Worst collapse in franchise history?

[caulfield12]

Tampa and the Angels played as if their lives depended on it to win each game.

 

Not sure what we're doing, exactly.

 

Luckily I was on a field trip and had classes to teach the last 2 days or I would be more upset. Can't say I'm entirely surprised after the Angels swept us...but you thought they would right the ship against a reeling Indians team at home.

 

When they lost games 2 and 3 in that series and lost the division lead...well, it would be the biggest miracle/turnaround/reversal in Sox history were DET to collapse again, but they've got Verlander and Scherzer and Fister starts left, so that's pretty hard to predict happening.

[caulfield12]

4-1 with a 2.56 ERA in his career vs TB....It's certainly not a given that they lose, and if they do it prob wont be on Gavin.

 

The ship has far from sunk IMO

 

 

Funny, I was actually on a huge cargo ship on the Yangtze River in the middle of that game WED where the division lead went bye-bye.

 

I guess it's appropriate for the ship sinking and Titanic/Lusitania/Remember the Maine analogies to kick in.

[NorthSideSox72]

Funny, I was actually on a huge cargo ship on the Yangtze River in the middle of that game WED where the division lead went bye-bye.

 

I guess it's appropriate for the ship sinking and Titanic/Lusitania/Remember the Maine analogies to kick in.

Are you Ty Webb?

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

Funny, I was actually on a huge cargo ship on the Yangtze River in the middle of that game WED where the division lead went bye-bye.

 

I guess it's appropriate for the ship sinking and Titanic/Lusitania/Remember the Maine analogies to kick in.

 

Well like that ship didnt sink neither has the Sox "ship"

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Are you Ty Webb?

 

Tyler Durden.

 

Although I suppose I could be Keyser Söze.

[Chisoxfn]

Well, what is it?

Certainly isn't this year. Then again, I haven't paid much attention to the history. I don't think losing a 3 game lead to be a giant choke. Especially when the team was limping late and to be frank had numerous pitchers that were well in excess of what they had pitched the past couple years and you had 2 of your 3 best offensive players dealing with injuries (Dunn/Konerko).

[kitekrazy]

Anytime you are talking about a guy with back problems, that is a worry.

 

The Sox seem to be cursed in that area when it comes to 3rd base.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Has anyone mentioned that the White Sox are 10 games under .500 when playing teams not named the Minnesota Twins or the Seattle Mariners?

 

I think we were just fooled by this team....too much smoke and mirrors for too long. Everyone knew Detroit was a better team going into 2012....it just took them until the last week of the regular season to exert their superiority.

 

What's depressing is that there is so little to look forward to in 2013. The rotation will be Sale-Floyd-Danks QUESTION MARK - QUESTION MARK. And that's adding to the fact that Floyd and Danks are question marks in their own right. Sure, the team will be $24 million lighter with Peavy and Pierzynski leaving (although they really should re-sign AJ), but what evidence is there that the Sox will be spending this offseason? Not to mention the GAPING hole at 3B.

[kitekrazy]

Has anyone mentioned that the White Sox are 10 games under .500 when playing teams not named the Minnesota Twins or the Seattle Mariners?

 

I think we were just fooled by this team....too much smoke and mirrors for too long. Everyone knew Detroit was a better team going into 2012....it just took them until the last week of the regular season to exert their superiority.

What's depressing is that there is so little to look forward to in 2013. The rotation will be Sale-Floyd-Danks QUESTION MARK - QUESTION MARK. And that's adding to the fact that Floyd and Danks are question marks in their own right. Sure, the team will be $24 million lighter with Peavy and Pierzynski leaving (although they really should re-sign AJ), but what evidence is there that the Sox will be spending this offseason? Not to mention the GAPING hole at 3B.

 

There were a lot of fans not fooled if you judge by attendance. But the reason why they were there was playing solid baseball that seem to have evaporated.

When the GM in 2011 gives a hint that bad baseball is possible in 2012, you've already alienated people. They have said anything this season but since it's the Sox organization, you assumed the worst for 2013.

 

[Marty34]

Has anyone mentioned that the White Sox are 10 games under .500 when playing teams not named the Minnesota Twins or the Seattle Mariners?

 

I think we were just fooled by this team....too much smoke and mirrors for too long. Everyone knew Detroit was a better team going into 2012....it just took them until the last week of the regular season to exert their superiority.

