greg775 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 11:41 PM) You need a SP desperately and KW rolls the dice on Liriano. Turned out to be a terrible move. As far as free talent goes, Eric Stultz has given the Padres 93 innings, with the shape the Sox staff is in, no doubt he could have helped. Liriano stunk, but you are wrong about Reed. As far as Viciedo, 22 homers and his RBI totals are pretty good for a developing player. Not everybody can be Trout in their first season. If Viciedo doesn't improve next year, however, that will be disappointing. He definitely had an average season. It's acceptable however cause it was his first season as a regular. Had he truly been THE TANK he could have helped us win the division, no doubt about it. Like a lot of players, he won us some games, though, just not of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 QUOTE (SI1020 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 03:59 PM) Miami Marlins 13th out of 16 in the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) I thought they didn't have any awesome prospects/players? They don't. There is no one to replace AJ or Youk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 QUOTE (SI1020 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) Miami Marlins 13th out of 16 in the NL. Totally irrelevant to this thread. Cubs 50th-because some farm teams are better. Was that suppose to make us feel getter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 What a surprise. This discussion begins and ends with Konerko falling apart in the 2nd half. Ballgame. You can blame Liriano all you want, but the Sox record with him starting, the Tigers' record with Anibal Sanchez starting, is the same. Maybe Liriano still has a one game advantage, something like 5-6 or 5-7 and Sanchez has put up similar numbers, although he's been great down the stretch. I would be happy to pull up all most posts in the July period about acquiring Guthrie. That alone would have saved us 3 wins, at least. A number of posters said how horrible he was in COL (no argument there) and that he would be even worse for the Sox. The irony is that he also collapsed yesterday when he had a 4-1 lead, in typical Jake Peavy fashion. So the Royals came to play against the Sox and wet the bed in DET. Not completely unexpected, despite Billy Butler's bravado and swagger. I mean, we just lost the two most important games to a team that was just begging to fire their own manager and who'd lost their last 6 against us before cruising off with two in a row. To say that Reed and Viciedo are busts, but continue to leave out Konerko, Beckham and the rest of the inconsistent pitching staff and bullpen....well, what else should be expected. Ventura just overplayed his hand with the starters in the first half, and they got worn down. That strategy of Ozzie's was one of the main reasons we won in 2005...the fresh and prepared bench players down the stretch, of course, Ozzie had a lot better bench players to work with than Robin this year. But I'd say Konerko and Ventura's managerial decision-making process with the bullpen/pulling starters in the 2nd half was just as detrimental as 2-7/2-8 vs. the 7-3 Tigers run down the stretch. And I think we're still alive if we can beat TB tonight. However, with Peavy going, I'm not very confident he will step up and win one finally...one of the true "must win" games of the season to avoid a complete collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 06:52 PM) What a surprise. This discussion begins and ends with Konerko falling apart in the 2nd half. Ballgame. You can blame Liriano all you want, but the Sox record with him starting, the Tigers' record with Anibal Sanchez starting, is the same. Maybe Liriano still has a one game advantage, something like 5-6 or 5-7 and Sanchez has put up similar numbers, although he's been great down the stretch. I would be happy to pull up all most posts in the July period about acquiring Guthrie. That alone would have saved us 3 wins, at least. A number of posters said how horrible he was in COL (no argument there) and that he would be even worse for the Sox. The irony is that he also collapsed yesterday when he had a 4-1 lead, in typical Jake Peavy fashion. So the Royals came to play against the Sox and wet the bed in DET. Not completely unexpected, despite Billy Butler's bravado and swagger. I mean, we just lost the two most important games to a team that was just begging to fire their own manager and who'd lost their last 6 against us before cruising off with two in a row. To say that Reed and Viciedo are busts, but continue to leave out Konerko, Beckham and the rest of the inconsistent pitching staff and bullpen....well, what else should be expected. Ventura just overplayed his hand with the starters in the first half, and they got worn down. That strategy of Ozzie's was one of the main reasons we won in 2005...the fresh and prepared bench players down the stretch, of course, Ozzie had a lot better bench players to work with than Robin this year. But I'd say Konerko and Ventura's managerial decision-making process with the bullpen/pulling starters in the 2nd half was just as detrimental as 2-7/2-8 vs. the 7-3 Tigers run down the stretch. And I think we're still alive if we can beat TB tonight. However, with Peavy going, I'm not very confident he will step up and win one finally...one of the true "must win" games of the season to avoid a complete collapse. So now the guy that was brought in as an extra starter, and acquired for absolutely nothing, is the reason that Kenny should be fired? excuse me while I LMFAO at this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:19 PM) So now the guy that was brought in as an extra starter, and acquired for absolutely nothing, is the reason that Kenny should be fired? excuse me while I LMFAO at this thread. No. The reason he should be fired is because he has put together the 8th best team in the AL. Another team in the middle-of-the-pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:25 PM) No. The reason he should be fired is because he has put together the 8th best team in the AL. Another team in the middle-of-the-pack. And the Cardinals should have their 06/2011 World Series championships taken away because they followed MLB rules and actually