Worst collapse in franchise history?

[greg775]

Some things can be deemed as opinions. In this case there is a provable statistic that can confirm or deny your theory that Ozzie got people to the ballpark. Attendance clearly shows the theory that Ozzie brought people to the ballpark is 100% wrong. The manager doesn't matter.

 

But please answer my point about the free publicity and making the Sox a big deal. Ozzie did all that, did he not?

 

As far as attendance related to Ozzie, I think more than him ... the fans for whatever reason are tired of seeing this core group play baseball. Probably because of the station to station thing and the lousy bullpen work. Our games are very very predictable because of the way we play the game with these veteran ballplayers who are very slow. The home run is very exciting, but there's something annoying about the all or nothing aspect of the White Sox lineup. And once our managers start mixing and matching relievers, Ozzie or Robin, bad things are going to happen. People are just tired of this team.

Edited October 3, 2012 by greg775

[Greg Hibbard]

As far as the topic at hand goes, '67 was worse.

[greg775]

As far as the topic at hand goes, '67 was worse.

 

Thing is, '67 was considered a failure throughout history and this one is being shrugged off with the Sox still being applauded since "nobody expected them to be in contention and to lose 90 games."

[Greg Hibbard]

Thing is, '67 was considered a failure throughout history and this one is being shrugged off with the Sox still being applauded since "nobody expected them to be in contention and to lose 90 games."

 

So how is the answer to "worst collapse in franchise history" not "1967"? I'm not sure what the point of your reply to me is.

[southsider2k5]

But please answer my point about the free publicity and making the Sox a big deal. Ozzie did all that, did he not?

 

As far as attendance related to Ozzie, I think more than him ... the fans for whatever reason are tired of seeing this core group play baseball. Probably because of the station to station thing and the lousy bullpen work. Our games are very very predictable because of the way we play the game with these veteran ballplayers who are very slow. The home run is very exciting, but there's something annoying about the all or nothing aspect of the White Sox lineup. And once our managers start mixing and matching relievers, Ozzie or Robin, bad things are going to happen. People are just tired of this team.

 

If the publicity doesn't generate sales at the turnstiles, what good is it?

[greg775]

So how is the answer to "worst collapse in franchise history" not "1967"? I'm not sure what the point of your reply to me is.

I agree with you that 67 was worse.

 

If the publicity doesn't generate sales at the turnstiles, what good is it?

 

My point was Ozzie generated the buzz and should still be around to keep generating, but that the team of the past two years has jumped the shark. Fans have been there/done that. They don't want the product. That's why DeAza for a while was kind of a breath of fresh air. He looked like somebody we haven't seen in a while. We need somebody like Salvador Perez, somebody to shake the fans up a bit. Ozzie couldn't overcome the fact this team has bored our fans.

Edited October 3, 2012 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

I agree with you that 67 was worse.

 

 

 

My point was Ozzie generated the buzz, but that the team of the past two years has jumped the shark. Fans have been there/done that. They don't want the product. That's why DeAza for a while was kind of a breath of fresh air. We need somebody like Salvador Perez, somebody to shake the fans up a bit.

 

It wasn't a two year trend. It was a five year trend. Attendance has fallen every year since 2007. Ozzie didn't generate anything. As a matter of a fact we lost almost a million fans a year under his watch.

[Greg Hibbard]

It wasn't a two year trend. It was a five year trend. Attendance has fallen every year since 2007. Ozzie didn't generate anything. As a matter of a fact we lost almost a million fans a year under his watch.

 

More accurately, we gained a bunch of fans, and then lost them, under his watch.

[greg775]

More accurately, we gained a bunch of fans, and then lost them, under his watch.

 

The Sox desperately needed to complete the deal this year to generate that playoff buzz and excitement that only the postseason can bring. A division title would have meant a real playoff series, not the one game wildcard bulls***. Jerry should be furious because that playoff buzz would have really helped this franchise regain credibility.

[southsider2k5]

The Sox desperately needed to complete the deal this year to generate that playoff buzz and excitement that only the postseason can bring. A division title would have meant a real playoff series, not the one game wildcard bulls***. Jerry should be furious because that playoff buzz would have really helped this franchise regain credibility.