 

What's depressing is that there is so little to look forward to in 2013. The rotation will be Sale-Floyd-Danks QUESTION MARK - QUESTION MARK. And that's adding to the fact that Floyd and Danks are question marks in their own right. Sure, the team will be $24 million lighter with Peavy and Pierzynski leaving (although they really should re-sign AJ), but what evidence is there that the Sox will be spending this offseason? Not to mention the GAPING hole at 3B.

 

Their immediate needs list is scary:

#3 hitter

#2 starter

3B

C

#4 starter

 

By 2014 might have to add

1B

2B

SS

CF

 

Major overhaul needed.

[kapkomet]

Their immediate needs list is scary:

#3 hitter

#2 starter

3B

C

#4 starter

 

By 2014 might have to add

1B

2B

SS

CF

 

Major overhaul needed.

 

 

So besides about 3 or 4 other teams in the AL for next year, what are the holes everyone else has?

 

This isn't the Yankmees, Rangers, Angels... the Rangers are loaded because they had years of mediocrity and drafted well. The Yankmees are the Yankmees and the Angels are now the Yankmees lite. So, what does everyone else do? There's no reason to think that they can't get in the mix and be close.

[Marty34]

So besides about 3 or 4 other teams in the AL for next year, what are the holes everyone else has?

 

This isn't the Yankmees, Rangers, Angels... the Rangers are loaded because they had years of mediocrity and drafted well. The Yankmees are the Yankmees and the Angels are now the Yankmees lite. So, what does everyone else do? There's no reason to think that they can't get in the mix and be close.

 

Just my opinion. You could be right. I prefer an attempt at fixing the problem instead of trying to patch it.

[GreatScott82]

The most talented teams to not make the playoffs were the 2003 and 2006 teams. This team really did over achieve. I give KW credit for not trading away the farm just to keep them in the chase. We pretty much got Youk, Liriano and Myers for nothing. Did it work out in the end, NO. But we can now go to the drawing board knowing what you have, and what you need. Also, for the first time- we will have $ to spend on FA's.

 

Trading pieces: Sell high on Rios! He never has 2 solid years in a row and it will be nice to free up even more money! I would like to trade Rios for more farm depth.

 

Biggest need for 2013- Pitching!

 

Lets turn this around for next year! We are getting closer!!

[greg775]

What's depressing is that there is so little to look forward to in 2013. The rotation will be Sale-Floyd-Danks QUESTION MARK - QUESTION MARK. And that's adding to the fact that Floyd and Danks are question marks in their own right. Sure, the team will be $24 million lighter with Peavy and Pierzynski leaving (although they really should re-sign AJ), but what evidence is there that the Sox will be spending this offseason? Not to mention the GAPING hole at 3B.

 

Very true. I think ticket sales are going to be so low it will make our heads spin. That is why the Sox are going to have to make some blockbuster moves. I realize Dunn was a blockbuster move a couple offseasons ago, but losing Buehrle and not picking anybody up will not cut it this offseason.

There will be PR hits when Peavy and AJP leave. The average fan doesn't care about contracts. They will just see we're losing Peavy and replacing him with one of our many inconsistent young arms. They will see we lost another face of the franchise in AJP and going with Flowers.

 

The obvious thing would be to get as much as we can for Rios, maybe even Paulie as well. I still think teams will not want Rios. He makes too much money with too much risk involved. He was that bad a year ago. But in a perfect world, you trade Rios for 3 minor leaguers, one with a strong upside. You trade Paulie if you have to for 2 current big leaguers and a minor leaguer with upside. You have to sign some free agent pitchers. I don't have the list. But as the roster stands now, this team is going to have major problems drawing more than 20,000 a game next year except for opening day and the Cubs/Yankees/Bosox series.

 

The Sox front office may not want to believe it, but the economy has become a factor. With this team not fully embraced by the fans and a team WAY WORSE on paper taking the field next year, the front office is going to have to actually sell this team to avoid horrific crowds. To do that best ... BLOCKBUSTER trades and acquisitions.

Edited October 1, 2012 by greg775

[southsideirish71]

The most talented teams to not make the playoffs were the 2003 and 2006 teams. This team really did over achieve. I give KW credit for not trading away the farm just to keep them in the chase. We pretty much got Youk, Liriano and Myers for nothing. Did it work out in the end, NO. But we can now go to the drawing board knowing what you have, and what you need. Also, for the first time- we will have $ to spend on FA's.

 

Trading pieces: Sell high on Rios! He never has 2 solid years in a row and it will be nice to free up even more money! I would like to trade Rios for more farm depth.

 

Biggest need for 2013- Pitching!

 

Lets turn this around for next year! We are getting closer!!

 

Our inability to hit cost us the postseason and our pitching is our number one need?

