Chicago Gang Violence

[mr_genius]

With Solar Power

 

made in china

[Tuna]

I'm curious what 'honor' rules your gang may have had. Were there any people understood to be off-limits, both in terms of random people (eg no old ladies) or other gangs (eg don't go after their kids)?

 

 

In the early to mid 90's things were much more structured than they are now. There were laws that you followed or you were severely beaten. Things like rape, hard drugs, harming the elderly could get you beaten, killed, thrown out of the gang or all three. Gangs are much more complicated than they seem. There was a board in prison that called the shots, handed down the laws and ordered the punishments. That board doesn't exist anymore. Most of the gang leaders in prison are isolated and watched very closely. There are still laws but they're not nearly as strict. When I said the 12 year old would be beaten, it most likely would have been done by some 14-17 year olds that are in the gang. Of course this is all hypothetical as I've never witnessed a 12 year old brave/stupid enough to swear and disrespect a bunch of gangbangers.

 

Gangs for the most part are extremely selfish. If you kill a child on accident, they will beat you and possibly throw you out of the gang. However, it's not because they feel bad for the child or the family, its because there's now going to be a huge police presence in the neighborhood. They are going to lock up as many members as they can and you can't sell drugs on a street corner with a squad car parked on the block.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Tuna

[DukeNukeEm]

I've heard from some people that the gangs have moles in the CPD kinda like the The Departed but not as blatant. Kids they keep out of trouble then get them in the force to mess with investigations, tip them off, get-of-jail-free cards etc. Confirm/deny?

[BigEdWalsh]

Really fascinating stuff to read, Tuna. Thanks for sharing.

[GoodAsGould]

I'm sorry I skipped through thread when were you in Shawnee, I was a counselor in Vienna a couple years back as an intern and went to Shawnee a couple times... would be weird if met. Also, prison food isn't good by any means but I had it everyday I worked and it wasn't terrible at least at Vienna. I mean, maybe 1 day a week I'd probably need to bring my own lunch if I worked there long term but I figured free food is free food.

 

You watch those gangland shows and laugh at how they are exaggerated?

[Tuna]

I've heard from some people that the gangs have moles in the CPD kinda like the The Departed but not as blatant. Kids they keep out of trouble then get them in the force to mess with investigations, tip them off, get-of-jail-free cards etc. Confirm/deny?

 

 

Deny. At least from my personal experience. I had a buddy that was married to a cop, but nobody sent her in there for any specific reason. It was just something she wanted to do/be. It did have a few perks for him, but no more than the average cop's family.

 

Bribes happen all the time, but this is Chicago so that's expected.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Tuna

[Tuna]

I'm sorry I skipped through thread when were you in Shawnee, I was a counselor in Vienna a couple years back as an intern and went to Shawnee a couple times... would be weird if met. Also, prison food isn't good by any means but I had it everyday I worked and it wasn't terrible at least at Vienna. I mean, maybe 1 day a week I'd probably need to bring my own lunch if I worked there long term but I figured free food is free food.

 

You watch those gangland shows and laugh at how they are exaggerated?

 

 

I didn't eat in the chow hall because of my fear of what inmates were doing to the food, not because it tasted that bad. My main objective to going there a couple days a week was to sneak back onions, peppers and tomatoes given to me by friends that were cooks or on the line so I could use them in the meals I cooked in my cell. I use to look at Vienna from the yard in Shawnee. Rumor had it that the inmates were basically free over there. That they fished in a pond and went into town to shop. I'm not sure how true it was, but the people who told me were very convincing (this was in 2003-2005).

 

Gangland is pretty accurate as far as the history of the gangs (at least the SD's episode was), but of course there's the extra drama for the tv. Anyone who goes on that show is an idiot.

[Jenksismyhero]

For sure, that way when the gang jumps you, not only can they steal your wallet, they get a free gun too, just hope that they dont shoot you with your own piece.

 

Guns for all, guns for all!

 

Its really not as simple as pro-gun people try and make it. Because no one believes that we have an unlimited right to weapon ownership (otherwise I should be able to buy a rocket launcher to mount on my tank), thus the question is, where does the risk of gun ownership outweigh the benefit of gun ownership.

 

My personal opinion is that its in public. Youre right to protect yourself, should not trump my right not to be shot accidentally. If you are so afraid, dont go in public. But let those of us who arent afraid live.

 

First, i'm not aware of an epidemic where gang members are robbing lawful gun owners. I guess show me that's a problem and I'll buy this "justification" to raise taxes.

