Soxbadger Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:00 AM) it really is a problem in the GOP. they walk blindly into these situations where they have been completely set up. they need to be more aware. the moderator of the last debate was unacceptable and should have been replaced. Whether you think she was fair or not, its pretty silly to complain after the fact. Its not like this is reality tv and the moderator is a surprise. Although that would be much more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) The problem with that is Obama continued those same policies, wars, extended the Bush tax cuts, added more tax cuts on top of them, and...well...there we have it. You cant really compare a war that Obama inherited. The right comparison would be between Bush/Iraq and Obama/Libya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) Obama did not continue the Iraq war. Sure he did, he just recently pulled back on it. And then extended the other one. What you just said, however, is an absolute lie. Even the Huffington Post think so... Obama continued the Iraq war all the way through 2011, AND, wanted to extend it (read below). So stop playing pretend with your facts. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/o..._n_1032507.html Edited October 12, 2012 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) Sure he did, he just recently pulled back on it. And then extended the other one. What you just said, however, is an absolute lie. The Iraq War ended in December of last year as scheduled after a planned draw-down. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nation...yX1O_story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:09 AM) The Iraq War ended in December of last year as scheduled after a planned draw-down which was planned by GW. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nation...yX1O_story.html And Obama was elected when? You're not very good with math, are you. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/o..._n_1032507.html Edited October 12, 2012 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:06 AM) You cant really compare a war that Obama inherited. The right comparison would be between Bush/Iraq and Obama/Libya. That comparison doesn't make sense. We didn't invade Libya with ground forces and then set up shop there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) reality tv and the moderator is a surprise. haha, that would be hilarious. but yea, they need to address these issues before they become a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:10 AM) And Obama was elected when? You're not very good with math, are you. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/o..._n_1032507.html Obama ended the Iraq war as was scheduled and planned and agreed to by both Iraqis and the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:10 AM) That comparison doesn't make sense. We didn't invade Libya with ground forces and then set up shop there. Exactly. That is the difference between Obama and Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:11 AM) Obama ended the Iraq war as was scheduled and planned and agreed to by both Iraqis and the US. You mean the deal made and signed by GW Bush. Obama ended the war over 2 years into his own term, BECAUSE of a signed pact by President Bush (fact). Obama asked them (Iraq) if we could leave troops there AFTER that deadline. Read the HuffPost article. "President Obama wanted to stay longer -- as recently as a few weeks ago asking the Iraqi government to allow 10,000, then 3,000 troops to remain past New Year's Eve. But the president ultimately had no choice but to stick to candidate Obama's plan -- thanks, of all things, to an agreement signed by George W. Bush." Edited October 12, 2012 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) The problem with that is Obama continued those same policies, wars, extended the Bush tax cuts, added more tax cuts on top of them, and...well...there we have it. I agree, there have been plenty of struggles for the Obama Administration...but my issue with the way the Republicans have been framing the state of things is just that they act as if they had no part in how we all got here..when in fact they are a very large part in how we got here...but the Obama camp seemed hesitant to point this out at the last debate, largely because they did not want to have to answer for their own struggles...so instead, they chose to just take it and put their head down... I posted after the first debate that this is the response that was needed...Biden does a very good job of saying some of the things that Barack just can't say, or puts himself at much greater risk of saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) You mean the deal made and signed by GW Bush. Obama ended the war over 2 years into her own term, BECAUSE of a signed pact by President Bush (fact). Obama asked them (Iraq) if we could leave troops there AFTER that deadline. Read the HuffPost article. Yes, that deal. He followed the plan that was agreed to by both sides to end the war. So, when I said he ended the war, I was stating a (fact). As the article you linked said, Obama's election allowed the Iraqis to push Bush for more concessions in late 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) You mean the deal made and signed by GW Bush. Obama ended the war over 2 years into his own term, BECAUSE of a signed pact by President Bush (fact). Obama asked them (Iraq) if we could leave troops there AFTER that deadline. Read the HuffPost article. "President Obama wanted to stay longer -- as recently as a few weeks ago asking the Iraqi government to allow 