 

 

Edited October 1, 2012 by southsideirish71

[BlackBetsy]

This team has a long-term solution at exactly ONE position - #1 starter with Sale. And even there, his slight frame suggests that Sale may be subject to injury. We'll see if he holds up. Other than that, they have no better than average players under contract past 2014.

 

Best hope is for Hawkins, Trayce Thompson, etc. to get to the big leagues in a HURRY and perform. Otherwise, spend money on free agency. And there are ZERO 3B man on the free agent market this winter. Starting pitching is a better market. But offense can't be had through free agency.

 

I'd be surprised if the Sox contend before 2015.

[greg775]

This team has a long-term solution at exactly ONE position - #1 starter with Sale. And even there, his slight frame suggests that Sale may be subject to injury. We'll see if he holds up. Other than that, they have no better than average players under contract past 2014.

 

Best hope is for Hawkins, Trayce Thompson, etc. to get to the big leagues in a HURRY and perform. Otherwise, spend money on free agency. And there are ZERO 3B man on the free agent market this winter. Starting pitching is a better market. But offense can't be had through free agency.

 

I'd be surprised if the Sox contend before 2015.

 

Makes sense.

Who are Hawkins and Trayce Thompson? Are they locks to be excellent? Is Mitchell a lock to be a star?

[justBLAZE]

Makes sense.

Who are Hawkins and Trayce Thompson? Are they locks to be excellent? Is Mitchell a lock to be a star?

 

No such thing as lock prospect really.

[kitekrazy]

The most talented teams to not make the playoffs were the 2003 and 2006 teams. This team really did over achieve. I give KW credit for not trading away the farm just to keep them in the chase. We pretty much got Youk, Liriano and Myers for nothing. Did it work out in the end, NO. But we can now go to the drawing board knowing what you have, and what you need. Also, for the first time- we will have $ to spend on FA's.

 

Trading pieces: Sell high on Rios! He never has 2 solid years in a row and it will be nice to free up even more money! I would like to trade Rios for more farm depth.

 

Biggest need for 2013- Pitching!

 

Lets turn this around for next year! We are getting closer!!

 

There was nothing on the farm to trade. People are fooled by this season into thinking the farm system is decent. When Viciedo was in the minors, no one knocked on the door for a trade. Brent Morel and Tyler Flowers are not an answer unless you somehow get Cabrera, Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols in your line up.

 

I'd sell Dunn first. I'll take a chance on Rios having 2 solid years instead of a former NL who Ks too much to make an AL team better.

[greg775]

There was nothing on the farm to trade. People are fooled by this season into thinking the farm system is decent. When Viciedo was in the minors, no one knocked on the door for a trade. Brent Morel and Tyler Flowers are not an answer unless you somehow get Cabrera, Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols in your line up.

 

I'd sell Dunn first. I'll take a chance on Rios having 2 solid years instead of a former NL who Ks too much to make an AL team better.

 

We ought to trade some of these guys to the Cubs. Dunn would look good in Wrigley and Rios, too. Also Peavy should sign with them. Could we get any good Cub prospects for Dunn/Rios? It seems like the Cubs have had some decent prospects. Throw Beckham or Lexi in there if we have to to steal some of the Flubs' prospects??

[hawksfan61]

A lot of your posts lately are of this nature, almost like you aren't included as a fan. I find it interesting.

 

I'm pretty sure the fans care. Just because the attendance isn't great, doesn't mean they don't care. That's not exactly the best measuring stick.

 

As has been covered, it's hard to get people to come out this week when you are watching the team suffer a slow, painful death.

 

Here's a good read, especially towards the end.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/9/28/3421...te-sox-tailspin

 

Completely agree, I am getting tired of people killing the fans for not showing up for the last week. Anyone who has followed the team all year knew that the season was over the minute they relinquished the lead to Detroit. We have seen a lot of impressive chokes/collapses whatever you want to call them in the past 10 years, but this has to be one of, if not the worst. I know I could barely watch the games the last 5 or 6 days because it was so pathetic, and if I can't watch it on TV, how can I expect anyone to shell out good money to watch this crap in person? I buy the extra innings package every year, go to games when they are in Baltimore, try to go to at least a game a year in Chicago.....I like to think I am a pretty good fan, and if a pretty good fan can't stomach watching it on TV, why would anyone but the top 1% of diehards shell out good money to see these clowns embarass themselves again.