 

Second, aren't you afraid of getting shot? Why don't YOU stay inside and not go into public if you're so concerned about the 1 in a 500 zillion chance of being shot by someone using a gun to protect themselves?

 

I'm all for putting reasonable restrictions on guns. But I don't think that should be done through taxes which we all know is a bunch of bulls***. Emanuel should come out today and say he's implementing a 1% tax on car owners because of the car jacking problem we have in the city. That makes about as much sense as this gun/ammo tax.

[southsider2k5]

First, i'm not aware of an epidemic where gang members are robbing lawful gun owners. I guess show me that's a problem and I'll buy this "justification" to raise taxes.

 

Second, aren't you afraid of getting shot? Why don't YOU stay inside and not go into public if you're so concerned about the 1 in a 500 zillion chance of being shot by someone using a gun to protect themselves?

 

I'm all for putting reasonable restrictions on guns. But I don't think that should be done through taxes which we all know is a bunch of bulls***. Emanuel should come out today and say he's implementing a 1% tax on car owners because of the car jacking problem we have in the city. That makes about as much sense as this gun/ammo tax.

 

If he really wanted to be honest, he would just admit he is taxing everything in the site to pay for the budgetary disaster that is the City of Chicago.

[StrangeSox]

First, i'm not aware of an epidemic where gang members are robbing lawful gun owners. I guess show me that's a problem and I'll buy this "justification" to raise taxes.

 

Second, aren't you afraid of getting shot? Why don't YOU stay inside and not go into public if you're so concerned about the 1 in a 500 zillion chance of being shot by someone using a gun to protect themselves?

 

I'm all for putting reasonable restrictions on guns. But I don't think that should be done through taxes which we all know is a bunch of bulls***. Emanuel should come out today and say he's implementing a 1% tax on car owners because of the car jacking problem we have in the city. That makes about as much sense as this gun/ammo tax.

 

Aren't most of the guns in the hands of gangs stolen weapons?

 

Also fwiw this proposal is coming from Preckwinkle, not Rahm.

[Jenksismyhero]

If he really wanted to be honest, he would just admit he is taxing everything in the site to pay for the budgetary disaster that is the City of Chicago.

 

Not to derail this thread, but I am a huge fan of Emanuel promising no tax/fee increases with a 5 billion budget deficit that will grow even more next year. If he can "find" or shift around 5 billion dollars in the budget this City is more f***ed up than I thought.

[Soxbadger]

First, i'm not aware of an epidemic where gang members are robbing lawful gun owners. I guess show me that's a problem and I'll buy this "justification" to raise taxes.

 

Second, aren't you afraid of getting shot? Why don't YOU stay inside and not go into public if you're so concerned about the 1 in a 500 zillion chance of being shot by someone using a gun to protect themselves?

 

I'm all for putting reasonable restrictions on guns. But I don't think that should be done through taxes which we all know is a bunch of bulls***. Emanuel should come out today and say he's implementing a 1% tax on car owners because of the car jacking problem we have in the city. That makes about as much sense as this gun/ammo tax.

 

A good portion of your response has nothing to do with anything I said. I have no idea what you are referring to about the taxes. I merely responded to the idea that more guns is a simple solution, when its clearly a far more complicated issue.

 

Your second point is the only actual response. I think an argument can be made for your position, I disagree with it though. I believe that society should be able to create rules to protect the collective. And if the collective believes that the risks of having a gun in public outweigh the benefits, then the collective should be able to make those rules.

 

Thus if Chicago wants to ban guns in public, they should be able to. And if Texas wants to allow machine guns in public, they should be able to.

 

I see no real reason why local govt should not be able to set their own rules with regard to this issue. I guess I am just anti-big govt and outside of a few overarching ideas, I dont think the federal govt should interfere with local govt.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

A good portion of your response has nothing to do with anything I said. I have no idea what you are referring to about the taxes. I merely responded to the idea that more guns is a simple solution, when its clearly a far more complicated issue.

 

Your second point is the only actual response. I think an argument can be made for your position, I disagree with it though. I believe that society should be able to create rules to protect the collective. And if the collective believes that the risks of having a gun in public outweigh the benefits, then the collective should be able to make those rules.

 

Thus if Chicago wants to ban guns in public, they should be able to. And if Texas wants to allow machine guns in public, they should be able to.

 

I see no real reason why local govt should not be able to set their own rules with regard to this issue. I guess I am just anti-big govt and outside of a few overarching ideas, I dont think the federal govt should interfere with local govt.