 

Right. Robin should have demanded a contract extension today. That would have fixed everything.

[Dick Allen]

Ozzie doesn't attract fans. Miami has a new park. Its still a sea of blue. The proof is in the pudding. Teams get worse when he manages, and most people are sick of his act.

[Greg Hibbard]

The Sox desperately needed to complete the deal this year to generate that playoff buzz and excitement that only the postseason can bring. A division title would have meant a real playoff series, not the one game wildcard bulls***. Jerry should be furious because that playoff buzz would have really helped this franchise regain credibility.

 

Just like the attendance bump they experienced in 2001 and 2009, right?

[2nd_city_saint787]

Ozzie doesn't attract fans. Miami has a new park. Its still a sea of blue. The proof is in the pudding. Teams get worse when he manages, and most people are sick of his act.

 

 

Ding ding ding.

 

That free publicity that you speak of greg was often the media showing how stupid and immature Ozzie was...Not exactly something you want to hear about your manager, and def not something thats going to bring fans out.

[Greg Hibbard]

2000 and 2008 were both electric experiences that allegedly were going to rejuvenate interest in the Sox and create a buzz and add credibility. Both were unexpected just like 2012 would have been. Both featured young players that were allegedly signs of good things to come.

 

In both subsequent seasons, the team did significantly worse (which is not inconceivable for 2013, by the way - it could go either way) and there was no residual attendance bump from a playoff appearance anyway, in fact, the team actually lost a significant number of fans in both years.

 

So, if your argument is that a single playoff GAME's revenue like 2008 would some sort of salvation for the franchise...

 

well I guess...I disagree.

 

The only thing that impacted the Sox was the WS win - and that was only for 2-3 years of a modest attendance bump.

 

Sellouts every night? Root for another team. It will never happen.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[jenksycat]

Ozzie doesn't attract fans. Miami has a new park. Its still a sea of blue. The proof is in the pudding. Teams get worse when he manages, and most people are sick of his act.

 

Only on this site does he do that

[kitekrazy]

Only on this site does he do that

 

Post of the week!

 

[Chisoxfn]

Has anyone mentioned that the White Sox are 10 games under .500 when playing teams not named the Minnesota Twins or the Seattle Mariners?

 

I think we were just fooled by this team....too much smoke and mirrors for too long. Everyone knew Detroit was a better team going into 2012....it just took them until the last week of the regular season to exert their superiority.

 

What's depressing is that there is so little to look forward to in 2013. The rotation will be Sale-Floyd-Danks QUESTION MARK - QUESTION MARK. And that's adding to the fact that Floyd and Danks are question marks in their own right. Sure, the team will be $24 million lighter with Peavy and Pierzynski leaving (although they really should re-sign AJ), but what evidence is there that the Sox will be spending this offseason? Not to mention the GAPING hole at 3B.

Take the Royals and Tigers out of the equation and this team had a pretty great record.

[Dick Allen]

Take the Royals and Tigers out of the equation and this team had a pretty great record.

73-53

[greg775]

73-53

 

That makes me cry.

[kitekrazy]

Worst collapse this season belongs to the Rangers.

[caulfield12]

Worst collapse this season belongs to the Rangers.

 

 

If they lose in the WC game, sure.

 

But look at 2006, the Twins chased down the Tigers and the Tigers "collapsed" down the stretch, except the Tigers were the ones in the end close to winning the World Series if not for all those errors.

 

Do you think any Tigers' fan looking back on 2006 cares they didn't win the AL Central? Or that Twins fans, having watched their team decimate baseball for 2 1/2 months, feels satisfied how that season ended in the playoffs for them?

 

If the Rangers advance and finally win the World Series, none of their fans will care at all. In fact, it will add to the legend, like the Red Sox coming from way back against the Yankees. It would make a World Series win all the sweeter...just like how in 2005, we very nearly didn't make it, then ended up winning it all.

 

None of us will forget that feeling of dread and forboding in September...which made the elation of winning it all that much more poignant and memorable, to go through the highs and lows of that entire season.