10,000, then 3,000 troops to remain past New Year's Eve. But the president ultimately had no choice but to stick to candidate Obama's plan -- thanks, of all things, to an agreement signed by George W. Bush." But to be fair, that was an explicit part of the Obama stump and McCain vehemently disagreed about providing a deadline. In the middle of that Bush signed that pact because there was also urgency on the Iraqi side to do so. And that Obama oversaw that transition and enforced it is something he should get credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) Yes, that deal. He followed the plan that was agreed to by both sides to end the war. So, when I said he ended the war, I was stating a (fact). As the article you linked said, Obama's election allowed the Iraqis to push Bush for more concessions in late 2008. Only he wanted to nix that deal and extend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 With a small contingent of troops well after combat operations had ended in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) But to be fair, that was an explicit part of the Obama stump and McCain vehemently disagreed about providing a deadline. In the middle of that Bush signed that pact because there was also urgency on the Iraqi side to do so. And that Obama oversaw that transition and enforced it is something he should get credit for. He should also get credit for wanting to extend that war, which he did. Bush, however, gets credit for forcing Obama's hand not allowing it. So, how about we credit both, as we should? Instead of cherry picking facts that support your arguments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) He should also get credit for wanting to extend that war, which he did. Bush, however, gets credit for forcing Obama's hand not allowing it. So, how about we credit both, as we should? Instead of cherry picking facts that support your arguments? What, like your original post that strips away all of the context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) With a small contingent of troops well after combat operations had ended in the country. Yes, a small contingent of only 10,000 troops. Regardless of your spin, which is exactly what you'er doing now, it's still an extension. And the only reason he couldn't? Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) What, like your original post that strips away all of the context? No, my original post was that Obama kept wars going that Bush started WELL into his term. You love playing pretend with your facts. Enjoy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) Yes, a small contingent of only 10,000 troops. Regardless of your spin, which is exactly what you'er doing now, it's still an extension. And the only reason he couldn't? Bush. Actually because of the Iraqis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I just want to know what war Ryan thought wasnt part of the US national interest. Because he kept adamantly stating that he wouldnt do it, so I just wonder what historical war he was referencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) Actually because of the Iraqis. Actually because of Bush. Now stop spinning your wheels, your bias is showing. Not that everyone isn't already aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:14 AM) I agree, there have been plenty of struggles for the Obama Administration...but my issue with the way the Republicans have been framing the state of things is just that they act as if they had no part in how we all got here..when in fact they are a very large part in how we got here...but the Obama camp seemed hesitant to point this out at the last debate, largely because they did not want to have to answer for their own struggles...so instead, they chose to just take it and put their head down... I posted after the first debate that this is the response that was needed...Biden does a very good job of saying some of the things that Barack just can't say, or puts himself at much greater risk of saying. First, this is the case with just about every administration - you inherit certain problems and by timing alone you get credit for fixing certain problems. Second, Obama and the Dems act as if they had no role in it either. Both are to blame for the policies of the last 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) No, my original post was that Obama kept wars going that Bush started WELL into his term. You love playing pretend with your facts. Enjoy that. I didn't comment on Afghanistan because Obama campaigned on increasing that war. Obama "kept" Iraq going by following the scheduled end of the war that all sides agreed to. Saying that he continued the war without noting that he was following the SOF agreement with Iraq for the scheduled end of combat operations and the draw down of troops removes a lot of context. But note that Biden's point was in relation to the deficit and paying for those wars. Bush's budgets pretended that those wars didn't exist and therefore they weren't accounted for in the budget and they certainly weren't paid for and Ryan went right along with that. That comment was centered on supposed budget-hawk Ryan only finding his budget-hawkery in January 2009 after being the budget leader under Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) I just want to know what war Ryan thought wasnt part of the US national interest. Because he kept adamantly stating that he wouldnt do it, so I just wonder what historical war he was referencing. Somalia or other humanitarian causes were the context for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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