 

You wrote this:

 

For sure, that way when the gang jumps you, not only can they steal your wallet, they get a free gun too, just hope that they dont shoot you with your own piece.

 

I wrote my response. What's so difficult to understand?

 

(And yes SS, I know that was Preckwinkle, I was just making an analogy using Rahm)

Edited October 10, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[Soxbadger]

You said it as "justification to raise taxes".

 

I merely said that a possible outcome of having a gun, showing that a gun can protect you, or a gun cant hurt you. Still dont understand how that relates to taxes or anything else in your post. If you want to argue that no one has ever been disarmed before, we can, not sure that I care as I was merely stating a hypothetical situation where more guns are bad.

[GoodAsGould]

I didn't eat in the chow hall because of my fear of what inmates were doing to the food, not because it tasted that bad. My main objective to going there a couple days a week was to sneak back onions, peppers and tomatoes given to me by friends that were cooks or on the line so I could use them in the meals I cooked in my cell. I use to look at Vienna from the yard in Shawnee. Rumor had it that the inmates were basically free over there. That they fished in a pond and went into town to shop. I'm not sure how true it was, but the people who told me were very convincing (this was in 2003-2005).

 

Gangland is pretty accurate as far as the history of the gangs (at least the SD's episode was), but of course there's the extra drama for the tv. Anyone who goes on that show is an idiot.

 

 

I think by 2003-2005 they had fences up but for sure the 80's and I want to say 90's that is true. They had a pond for fishing, a skating rink, a golf course or at least a hole for golf and inmates were free to go around town as long as they reported back in time for the count. I forget the word but the "lockup" part for inmates in trouble or whatever reason instead of being fenced in they just had a yellow line around them that they weren't supposed to step out of. All that stuff is history now, they definitely have a lot more freedom than the inmates at Shawnee but that doesn't stop them all from complaining.

[Jenksismyhero]

You said it as "justification to raise taxes".

 

I merely said that a possible outcome of having a gun, showing that a gun can protect you, or a gun cant hurt you. Still dont understand how that relates to taxes or anything else in your post. If you want to argue that no one has ever been disarmed before, we can, not sure that I care as I was merely stating a hypothetical situation where more guns are bad.

 

I thought you were responding to my initial post about Preckwinkles belief that taxes on gun and ammo purchases would somehow curb gun violence. You said criminals could take guns from people. I assumed you were agreeing with her, so I responded by saying I wasn't aware that robberies involving the theft of guns was such a problem (if it's not a problem, her justification for the tax is bulls***).

 

Clearly you were just talking about guns in general, whereas I was talking about her tax proposal and the lame justification for it.

[StrangeSox]

She heard Chris Rock's bullet routine and thought it was a good idea. Based on the 15 seconds this morning on either NBC or WBEZ that I heard about this, the idea is simply that higher taxes=less gun/bullet purchases=less supply on the street.

[Tuna]

She heard Chris Rock's bullet routine and thought it was a good idea. Based on the 15 seconds this morning on either NBC or WBEZ that I heard about this, the idea is simply that higher taxes=less gun/bullet purchases=less supply on the street.

 

 

Only problem with that line of thinking is half the time criminals steal the guns which obviously means they don't pay taxes. Gangs have a lot of disposable income. Each member has to pay dues every week, if you sell drugs in the neighborhood a percentage comes back to the gang, etc...there are a lot of revenue streams. Higher costs for when they send a straw buyer down south or to a gun show is a slight inconvenience. In the mean time it can make or break whether an honest joe can afford the purchase.

[StrangeSox]

Less legally purchased guns and bullets means less guns and bullets available to steal. I think that's the concept, not that I think it's a realistic idea.

[Tuna]

Less legally purchased guns and bullets means less guns and bullets available to steal. I think that's the concept, not that I think it's a realistic idea.

 

 

I understand the concept and I'm not a big gun advocate. If you just look at our history, when they made alcohol illegal, it wasn't much harder to find. If it's too expensive, people made hooch. Same goes for heroin, cocaine, etc...when that was too expensive you saw/see people cooking meth in trailers. The criminal element is a crafty bunch.

[Jenksismyhero]

She heard Chris Rock's bullet routine and thought it was a good idea. Based on the 15 seconds this morning on either NBC or WBEZ that I heard about this, the idea is simply that higher taxes=less gun/bullet purchases=less supply on the street.