[hawksfan61]

I am already tired of all the whining about injuries related to this “collapse”. You think every team in baseball is not dealing with injuries to key players at this point in time? Dunn is what he is, a streaky all or nothing hitter who got cold when it matters just like every other veteran on this team the last couple of weeks. I don't want to hear about Konerko's wrist or hand or whatever other excuse we are going to come up with to explain away a horrible performance by a highly paid veteran player.

 

Second half performance this year:

 

Konerko: 255/324/426

Dunn: 202/306/442

 

Dunn in September: 210/319/419

 

Pathetic.

 

The thing that drove me the most insane about this whole "collapse" was the total disappearance of solid fundamental baseball by everyone on the team. Stupid errors, throwing to the wrong base, bad base running, swinging in horrible counts, pop-ups with guys on third base and less than 2 outs......these are all things that we had come to expect under Ozzie and they are big reasons why we have 3 playoff appearances in 12 years. When the year started out we WERE playing smart fundamental baseball and playing good smart defense and it was FUN to watch. To see the team disintegrate in this manner is the most disappointing end to a season in a long long time.

 

That is not to say that this team was super talented or anything, 2003 is still the greatest miss of the KW era, but this was a golden opportunity to make the playoffs, and when you make the playoffs anything can happen....etc. If nothing else it would have been nice buzz heading into the offseason and to kick off next year. Instead we get to talk about how the team played sub 400 baseball in the last month of the season in a division that was theirs for the taking.

 

[hogan873]

I'm pissed about the way the season has ended, but I was never comfortable with the lead the Sox had. I'm not surprised that they choked or collapsed or fell apart or however you want to describe it. There was about 5 minutes when they won that make-up game against the Tigers that I almost believed and then another 2 minutes when Dunn cranked two HRs to win the game against the Royals. But for the most part I've been fearing (and expecting) what has happened.

 

What's most frustrating is that it seems like they gave up. I know they didn't, and I know a lot of the guys are hurting and tired. But watching this team the past two weeks has been depressing. There has been so much excitement throughout the year with Dunn, Rios, and Peavy recovering; and Quintana coming out of nowhere; and Sale being the starter we thought he could be. Then it all came crashing down.

 

The Sox have been hanging in there partially due to the fact that the Tigers have been playing bad baseball off and on all season. And when it mattered, the Sox couldn't do it and the Tigers could. Tired and hurt or not, the Sox should have had a better showing at the end. There's no fight left, and now the season will end as most people predicted with the Tigers at the top. The Sox will finish with a better record than most analysts predicted, but to me that isn't enough. If they had been chasing the Tigers all season and failed to catch them at the end it would be easier to swallow. This just stinks.

[caulfield12]

There was nothing on the farm to trade. People are fooled by this season into thinking the farm system is decent. When Viciedo was in the minors, no one knocked on the door for a trade. Brent Morel and Tyler Flowers are not an answer unless you somehow get Cabrera, Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols in your line up.

 

I'd sell Dunn first. I'll take a chance on Rios having 2 solid years instead of a former NL who Ks too much to make an AL team better.

 

 

The Nationals, among many others, wanted him in 2010.

 

He was going to be a key part of the Edwin Jackson/Dunn deal, along with Flowers.

[southsider2k5]

I am already tired of all the whining about injuries related to this “collapse”. You think every team in baseball is not dealing with injuries to key players at this point in time? Dunn is what he is, a streaky all or nothing hitter who got cold when it matters just like every other veteran on this team the last couple of weeks. I don't want to hear about Konerko's wrist or hand or whatever other excuse we are going to come up with to explain away a horrible performance by a highly paid veteran player.

 

Second half performance this year:

 

Konerko: 255/324/426

Dunn: 202/306/442

 

Dunn in September: 210/319/419

 

Pathetic.

 

The thing that drove me the most insane about this whole "collapse" was the total disappearance of solid fundamental baseball by everyone on the team. Stupid errors, throwing to the wrong base, bad base running, swinging in horrible counts, pop-ups with guys on third base and less than 2 outs......these are all things that we had come to expect under Ozzie and they are big reasons why we have 3 playoff appearances in 12 years. When the year started out we WERE playing smart fundamental baseball and playing good smart defense and it was FUN to watch. To see the team disintegrate in this manner is the most disappointing end to a season in a long long time.

 

That is not to say that this team was super talented or anything, 2003 is still the greatest miss of the KW era, but this was a golden opportunity to make the playoffs, and when you make the playoffs anything can happen....etc. If nothing else it would have been nice buzz heading into the offseason and to kick off next year. Instead we get to talk about how the team played sub 400 baseball in the last month of the season in a division that was theirs for the taking.

 

By all means, don't let reality get in the way of a good old fashioned temper tantrum.