model and finally considered the fact that getting a big home crowd behind them was more important than maximizing revenue...

 

Yeah, some of it's obviously the agony of the recent 1-8 stretch, but that doesn't explain it completely.

[ewokpelts]

2012 total attendance is down roughly 35k from 2011.

The plus side is that this number was reached with a much lower sth base.

Down side is that base prices were actually lower than in 2011, and that the weather was actually mych better in 2012 than 2011(only one rainout had to be made up)

[NorthSideSox72]

2012 total attendance is down roughly 35k from 2011.

The plus side is that this number was reached with a much lower sth base.

Down side is that base prices were actually lower than in 2011, and that the weather was actually mych better in 2012 than 2011(only one rainout had to be made up)

The STH base is the biggest key. And that should be up at least a little next year, with people buying in as they stayed in first, and buying in during August and up through mid-September to get playoff rights. And the economy slowly, every so slowly, getting a little better.

 

But you are right about the weather, it would be hard to beat with the Sox had this year for their use.

 

The real question is... what impact will this have on payroll next year? The Sox have the benefit of all the float on the post-season tickets money, but also, it gives them an accurate look into STH levels for next year.

 

 

[Marty34]

With the lousy front-loaded schedule the Sox had I thought the only way they'd come close to 2 million was if they had an Orioles-type year. Schedule is a little better next year, but not a whole lot.