qualified for the playoffs in their weak division, right? And the 1987 Twins, too? Those teams were failures because they weren't among the top five teams in their leagues during the regular season, so their GM's probably should have been fired before the playoffs started, due to the traumatizing regular season disappointment they provided their fanbase. Besides, he was fired, he demoted himself to a scouting primarily position so he could spend more time travelling and out of the limelight. Nothing new to see here. Edited September 28, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) A middle-of-the-pack team is appropriate send off for KW. They would have battled foe the best record had KW listened to your advice and picked up Pierre and Zambrano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:25 PM) No. The reason he should be fired is because he has put together the 8th best team in the AL. Another team in the middle-of-the-pack. A team that was expected to be more like 10-12 in the AL, which has outperformed expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:48 PM) They would have battled foe the best record had KW listened to your advice and picked up Pierre and Zambrano. Golf clap. I don't get paid to evaluate MLB talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:52 PM) Golf clap. I don't get paid to evaluate MLB talent. Great. Then why are you evaluating the evaluators of MLB talent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:52 PM) A team that was expected to be more like 10-12 in the AL, which has outperformed expectations. 10 to 8. Golf clap for KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:53 PM) Great. Then why are you evaluating the evaluators of MLB talent? His record speaks for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:55 PM) His record speaks for itself. He won a World Series, that alone is enough to give him something of a break. Never happened in most of our father's lifetimes, or grandfathers, for many. Never been his biggest fan, but he deserves a chance to go out on his own terms. And it seems he's doing exactly that. Personally, I get the feeling he wants to spend more time travelling and with his girlfriend out of the media spotlight. He'll come back eventually, maybe with another team, when he's rejuvenated and wants a new challenge. We'll see how things go under Hahn. It's also possible he would come back to the same role with the White Sox if Hahn stumbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:55 PM) His record speaks for itself. So do your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 07:55 PM) His record speaks for itself. So does yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 02:04 AM) He won a World Series, that alone is enough to give him something of a break. Never happened in most of our father's lifetimes, or grandfathers, for many. Never been his biggest fan, but he deserves a chance to go out on his own terms. And it seems he's doing exactly that. Personally, I get the feeling he wants to spend more time travelling and with his girlfriend out of the media spotlight. He'll come back eventually, maybe with another team, when he's rejuvenated and wants a new challenge. We'll see how things go under Hahn. It's also possible he would come back to the same role with the White Sox if Hahn stumbles. Sorry buddy, but this is too similar to what greg says about Ozzie that we criticize him for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 08:32 PM) So does yours. Dick Allen writing your material now? Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 08:33 PM) Sorry buddy, but this is too similar to what greg says about Ozzie that we criticize him for. Well, I'm not going to get pitchforks out and crucify KW for THIS season. If you want it to be for 2006, 2007, 2009-2011, then that's fine. But to turn around here because of our recent 1-7 stretch and say the season was a disaster, that's just pushing it too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Marty34's posts read a lot better when you soak a rag in paint thinner and stuff it in your mouth. It's a lil bit nauseating at first but if you poke yourself in the bum while you're doing it then the good and bad kinda equalize and you end up feeling.... just average really. But at least it doesn't suck anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 KW was given the reins to our rebuild. As Lincoln said, "don't swap horses midstream." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2012 -> 08:41 PM) Dick Allen writing your material now? Good stuff. Its true. You come on here to say Kenny needs to be fired. Someone asks what else he should have done, and you answer with you aren't qualified to answer that. Yet here you are saying what should happen to him for something you, self-admittedly, don't understand. Seriously, this thread sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Burnsauce? More like bansauce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) All season long, there's never been a single answer provided for who could or should play LF or SS more competently than Viciedo (and cheaper, with more upside offensively) or Ramirez, were they to actually be traded. If you can make such a "keen" and astute observation that they both need to go, then how can you not at least have any suggestion for what would be a better, more effective line-up, given the salary constraints we're still going to be operating under...knowing payroll will not expand with the disappointing ending to the season and essentially unchanged season ticket base? Anyone can go to ESPN or baseball-reference or fangraphs and pull up OBP numbers, or OPS, or WAR, righty/lefty splits or whatever. That's the easy part. The hard part is fitting them into a winning, cohesive formula. Cot's baseball contracts is also your friend. The story's no longer that our future looks as bleak as the Astros. It's that we still have a tremendous amount of question marks going forward, but a much better farm system than a year ago, particularly in regards to OF prospects and at least a few decent starting pitching prospects, not to mention a plethora of good relief arms. Edited September 28, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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