Worst collapse in franchise history?

[greg775]

It's amazing to me how much more angry you are at a team that competed and ran out of gas in 2012 as opposed to a manager and team that flat out quit in 2011.

 

THIS!

 

think about that sentence Greg....think real hard and long.

 

[round of applause]

 

You guys are very very smart baseball fans. Please answer this question for me: Do you agree that very early on, when Dunn and Rios showed they were not going to be crap and Peavy showed he was going to be the old Peavy, we could bury all the gloom and doom predictions of the preseason publications?

 

Because of Peavy/Rios/Dunn, the Sox indeed were good enough to contend, good enough as the All-In team of the year before. Basically what we had was the same team as Ozzie's last team, hence the expectations in my mind became the same for both teams.

 

Because of that fact, I became enraged that the team dropped 8 of 9 at the worst possible time. Had Oz been here engineering this year's choke job, many of you would certainly be as mad as I am right now.

 

Why am I madder now than Ozzie's last year? I think I was so mad at Rios and Dunn that year, that they took the brunt of most of my anger. All my anger was directed at Dunn/Rios. This year it went to the entire team for what I felt was a collosal choke job.

Edited October 2, 2012 by greg775

[2nd_city_saint787]

Well enough to put up #7 and #8 hitter type numbers in the 2nd half. Hooray! Thank goodness they're such gamers.

 

They were nagging injuries, nothing that could have got any worse. The team would have been no better with Dan Johnson at first and what Dewayne Wise at DH? At least having Dunn and PK in the lineup will bring out some fans.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

They were nagging injuries, nothing that could have got any worse. The team would have been no better with Dan Johnson at first and what Dewayne Wise at DH? At least having Dunn and PK in the lineup will bring out some fans.

Apparently not if you looked at the attendance this year.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Apparently not if you looked at the attendance this year.

 

Could you imagine what it would have looked like without those 2 in the lineup for an extended amount of time.

[caulfield12]

You guys are very very smart baseball fans. Please answer this question for me: Do you agree that very early on, when Dunn and Rios showed they were not going to be crap and Peavy showed he was going to be the old Peavy, we could bury all the gloom and doom predictions of the preseason publications?

 

Because of Peavy/Rios/Dunn, the Sox indeed were good enough to contend, good enough as the All-In team of the year before. Basically what we had was the same team as Ozzie's last team, hence the expectations in my mind became the same for both teams.

 

Because of that fact, I became enraged that the team dropped 8 of 9 at the worst possible time. Had Oz been here engineering this year's choke job, many of you would certainly be as mad as I am right now.

 

Why am I madder now than Ozzie's last year? I think I was so mad at Rios and Dunn that year, that they took the brunt of most of my anger. All my anger was directed at Dunn/Rios. This year it went to the entire team for what I felt was a collosal choke job.

 

 

Danks went down to injury and was replaced by a pitcher who was on the Yankees' Florida State (Advanced A) roster a year ago in Quintana.

 

Morel was injured and terrible early.

 

Beckham was pretty bad offensively for most of the season.

 

In one game, we used 8 rookie pitchers (KC) and STILL won.

 

We had a rookie closer and guys like Jones, Veal, Septimo and Santiago (two other rookies) playing a key role for much of the season.

 

Ramirez was just atrocious offensively the first 2 months of the season and never even got up to a 700 OPS. If he did, it was just for a few days, then he tailed off 100% at the end, especially with RISP.

 

Youkilis, Dunn, Konerko, DeAza, Floyd, Danks and Crain were all injured at different points of the season. Sale, too. (I'm sure everyone remembers that week!)

AJ was beaten up physically by playing way too much in the first 3-4 months of the season.

 

We probably had one of the five all-time worst benches in the history of MLB. As Fathom has pointed out, that was a weakness that led to the likes of Olmedo and Hudson being played in key situations. Dan Johnson wasn't utilized until it was almost too late.

Edited October 2, 2012 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

It's amazing to me how much more angry you are at a team that competed and ran out of gas in 2012 as opposed to a manager and team that flat out quit in 2011.

 

Unfortunately the result is the same. At least this year was a month longer of meaningful baseball.

[kapkomet]

Unfortunately the result is the same. At least this year was a month season longer of meaningful baseball.

Fixed.

[greg775]

I can't believe so many people on this board are OK with ...

a.) the Sox collapse.

b.) the Sox becoming totally irrelevant in Chicago and around the country. You guys got your wish. Big bad Ozzie is gone. And with him is any interest in our team outside of our 15,000 diehard fans which includes all of us on this board. That's it. We're like the Blackhawks, a very very very limited fanbase. And nationally we are now totally irrelevant without Ozzie making headlines.

Robin is fine. He says nothing of interest. At first I thought he might revolutionize managing, I thought he might be that special. It seemed like he really had a feel for the game. But as it turned out, his team "quit" on him every bit as much as they "quit" on Ozzie. But you are all happy because at least Robin didn't "quit" like Ozzie allegedly did which is the biggest misnomer in this board's history. Forgive me for being so mad at the team's collapse. I know the Sox were beat up, but so were a lot of other teams. Cabrera was hurt and we didn't even try to bunt at him.

