southsider2k5 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 26, 2012 -> 08:55 PM) I can't agree with this 100%. This year's team seemed more talented. In the big picture the result was the same. No competitors when it comes to the veterans. They choke no matter who's managing. This years team lost Santos, Buehrle, and Quentin, not to mention Danks... It was not more talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 20, 2012 -> 08:05 PM) Thankfully Ozzie had that great playoff run as soon as got away from the Sox... Don't understand the Guillen hatred here. He was very good at his job in 2005, but has lost his way since. Same as Kenny Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 09:52 AM) Don't understand the Guillen hatred here. It's not that difficult to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 09:56 AM) It's not that difficult to figure out. Explain it to me then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 09:52 AM) Don't understand the Guillen hatred here. He was very good at his job in 2005, but has lost his way since. Same as Kenny Williams. I can't believe you are still holding on to that narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 10:01 AM) I can't believe you are still holding on to that narrative. What did Williams win without Guillen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 10:09 AM) What did Williams win without Guillen? His last few years here, Ozzie Guillen was the single biggest destroyer of Kenny Williams deals. 2012 proved just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 What do you call a stewardess in search of a promotion? Give up? A pilot hole. Just thought of that o0ne about 5 mins ago. Go Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 10:31 AM) His last few years here, Ozzie Guillen was the single biggest destroyer of Kenny Williams deals. 2012 proved just that. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 09:52 AM) Don't understand the Guillen hatred here. He was very good at his job in 2005, but has lost his way since. Same as Kenny Williams. Cuz he is an insensitive, narcissistic idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 11:55 AM) Cuz he is an insensitive, narcissistic idiot. Who won a World Series as a manager. Goodness, you'd think Guillen was Gene Lamont reading this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 09:52 AM) Don't understand the Guillen hatred here. He was very good at his job in 2005, but has lost his way since. Same as Kenny Williams. There are no emoticons to express the LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 12:16 PM) Who won a World Series as a manager. Goodness, you'd think Guillen was Gene Lamont reading this board. Gene Lamont presided over the most talented Sox team I've ever seen in my life (the juggernaut 1994 club). It's not hard to imagine Gene picking up a ring with that team had it not been for the strike. Ozzie in the past, like Robin now, was good at getting the players to play for him. He was never a smart manager, although he was good with the pitching staff when he worked well with Coop. His ego grew to the point where it negated any strength he had and now he's gone. He was good for 2-3 years, that's it, just like many other players/managers/coaches who happen to drift through the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 11:11 AM) ? ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I want Hamilton, ARod, and Melky! Team Controversy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 27, 2012 -> 10:31 AM) His last few years here, Ozzie Guillen was the single biggest destroyer of Kenny Williams deals. 2012 proved just that. I can't agree with that. Kenny tried to fill holes with the wrong guys. 2012 is just a repeat of the same ending, just different characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 12:54 AM) I can't agree with that. Kenny tried to fill holes with the wrong guys. 2012 is just a repeat of the same ending, just different characters. All you have to do is look at what those guys did either once they left Chicago, or after Guillen left Chicago. Think about it. Swisher, Rios, Vazquez, Dunn... He forced Thome out for Kotsay, etc. 2012 was to a large extent due to rebounds from guys who died under Ozzie, and the farm system way out performing anything anyone outside of the organization ever predicted them to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 08:41 AM) 2012 was to a large extent due to rebounds from guys who died under Ozzie, and the farm system way out performing anything anyone outside of the organization ever predicted them to do. 2011 was "all in". Replace 2012 Sale with 2011 Buehrle and 2012 Peavy with 2011 Peavy and the 2011 team doesn't win more than 84 games either regardless of Rios and Dunn. Edited October 28, 2012 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 09:08 AM) 2011 was "all in". Replace 2012 Sale with 2011 Buehrle and 2012 Peavy with 2011 Peavy and the 2011 team doesn't win more than 84 games either regardless of Rios and Dunn. And despite your quoting fail, "All in" failed under Ozzie's leadership. Someone new at the helm, with much less talent, won more games. Ozzie went to Florida and won less games than the previous manager, with much more talent... again having talented vets with very good histories, suddenly have career worst years under him. Sound familiar? After 2012 the view is clear. Kenny wasn't the problem, Ozzie was. You backed General Lee and lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 09:11 AM) And despite your quoting fail, "All in" failed under Ozzie's leadership. Someone new at the helm, with much less talent, won more games. Ozzie went to Florida and won less games than the previous manager, with much more talent... again having talented vets with very good histories, suddenly have career worst years under him. Sound familiar? After 2012 the view is clear. Kenny wasn't the problem, Ozzie was. You backed General Lee and lost. When you go "all in" and under the most optimal circumstances still likely not break 85 wins that is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 There is no question that Ozzie lost his touch. I am curious to see what Robin can do with a great starting rotation and more talented players.... he clearly won more games with less talent in 2012. I wonder what Hahn will do to build on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 09:16 AM) When you go "all in" and under the most optimal circumstances still likely not break 85 wins that is sad. 2012 wasn't all in. 2011 was. You don't get rid of the players they did and call this "all-in" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 09:28 AM) 2012 wasn't all in. 2011 was. You don't get rid of the players they did and call this "all-in" 2011's "all-in" team wasn't going to win more than 85 games with a top-of-the-rotation of Buehrle/Danks as opposed to Sale/Peavy regardless of how Dunn and Rios played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 09:35 AM) 2011's "all-in" team wasn't going to win more than 85 games with a top-of-the-rotation of Buehrle/Danks as opposed to Sale/Peavy regardless of how Dunn and Rios played. The difference between Dunn and Rios WAR from 2011 to 2012 was about 10. If in contention they don't dump Jackson, and probably add. Considering they won 79 as it was, you're probably not correct. Edited October 28, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 28, 2012 -> 09:40 AM) The difference between Dunn and Rios WAR from 2011 to 2012 was about 10. If in contention they don't dump Jackson, and probably add. Considering they won 79 as it was, you're probably not correct. Exactly. The idea is just silly. Honestly 2012 was one of Williams best years. Looking for something to complain about after as far as this team outperformed just means your vendetta is showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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