[kitekrazy]

If they lose in the WC game, sure.

 

But look at 2006, the Twins chased down the Tigers and the Tigers "collapsed" down the stretch, except the Tigers were the ones in the end close to winning the World Series if not for all those errors.

 

Do you think any Tigers' fan looking back on 2006 cares they didn't win the AL Central? Or that Twins fans, having watched their team decimate baseball for 2 1/2 months, feels satisfied how that season ended in the playoffs for them?

 

If the Rangers advance and finally win the World Series, none of their fans will care at all. In fact, it will add to the legend, like the Red Sox coming from way back against the Yankees. It would make a World Series win all the sweeter...just like how in 2005, we very nearly didn't make it, then ended up winning it all.

 

None of us will forget that feeling of dread and forboding in September...which made the elation of winning it all that much more poignant and memorable, to go through the highs and lows of that entire season.

 

There ya go. Worst collapse belongs to the Rangers.

[caulfield12]

There ya go. Worst collapse belongs to the Rangers.

 

 

Seems they are going in the direction of trading Kinsler, Cruz, playing Profar and Andrus together....Leonys Martin could be the RFer, that's where they are going to have to worry about losing too much offense.

 

Rios might be interesting for them, as they clearly won't bring back Hamilton now.

 

They have to figure out what to do with Michael Young, as well.

 

They could trade Martin Perez, Olt/Gallo and some combination of Kinsler/Andrus/Cruz to make a super package to get anyone in the game, almost.

 

Napoli could also be an interesting name for the White Sox to consider.

 

 

By Kevin Sherrington / Columnist

[email protected]

11:21 pm on October 5, 2012 | Permalink

Too many players make mistakes on this club and shrug them off. Too many guys picked off, too many errors on routine plays, too many bad at bats.

 

If the players won’t police themselves, then, it’s up to the manager. But that’s not Ron Washington’s style, either.

 

He asks a lot of a veteran bunch, with seven on the wrong side of 30 going out day after day after day. Granted, he had an awfully short bench. But when GM Jon Daniels gave him Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt, Washington didn’t take advantage of them.

 

Funny, then, when he sent Profar up to the plate in the ninth against Baltimore’s closer, Jim Johnson, and Profar lines his first pitch the opposite way for a single.

 

The rally ended there, though, as did any other rally Friday the last 18 games.

 

When the Red Sox suffered through a meltdown of their own last season, it cost Terry Francona his job. And he had a couple of World Series titles on his resume.

 

Washington made mistakes this season, the most glaring his blind loyalty to Michael Young. The manager won’t lose his job. The hitting coach, Scott Coolbaugh, may take one for the team, though. Possibly Gary Pettis, too. Hitting and baserunning were not Ranger strengths.

 

Other changes should come, too. The Rangers need to see what Profar can do, and it doesn’t need to come in pinch hit appearances.

 

Bottom line: Ian Kinsler should have taken his last uppercut as a Ranger. In many ways, he symbolizes the Rangers’ woes. A player of vast potential, he didn’t come close to it this season. Too many errors, too many pickoffs, too many shrugs. He has good trade value, though, and his exit opens up a position for Profar.

 

Give Profar a year or two at second, and the club can make an educated guess on what to do when Elvis Andrus’ contract comes up in two seasons.

 

The Rangers need to get younger. They need more pitching, too. Daniels should put together a package of Kinsler and perhaps Martin Perez, maybe even Mike Olt, and see what it brings.

 

Tampa Bay will trade a pitcher this off-season. James Shields? David Price? How about Josh Johnson, a perennial target?

 

They need better production out of first base. They need to make a decision on Young’s role. They need to change their style if they don’t bring Hamilton back.

 

Daniels has plenty of decisions to make in the next few months. The arc of any team, no matter how good, always descends eventually. By any measure of what we’ve seen as the last two seasons have played out, that time has come. He seemed to work the room quite well Friday. Let’s hope it takes.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Olt/Kinsler for Rios/Floyd =p

[Baines3]

The collapse this season was a bad one, don't know about the worst in franchise history.