Edited October 3, 2012 by greg775

[2nd_city_saint787]

I can't believe so many people on this board are OK with ...

a.) the Sox collapse.

b.) the Sox becoming totally irrelevant in Chicago and around the country. You guys got your wish. Big bad Ozzie is gone. And with him is any interest in our team outside of our 15,000 diehard fans which includes all of us on this board. That's it. We're like the Blackhawks, a very very very limited fanbase. And nationally we are now totally irrelevant without Ozzie making headlines.

Robin is fine. He says nothing of interest. At first I thought he might revolutionize managing, I thought he might be that special. It seemed like he really had a feel for the game. But as it turned out, his team "quit" on him every bit as much as they "quit" on Ozzie. But you are all happy because at least Robin didn't "quit" like Ozzie allegedly did which is the biggest misnomer in this board's history.

 

Because as Chicago sports fans we're used to collapses due to injury....Maybe because you're out in KC and didnt already experience the collapse of the Bears the last 2 years due to injuries or the Bulls last year because of the Rose/Noah injuries.

 

Welcome to Chicago sports

[greg775]

Because as Chicago sports fans we're used to collapses due to injury....Maybe because you're out in KC and didnt already experience the collapse of the Bears the last 2 years due to injuries or the Bulls last year because of the Rose/Noah injuries.

 

Welcome to Chicago sports

 

That's possible. The Rose thing had to be a crusher. Certainly the Bulls would have advanced at least as far as the Celts did with a healthy Rose. Maybe they would have kept LeBron ring-less.

[kitekrazy]

Because as Chicago sports fans we're used to collapses due to injury....Maybe because you're out in KC and didnt already experience the collapse of the Bears the last 2 years due to injuries or the Bulls last year because of the Rose/Noah injuries.

 

Welcome to Chicago sports

 

and excuses and just not being good enough....

 

when they do win it all it's because they were superior.

 

Chicago is still the city of chokers. The Northside counterparts have the biggest play in it.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

and excuses and just not being good enough....

 

when they do win it all it's because they were superior.

 

Chicago is still the city of chokers. The Northside counterparts have the biggest play in it.

 

Man kite you went from my favorite poster (because you said i was your favorite poster) to being one of my least favorite in a span of 2 days lol.

 

Just like the Bears were not gonna get things done without Cutler/Forte

Just like the Bulls were not gonna get things done without Rose/Noah

The Sox were not gonna get it done with a shell of Dunn/Konerko

 

I understand its different, the others were actually out out but the Dunn/PK they had were basically replacement level players compared to what we're used to...much like the other scenarios.

[southsider2k5]

I can't believe so many people on this board are OK with ...

a.) the Sox collapse.

b.) the Sox becoming totally irrelevant in Chicago and around the country. You guys got your wish. Big bad Ozzie is gone. And with him is any interest in our team outside of our 15,000 diehard fans which includes all of us on this board. That's it. We're like the Blackhawks, a very very very limited fanbase. And nationally we are now totally irrelevant without Ozzie making headlines.

Robin is fine. He says nothing of interest. At first I thought he might revolutionize managing, I thought he might be that special. It seemed like he really had a feel for the game. But as it turned out, his team "quit" on him every bit as much as they "quit" on Ozzie. But you are all happy because at least Robin didn't "quit" like Ozzie allegedly did which is the biggest misnomer in this board's history. Forgive me for being so mad at the team's collapse. I know the Sox were beat up, but so were a lot of other teams. Cabrera was hurt and we didn't even try to bunt at him.

 

Ozzie was one of the biggest factors in the "irrelevant" White Sox. If he is such an important part of getting people to the ball park, why did attendance fall the last five years he was here? With Ozzie here we lost close to a million fans a season, from the 2005 number.

[NorthSideSox72]

Chicago is still the city of chokers.

When the Hawks won the cup in 2010, the City of Chicago became the ONLY city with championships in all 4 major sports in the past 25 years. So maybe not so much.

 

[cabiness42]

When the Hawks won the cup in 2010, the City of Chicago became the ONLY city with championships in all 4 major sports in the past 25 years. So maybe not so much.

 

Boston?

[Dick Allen]

Ozzie was one of the biggest factors in the "irrelevant" White Sox. If he is such an important part of getting people to the ball park, why did attendance fall the last five years he was here? With Ozzie here we lost close to a million fans a season, from the 2005 number.

Kind of hard to argue with this fact.

[NorthSideSox72]

Boston?

Not as of 2010, which is what I stated.

 

Point more generally is, the idea of Chicago being the city of Choke in sports is nothing more than drama. It isn't founded in reality.

 

Think of it this way... baseball has 30 teams, and up until this coming post-season, there were 8 playoff teams per year. That means that a team ON AVERAGE will do to the playoffs about once every 4 years. So how has Chicago done since, say, 2000? Sox have gone three times in that twelve years, Cubs have also gone three times in twelve years - each averaging once every 4 years. Average average. Now, during that 12 seasons, there were 12 championships, which would mean Chicago would probably have slightly less than a 50/50 chance on average to have one of those. They have one.

