On Base Percentage f***ing Matters

[South Side Fireworks Man]

It would help not having a .208 hitter batting third. The Sox need to somehow acquire a .300/30HR/100+RBI guy to hit third, or their offense will still suck.

[nickofypres]

Move Viciedo back to third. His bat plays a lot better there and it's a rebuild anyway.

 

I would be more willing to move him back to first after Konerko leaves. I can't imagine him at third being all that impressive, I'm sure its better than Miguel Cabrera, but that isn't really saying much.

[Marty34]

I would be more willing to move him back to first after Konerko leaves. I can't imagine him at third being all that impressive, I'm sure its better than Miguel Cabrera, but that isn't really saying much.

 

Can't waste first base on Viciedo who's a 6-7 hitter in a lineup unless you have bats at catcher, short, and center. And then only maybe.

[caulfield12]

Can't waste first base on Viciedo who's a 6-7 hitter in a lineup unless you have bats at catcher, short, and center. And then only maybe.

 

 

Can't waste at-bats on Tyler Flowers or Gordon Beckham because they're 8 and 9th hitters, etc.

 

You can't make a determination about any player's future based on one season. If he puts up the same numbers the next two consecutive years, that's when you can start to form some type of judgement.

 

Is Wise an ideal 1st, 2nd or 3rd place hitter? What about YOUK, who's hitting under .200 in the 2 hole (or close to it) for the entire second half of the season? Dunn hitting 3rd is ideal? Viciedo has been more productive or equal to our 3rd hitter in the 2nd half, Paul Konerko.

 

Is Konerko a 6th-9th place hitter? Obviously not when healthy, but now age and his wrist/bone chips or fragments are conspiring against him. He has to get it cleaned up 100% this offseason.

[Chisoxfn]

If a decent offer came for Rios, he'd be gone in a second if I was in charge. Too much salary, and history shows he'll regress big time next year. I'd then slide De Aza to left, Viciedo to right, and go after another CF if I didn't get one in return.

I won't be surprised when he's traded.

[Jake]

It would help not having a .208 hitter batting third. The Sox need to somehow acquire a .300/30HR/100+RBI guy to hit third, or their offense will still suck.

 

lol, go get him for us please!

[iamshack]

It's not just that we have low OBP guys. In some cases, such as Gordon's, it's more of a "this guy doesn't hit for average" problem, not just a "this guy has no patience" problem.

 

We have a lot of swing-for-the-fences type of guys, and I am not sure whether that is partially due to the bandbox we play in, which often times rewards this type of approach, or if it is an organizational coaching/drafting/acquisition deficiency, but it is certainly an area of concern.

 

The biggest return on OBP is not even necessarily the immediate and obvious result of more men reaching base, but just the amount of pitches it forces another team to throw to your hitters. Teams like Oakland and New York and Boston are an absolute bear to pitch to. They frustrate pitching, defense, starters, bullpens, managers, etc.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

It's not just that we have low OBP guys. In some cases, such as Gordon's, it's more of a "this guy doesn't hit for average" problem, not just a "this guy has no patience" problem.

 

We have a lot of swing-for-the-fences type of guys, and I am not sure whether that is partially due to the bandbox we play in, which often times rewards this type of approach, or if it is an organizational coaching/drafting/acquisition deficiency, but it is certainly an area of concern.

The biggest return on OBP is not even necessarily the immediate and obvious result of more men reaching base, but just the amount of pitches it forces another team to throw to your hitters. Teams like Oakland and New York and Boston are an absolute bear to pitch to. They frustrate pitching, defense, starters, bullpens, managers, etc.

 

 

I think that's it. This thread doesn't exist if it were June. The approach at the plate was much better and player have lost focus. We like to start picking on the lower end of the order when the money guys aren't doing their job. No one cared how Juan Uribe hit in 2005.

 

The biggest problem right now is the 3rd,4th spots are the weakest. You can't have a .200 hitter in the 3rd spot who Ks more than his average. Not in the AL.

 

If a playoff hunt your 3,4 hitters have to be reliable and some help from the 5th spot. The 5th spot can't do much if they others aren't producing.

[chw42]

I won't be surprised when he's traded.

 

Trade him to Anaheim. Get Bourjos and prospects (not good ones I'd assume) back in return. There's your gold glove CFer and 9th place hitter for cheap.

 

Edited September 29, 2012 by chw42

[bigruss]

Trade him to Anaheim. Get Bourjos and prospects (not good ones I'd assume) back in return. There's your gold glove CFer and 9th place hitter for cheap.

What would LAA need another OFer for? Or more so, why would they pay that much for another one?

 

NVM, I see that Hunter is a FA after the season.

Edited September 29, 2012 by bigruss22

[chw42]

What would LAA need another OFer for? Or more so, why would they pay that much for another one?

 

Hunter will be a free agent.

 

I doubt they'll just trot Vernon Wells in RF everyday.

[bigruss]

Hunter will be a free agent.

 

I doubt they'll just trot Vernon Wells in RF everyday.

Yea I just looked up his contract status, makes a bit more sense now. But with Wells being so inconsistent I doubt they want another high paid, high risk player in Rios.

[RZZZA]

wrong thread

Edited September 29, 2012 by RZZZA

[SI1020]

I think Youkilis is in permanent decline and his best days are way behind him. No way I would pay $13 million for just one season of him now. $13 million is what All-Stars get paid and he most definitely is not an All-Star anymore.

 

Plus, even though his OBP is good his BA sucks hard. He's only hitting .230. We need some balance between batting average and OBP.

 

He's not that good defensively at 3B either.

 

Figuring out an answer to 3B has to be one of Kenny's priorities for 2013. I sincerely doubt that he's going to pick up Youkilis' option.