 

But again, that's assuming there's an issue with legal gun owners/buyers getting robbed of their guns. I've never heard of that before. I mean, how would gangs know which person to rob? And really, what's the percentage of a theft of a gun versus the number of guns out there? This seems like a lame tax with a lame ass justification ("won't someone think of the children!")

[EvilMonkey]

Aren't most of the guns in the hands of gangs stolen weapons?

 

Also fwiw this proposal is coming from Preckwinkle, not Rahm.

That picture of her in the article looks like she really has to take a crap but nothing will come out. That, or she is trying to channel Muhammad Ali.

[greg775]

Other questions: Is it a myth that the Cell is a bad neighborhood?

 

IMO it's the surrounding areas, I don't view bridgeport as a bad neighborhood (east of Halsted anyway). I actually lived on 33rd and Parnell and went to St Lucy school. Back when I lived there, racism was more of an issue than gangs. I'm the same age and was friends with a couple of the guys that were responsible for the Leonard Clark beating. I thought it was stupid then and I hold the same opinion now.

 

do gangs hang on on the periphery of the park to rob people?

 

That's more of an individual thing if it happens. I've personally never been robbed by the park and have never met anyone that's been robbed by the park (except ticket prices) so I cant speak too much to that.

 

What about the United Center? If you are white and walk around that neighborhood are you cooked?

 

I believe that to be true for the entire west side including the area around the United Center.

 

If you are in a gang do you have to beat people and rob people to prove you are not a p****?

 

Beat, yes. Rob, no. If somebody in your gang is fighting and losing, you better jump in or the gang will beat your ass for not doing anything. If someone is disrespectful or challenges you then you have to fight, even if you don't think you can win.

 

Let's say a 12-year-old saw the gang and yelled cuss words at you all. Would you beat him or is 12 too young and you guys would just laugh?

 

Unfortunately, that 12 year old would get beat.

 

Have you ever witnessed a murder or severe beating?

 

Yes

 

 

Let's say you were still in a gang and I was walking down the wrong street and you guys were going to beat/rob me. Let's say I knew you personally and before I got beat I said, 'Hey Tuna, stand up for me.' Would the gang then leave me alone?

 

This is a tricky question. If I was there and we were friends, you wouldn't need to speak at all as I would just tell them you were my guy and nobody would question it. If I wasn't there and you told them, "hey I'm friends with Tuna" they would leave you alone and you could continue to walk without any problems.

 

 

Finally, in your new life, do people get scared when they see your tattoo or you tell your neighbors you served time in the slammer? Do you cause fear in them or do they give you a chance?

 

Honestly, this is the most I've talked about it since I've been away. I'm not proud of my past, but at the same time I'm not ashamed. I did what I did. I feel like I'm a better husband because I know how dedicated my wife is to me and I know what it's like to not be with her every night. I'm a better father because I know what it's like to be powerless over helping to shape my kids futures. Not to mention, it's very difficult for my kids to get away with lies considering that I've told them all at some point in my life. I find that people have been very accepting of me.

 

also ...

 

Why did you go to jail?

 

Juvi:

 

UUW (unlawful use of a weapon) - I brought a gun to school.

sentence: probation

 

-Attempted Murder

-sentence: 30 months juvi DOC

 

The first time as a adult I got 6 years for the following:

 

-Possession of a firearm

-Obstruction of Justice - Gave a fake name to police

-Theft 10k-100k - I was involved in a robbery of a currency exchange, they dropped the charges to theft in the cop out

 

Parole Violation:

 

-Failed drug test

 

The second time I got 5 years for:

 

Possession/attempt to sell stolen motor vehicle - 3 counts - I ran a chop shop

 

 

What is life like in jail? Is jail boring? Do you have TV in jail?

 

Quite honestly, life wasn't that bad. Time goes by really quick. I was in Western (Mt Sterling), Sheridan, Shawnee. I was processed in Joliet the first time, then in Statesville for the parole violation and second sentence.

 

I was fortunate enough to have people send me money so I rarely ate the prison food. I cooked in my cell, had a hot pot for coffee, had a radio, TV (with cable), battery powered shaver, jogging pants, tshirts/sweatshirts. Ramen noodles were typically used for the base of every meal. You could add chili and summer sausage, jalapenos, cheese etc...you could buy pop, chips, little debbie, etc...We made tattoo guns out of walkmans and passed time that way. I played a lot of poker and spades for money (money was considered items bought from the store). It wasn't that horrible of an experience. Around 2001-2002 the prisons did start to get more strict, but it still wasn't that bad.

 

 

Were you ever beaten?

