chw42 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) This season will be yet another challenge for the BBWAA when it comes to the AL MVP. Last year, they voted a pitcher the MVP, even though Jacoby Ellsbury had one of the best all-around seasons in very recent history. This year, Miguel Cabrera looks like he will win the Triple Crown, the first since Yaz in 67. However, Mike Trout is having one of the best seasons in the history of the game and he's doing it at 20 years old. From a statistical point of view, Mike Trout wins and he wins by a lot. Not only is Trout MORE potent on offense (his wOBA is 6 points higher than Cabrera's), but he's light years better on defense. From an offensive standpoint, it's debatable, but you cannot compare the two on defense. According to UZR, Trout has saved 13.3 runs this year. Cabrera? -9.1. Since the BBWAA is a bunch of journalists looking for a good story, I wonder which one they will take. The guy who wins the first Triple Crown in 45 years or the 20 year old phenom who gave his struggling team a jolt and put up one of the best all-around seasons in the history of the game? What's your take? Edited October 2, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I vote Trout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I don't think there's a wrong answer. It's hard to ignore Trout's overall game, but it's also hard to ignore a Triple Crown winner. And I don't want to hear how those stats don't matter. Maybe to scouts, RBI totals don't matter. But in the major leagues, those guys are paid to drive in runs. They matter. I'd go Trout because defense matters, and his offensive skills were incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If Cabrera wins the triple crown - him. If not, Trout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Even though I typically abide by the playoff rule when it comes to MVP, the Angels were certainly contenders, and actually will win more games this year than the Tigers. Also, Trout is having a historic season that has never been done before, he MISSED an entire month of games in the minors, and he turned the Angels around. Angels were 7-14 before Trout arrived. With Trout, they went 82-57. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'd go with Cabrera. He gets the obvious support for the triple crown stuff. Plus he gets the bonus points for his team making the playoffs, and for putting the team on his back during the stretch run and carrying them there. I know his defense is a joke, but when it comes to MVP the timing of their statistics matters (trout has cooled off significantly down the stretch) Cabrera really separates himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 01:08 PM) I don't think there's a wrong answer. It's hard to ignore Trout's overall game, but it's also hard to ignore a Triple Crown winner. And I don't want to hear how those stats don't matter. Maybe to scouts, RBI totals don't matter. But in the major leagues, those guys are paid to drive in runs. They matter. I'd go Trout because defense matters, and his offensive skills were incredible. This is definitely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I would be shocked if Cabrera didn't win. The combination of the Triple Crown, Tigers making the playoffs, and the Angels getting eliminated (despite winning more games than DET) will clinch it for Cabrera. I don't trust the writers enough to look past those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If Cabrera wins the triple crown - him. If not, Trout. This. I get that when you figure in defense, Trout has been a more valuable player statistically, but a triple crown winner on a division-winning team gets my MVP vote. Otherwise, you might as well just let the computer pick the winner every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) This. I get that when you figure in defense, Trout has been a more valuable player statistically, but a triple crown winner on a division-winning team gets my MVP vote. Otherwise, you might as well just let the computer pick the winner every year. The Tigers will probably win less games than the Angels. It's not like Trout played meaningless baseball all year. And honestly, the triple crown is probably overrated. Leading the league in HR and AVG does matter. But RBI? I wouldn't go as far to say that RBIs are completely meaningless, but that's a team-dependent stat. If Cabrera didn't have Jackson and Berry hitting in front of him, would have have the amount of RBIs he has? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) The Tigers will probably win less games than the Angels. It's not like Trout played meaningless baseball all year. And honestly, the triple crown is probably overrated. Leading the league in HR and AVG does matter. But RBI? I wouldn't go as far to say that RBIs are completely meaningless, but that's a team-dependent stat. If Cabrera didn't have Jackson and Berry hitting in front of him, would have have the amount of RBIs he has? I doubt it. Something that hasn't happened in over 45 years is hard to overrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'd go with Trout. How many more RBIs would he have if he batted 3rd? Another 12 to 17? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 01:11 PM) If Cabrera wins the triple crown - him. If not, Trout. So if Hamilton hits 1 more HR than Cabrera that will swing your choice to Trout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) Something that hasn't happened in over 45 years is hard to overrate. Here's the thing. The Triple Crown is hard to obtain because it's both an individual and a team achievement. It also depends on your competition for the achievement that year. Players can be great and lead the league in home runs and batting average, but not lead in RBI due to the fact they might never bat with as many runners on base as another player. Barry Bonds was possibly the greatest hitter in baseball history when he was roided up between 2001 and 2005. But he never once came close to a Triple Crown. Why? Because he was the only real hitter on that team and he got walked 200 times a year and he didn't hit with a lot of runners on base. So he had no chance at leading the league in RBI. It's hard to achieve, but at the same time, you have to ask yourself, are all of the stats it takes into consideration related to individual performance and individual performance alone? The answer would be no. The flair of the Triple Crown is pretty much that it hasn't been done in almost 50 years. However, just because it hasn't been done in 50 years does not mean the player A, the player who achieved it, is better than player B, who just happens to destroy player A in base running and defense while being comparable on offense. Moreover, what if Cabrera loses the Triple Crown by 1 RBI or 1 point in batting average? Is Cabrera any less valuable because he got one less RBI or one less home run? I seriously doubt it. Edited October 2, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) So if Hamilton hits 1 more HR than Cabrera that will swing your choice to Trout? It should have no bearing. If you seriously think Cabrera is better than Trout, then you vote Cabrera. You shouldn't vote for Cabrera just because he wins a Triple Crown. Is having one more RBI or one more home run than Josh Hamilton that important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:04 PM) It should have no bearing. If you seriously think Cabrera is better than Trout, then you vote Cabrera. You shouldn't vote for Cabrera just because he wins a Triple Crown. Is having one more RBI or one more home run than Josh Hamilton that important? That's what I think too. MVP = most valuable player. Not most valuable hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:43 PM) I'd go with Trout. How many more RBIs would he have if he batted 3rd? Another 12 to 17? If Trout was batting 3rd and started the season when everyone else did, he'd have at least 110 RBI and around 40 HR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 05:30 PM) If Trout was batting 3rd and started the season when everyone else did, he'd have at least 110 RBI and around 40 HR. I'd say 35 and 120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 08:09 PM) I'd say 35 and 120. 25 more games + hitting in a power spot. I think he'd muster more than 5 home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Cabrera wins, last time I checked Angels did not make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 10:48 PM) Cabrera wins, last time I checked Angels did not make the playoffs. Angels have more wins than the Tigers, and the Angels played meaningful games deep into the season. I wouldn't ding Trout for playing in the AL West over Cabrera playing in the s***ty Central. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 10:48 PM) Cabrera wins, last time I checked Angels did not make the playoffs. Not sure if serious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:25 PM) Not sure if serious... a bit sarcastic, but wouldn't be surprised if it swayed some of the voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think Trout deserves it, but Cabrera will win it and it won't be that close. The Triple Crown will clinch it for too many voters, and I think to an extent, a lot of voters will rationalize it by thinking, "Trout is so good that he'll probably win it some other year where he's played a full season on a playoff team in a year where there wasn't a Triple Crown." If there are 28 voters, I'm predicting 18-10 in favor of Cabrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) Something that hasn't happened in over 45 years is hard to overrate. If someone hit 25 triples next year, would we think twice about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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