I agree.

 

[joeynach]

I agree 100%, team OBP is what doomed this team offensively. I recently tweeted with Joe Sheehan about it.

 

Me

https://twitter.com/Joeynach@joe_sheehan Are #WhiteSox making too many outs b/c team OBP is subpar, .317 (20th in MLB), even though 714 RS good for 8th in MLB?

 

Joe Sheehan

@Joeynach They're just fifth in AL in runs despite a hitters' park and playing 50+ games vs. MIN, CLE, KCR. OBP is why.

[chiguy79]

 

They are going to continue the rebuilding process this off-season, averaging

[kitekrazy]

What would LAA need another OFer for? Or more so, why would they pay that much for another one?

 

NVM, I see that Hunter is a FA after the season.

 

I hope LA signs him since that's another guy KW always wanted. His numbers look good this year but that probably has a lot to do with Pujols and Trout.

[caulfield12]

I hope LA signs him since that's another guy KW always wanted. His numbers look good this year but that probably has a lot to do with Pujols and Trout.

 

 

He's 4-5 years away from being an everyday CFer (a pressing need for us) and this season was an anomaly or outlier statistically...in terms of his general offensive trends.

 

I would be hugely hugely disappointed if we swapped Rios for Hunter. If it's Rios, Hunter and another CFer, fine. But then you're talking one of the more expensive outfields in the AL, and two of those guys in their early to mid 30's when our biggest area of depth is OF (Thompson, Mitchell, Walker and Hawkins) going forward.

 

If that means DHing/1B with Viciedo, and Konerko's gone, or Dunn's gone, well, do what you have to do.

 

If they're going to find a band-aid or stopgap solution, 3B and catcher are the places to look before OF is considered.

[kitekrazy]

He's 4-5 years away from being an everyday CFer (a pressing need for us) and this season was an anomaly or outlier statistically...in terms of his general offensive trends.

 

I would be hugely hugely disappointed if we swapped Rios for Hunter. If it's Rios, Hunter and another CFer, fine. But then you're talking one of the more expensive outfields in the AL, and two of those guys in their early to mid 30's when our biggest area of depth is OF (Thompson, Mitchell, Walker and Hawkins) going forward.

 

If that means DHing/1B with Viciedo, and Konerko's gone, or Dunn's gone, well, do what you have to do.

 

If they're going to find a band-aid or stopgap solution, 3B and catcher are the places to look before OF is considered.

 

He misplayed a ball playing RF that created an inside the park homerun against the A's. That would be another Kenny guy, choking with pressure against anybody, everybody, not facing the Whiter Sox.

Edited September 30, 2012 by kitekrazy

[Jerksticks]

It would help not having a .208 hitter batting third. The Sox need to somehow acquire a .300/30HR/100+RBI guy to hit third, or their offense will still suck.

 

I think this is the sole reason the offense always looked dead. Gotta be able to advance the 1 and 2 hitters more than 20% of the time. Sadly, our offense was probably never feared.

[cabiness42]

I think that's it. This thread doesn't exist if it were June. The approach at the plate was much better and player have lost focus. We like to start picking on the lower end of the order when the money guys aren't doing their job. No one cared how Juan Uribe hit in 2005.

 

The biggest problem right now is the 3rd,4th spots are the weakest. You can't have a .200 hitter in the 3rd spot who Ks more than his average. Not in the AL.

 

If a playoff hunt your 3,4 hitters have to be reliable and some help from the 5th spot. The 5th spot can't do much if they others aren't producing.

 

I don't think there approach was all that much better in June. Free-swinging, low OBP guys get on hot streaks, and a lot of them went on hot streaks.

 

And Dunn isn't the problem. You can't look at his average. He is the most unique .210 hitter ever. Maybe in an ideal world you have enough good hitters in your lineup that you don't have to bat him 3rd, but I don't see the Sox having the resources to make that happen.

Edited October 1, 2012 by HickoryHuskers

[Eminor3rd]

I like most of your post but, 13 million for a .354 OBP? No thank you. There are many ways to get a .354 OBP and they don't cost 13 mil.

 

Where?

[kitekrazy]

I don't think there approach was all that much better in June. Free-swinging, low OBP guys get on hot streaks, and a lot of them went on hot streaks.

 

And Dunn isn't the problem. You can't look at his average. He is the most unique .210 hitter ever. Maybe in an ideal world you have enough good hitters in your lineup that you don't have to bat him 3rd, but I don't see the Sox having the resources to make that happen.

 

It's the Ks that bother me. A career high. He still hasn't figured out AL pitching while Pujols and Fielder did. AL pitchers have figured him out. If he is in the AL next year, I bet he doesn't walk as much. You can't have his low average in the AL with a supporting cast like the Sox.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

It's the Ks that bother me. A career high. He still hasn't figured out AL pitching while Pujols and Fielder did. AL pitchers have figured him out. If he is in the AL next year, I bet he doesn't walk as much. You can't have his low average in the AL with a supporting cast like the Sox.

 

Everyone knew when we got him that he was gonna K a ton, I dont see what the problem is when you drive in close to 100 runs, ranking 20th in the majors in that category.

[cabiness42]

It amazes me how much people will cherry pick stats to support "their guy" over "not their guy".

 

Viciedo strikes out 118 times, walks 78 fewer times than Dunn, with a 39 point lower OBP and a 43 point lower SLG, and people want to ship Dunn out the first chance they get but will scream bloody murder if the Sox try to get good talent in return for Viciedo. And even with all those strikeouts Viciedo had, he still made enough contact to be second on the team in GIDP.

 

If you're going to have an irrational hatred of strikeouts, then at least hate them for everybody and not just one guy.