 

I got into a few fights, I didn't win them all, but I wouldn't say that I took a "beating". More like roughed up a little bit.

 

 

Did anybody ever try to rape you?

 

No. In the 80's and early/mid 90's prisons were a lot tougher than they are now (ie Richard Speck leaked video). I imagine that still goes on somewhat in the maximum security prisons, but I didn't spend a significant amount of time there so I can't speak on it.

 

Was it the greatest moment of your life when you got out of jail?

 

Can't even put it into words

 

 

Do employers hold your jail experience against you in trying to get a job?

 

The application didn't ask if I was ever convicted of a crime. In the interview I kept my hand out of sight. I got the job, showed great work ethic and never complained about hours or tasks. I was promoted several times and I am now the GM of the company (only person above me is the owner). I staff and oversee a couple stores, route all deliveries, inventory control, hire/fire, A/R, manage all aspects of Penske truck rental done out of one of our locations, etc...

 

My employer asked what the tattoo's meant on my hand, I gave him a smile and said, "product of a misspent youth" and we left it at that. If I told him about my past he probably wouldn't believe me, I've changed that much in my day to day life.

 

What is your profession?

 

I work for a rental company. We set up tents for weddings, festivals, etc...

 

 

Thanks tuna. This stuff is so interesting.

 

No problem, buddy. You guys keep me up to date and entertained with White Sox news/rumors/opinions every day, it's the least I could do.

 

Tuna, I just went back in the thread to see if you answered my questions. Thank you very much. I don't know why, I'm in an emotional mood this week since my buddy's wife was deemed cancer free after 6 months of chemo, but I teared up reading your responses when you said the best feeling was the day you got out of jail. You just seem like a good person and even though I don't know you I'm glad you turned your life around. This is ironic because from what you wrote, in a different time and place you'd have beaten the hell out of me if I wandered in the way of your gang. Thanks for your answers. It's very educational for me. I've always wanted to volunteer in Leavenworth prison in some capacity but have always been afraid to do so.

 

Do you think it's worth being a volunteer in some capacity or do you think it's all fake for the prisoners and they don't really want Bible study/and or English classes, etc?

Thanks Tuna. You are da man.

Edited October 11, 2012 by greg775

[GoodAsGould]

Tuna, I just went back in the thread to see if you answered my questions. Thank you very much. I don't know why, I'm in an emotional mood this week since my buddy's wife was deemed cancer free after 6 months of chemo, but I teared up reading your responses when you said the best feeling was the day you got out of jail. You just seem like a good person and even though I don't know you I'm glad you turned your life around. This is ironic because from what you wrote, in a different time and place you'd have beaten the hell out of me if I wandered in the way of your gang. Thanks for your answers. It's very educational for me. I've always wanted to volunteer in Leavenworth prison in some capacity but have always been afraid to do so.

 

Do you think it's worth being a volunteer in some capacity or do you think it's all fake for the prisoners and they don't really want Bible study/and or English classes, etc?

Thanks Tuna. You are da man.

 

Thats not a really fair question, some of the inmates bible study/classes they take very sincerely and others look at it just as a way to get out of their cell or get "good time" It all depends on the individual, so you could make a difference but have to understand some aren't there to learn/improve.

[Y2HH]

But again, that's assuming there's an issue with legal gun owners/buyers getting robbed of their guns. I've never heard of that before. I mean, how would gangs know which person to rob? And really, what's the percentage of a theft of a gun versus the number of guns out there? This seems like a lame tax with a lame ass justification ("won't someone think of the children!")

 

Because it's another bulls*** argument from reality disconnected anti-gun crowd. I'm sure some guns are stolen during home break-ins, etc...but there is no mass targeted gun theft conspiracy. Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws int he nation, and probably the highest gun related crime.

 

As Tuna said above, you aren't getting rid of guns by banning them, just like they didn't get rid of Alcohol by banning it, or drugs for that matter. But, let's stick our heads in the sand and ignore that, after all, repeating past mistakes over and over again at the expense of the taxpayer is what we do. So long as we fool them into think they're safer, even if they aren't, is all that matters.

 

Look, the only way to "ban" guns, is to un-invent them and then, somehow, ban their invention from that point forward. In other words, not happening. I've said this before, and I'll say it again -- (hopefully someone reads it this time, and actually takes a moment to contemplate it) -- banning guns, much like banning drugs, will do nothing but create a violent, highly profitable and dangerous underground black market. The same cartels that deal in drugs would just add guns to their list of goods.