 

Also, people forget, the Sox have not really had a late-season near-miss like this in recent memory. In the post-strike and three-division era, the Sox have made the playoffs three times. And how many seasons were they within a couple or three games (either way) in late September, but lost? Once.

 

People are upset because the team fell just short. They ran out of gas, they were hurt, they tried to do too much and couldn't get the big hit, they choked, whatever you want to call it... it was a very unusual event for the Sox. Anything else is just people venting their frustrations.

 

[LittleHurt05]

I can't believe so many people on this board are OK with ...

a.) the Sox collapse.

b.) the Sox becoming totally irrelevant in Chicago and around the country. You guys got your wish. Big bad Ozzie is gone. And with him is any interest in our team outside of our 15,000 diehard fans which includes all of us on this board. That's it. We're like the Blackhawks, a very very very limited fanbase. And nationally we are now totally irrelevant without Ozzie making headlines.

Robin is fine. He says nothing of interest. At first I thought he might revolutionize managing, I thought he might be that special. It seemed like he really had a feel for the game. But as it turned out, his team "quit" on him every bit as much as they "quit" on Ozzie. But you are all happy because at least Robin didn't "quit" like Ozzie allegedly did which is the biggest misnomer in this board's history. Forgive me for being so mad at the team's collapse. I know the Sox were beat up, but so were a lot of other teams. Cabrera was hurt and we didn't even try to bunt at him.

 

When exactly were the Sox relevant? The day the won the WS? That's it. Ozzie never made the team relevant, he just made his mouth "relevant". ESPN wasn't following the Sox results ever, just what Ozzie was saying.

[balfanman]

Not as of 2010, which is what I stated.

 

Point more generally is, the idea of Chicago being the city of Choke in sports is nothing more than drama. It isn't founded in reality.

 

Think of it this way... baseball has 30 teams, and up until this coming post-season, there were 8 playoff teams per year. That means that a team ON AVERAGE will do to the playoffs about once every 4 years. So how has Chicago done since, say, 2000? Sox have gone three times in that twelve years, Cubs have also gone three times in twelve years - each averaging once every 4 years. Average average. Now, during that 12 seasons, there were 12 championships, which would mean Chicago would probably have slightly less than a 50/50 chance on average to have one of those. They have one.

 

Also, people forget, the Sox have not really had a late-season near-miss like this in recent memory. In the post-strike and three-division era, the Sox have made the playoffs three times. And how many seasons were they within a couple or three games (either way) in late September, but lost? Once.

 

People are upset because the team fell just short. They ran out of gas, they were hurt, they tried to do too much and couldn't get the big hit, they choked, whatever you want to call it... it was a very unusual event for the Sox. Anything else is just people venting their frustrations.

 

You must cut that in half because Chicago has 2 teams. One of those teams should be in the playoffs every other year, not every four years.

[NorthSideSox72]

You must cut that in half because Chicago has 2 teams. One of those teams should be in the playoffs every other year, not every four years.

Read that paragraph again. Once every 4 years each. That is what I said.

 

[balfanman]

Read that paragraph again. Once every 4 years each. That is what I said.

 

Okey Dokey, my bad.

[Jake]

You want collapse? Wait until Texas loses to Oakland today -- losing a 13 game lead over Oakland would be a "collapse." 2-7 down the stretch if they lose today. If they don't win their wild card game, oh lawd

[chetkincaid]

You want collapse? Wait until Texas loses to Oakland today -- losing a 13 game lead over Oakland would be a "collapse." 2-7 down the stretch if they lose today. If they don't win their wild card game, oh lawd

 

That would almost make up for the Sox not making the playoffs. Almost.

[greg775]

Ozzie was one of the biggest factors in the "irrelevant" White Sox. If he is such an important part of getting people to the ball park, why did attendance fall the last five years he was here? With Ozzie here we lost close to a million fans a season, from the 2005 number.

 

Ozzie was so colorful in his comments the Sox were in the news daily. The columnists even in Chicago (Mariotti) couldn't help but notice. There was White Sox in the air every day locally and nationally. Now ... the Sox got what they want in a manager who utters all the cliches, which is fine. How can you not like Robin? But with Ozzie, all that was free publicity. The Sox were important. Now? They better add somebody to excite the masses, cause this team is close to 1970s type crowds on the South Side, Bill Melton-era type crowds.

 

This is just my opinion; I'm not trying to enrage.

[southsider2k5]

Ozzie was so colorful in his comments the Sox were in the news daily. The columnists even in Chicago (Mariotti) couldn't help but notice. There was White Sox in the air every day locally and nationally. Now ... the Sox got what they want in a manager who utters all the cliches, which is fine. How can you not like Robin? But with Ozzie, all that was free publicity. The Sox were important. Now? They better add somebody to excite the masses, cause this team is close to 1970s type crowds on the South Side, Bill Melton-era type crowds.

 

This is just my opinion; I'm not trying to enrage.

 

Some things can be deemed as opinions. In this case there is a provable statistic that can confirm or deny your theory that Ozzie got people to the ballpark. Attendance clearly shows the theory that Ozzie brought people to the ballpark is 100% wrong. The manager doesn't matter.