The Debates!

[Jenksismyhero]

The spending enacted under Bush when Ryan was lead budget guy is their responsibility. The tax cuts, the unfunded wars, and Medicare are the largest sources of the deficit. That was Biden's point and he was absolutely correct.

 

So 2 of the 3 that Obama and his admin have continued while in office, and half the war costs (and expanded roles of new agencies like Homeland security) - totally not his doing! GMAFB.

[StrangeSox]

So 2 of the 3 that Obama and his admin have continued while in office, and half the war costs (and expanded roles of new agencies like Homeland security) - totally not his doing! GMAFB.

 

Obama would have liked to end a significant portion of the tax cuts but could not thanks to Republican opposition.

 

However, you are still missing Biden's point. Ryan (and the rest of the Republicans) didn't become so concerned about the deficit until 1/20/09. Before that, they were happy to spend heavily while cutting revenues. They are being dishonest when they ignore their role in creating such huge deficit holes. Ryan was directly involved in those budgets and now wants to pretend like he's some deficit-hawk budget genius.

[iamshack]

Obama would have liked to end a significant portion of the tax cuts but could not thanks to Republican opposition.

 

However, you are still missing Biden's point. Ryan (and the rest of the Republicans) didn't become so concerned about the deficit until 1/20/09. Before that, they were happy to spend heavily while cutting revenues. They are being dishonest when they ignore their role in creating such huge deficit holes. Ryan was directly involved in those budgets and now wants to pretend like he's some deficit-hawk budget genius.

And that is a point I think Barack has to make, even if he has to admit to some mistakes. Everyone knows there have been plenty anyways.

[StrangeSox]

I still don't get why he or Biden didn't bring up McConnell's statement about their #1 priority being to make sure Obama was a 1-term president in response to Romney or Ryan trying to claim bipartisanship. Biden had a good opening for that last night.

[Jenksismyhero]

Obama would have liked to end a significant portion of the tax cuts but could not thanks to Republican opposition.

 

However, you are still missing Biden's point. Ryan (and the rest of the Republicans) didn't become so concerned about the deficit until 1/20/09. Before that, they were happy to spend heavily while cutting revenues. They are being dishonest when they ignore their role in creating such huge deficit holes. Ryan was directly involved in those budgets and now wants to pretend like he's some deficit-hawk budget genius.

 

Bulls***. He caved and I was pissed at him for it. He had national support but probably cut some backroom deal in order to drop it.

 

Edit: And you'll notice the campaign unceremoniously dropped the hint that they're now willing to raise the threshold to a person making a million bucks instead of $250k

Edited October 12, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

Bulls***. He caved and I was pissed at him for it. He had national support but probably cut some backroom deal in order to drop it.

 

Yes, he caved to Republican demands. They were not going to allow anything but a full extension.

[StrangeSox]

Ryan's 24 lies:

 

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/...utes?page=0%2C0

[mr_genius]

Ryan's 24 lies:

 

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/...utes?page=0%2C0

 

just read the first one and stopped. seriously? Obama was blaming Youtube for weeks for that terrorist attack.

 

just that the first 'lie exposed' is so incorrect leads me to believe the other 'lies' are also suspect.

[Jenksismyhero]

just read the first one and stopped. seriously? Obama was blaming Youtube for weeks for that terrorist attack.

 

just that the first 'lie exposed' is so incorrect leads me to believe the other 'lies' are also suspect.

 

I was JUST going to post that same response.

[bmags]

But Fannie and Freddie bought up those terrible sub-prime mortgages and were allowed to continue to do so by the congressional Dems.

 

All i'm saying is it's not exactly honest of Biden to point to Ryan and say "this is all on you guys." This was a problem that took decades to develop, even if the wars became a substantial cost later on.

 

I understand that, but after that travesty of risk management by the worlds financial institutions, the republicans only response to the financial regulation bills was to make sure it didn't pass, and then put in a congressman to lead the house banking committee whose belief is the banks should regulate themselves.

 

And also, lots of companies were buying up those terrible sub prime mortgages.

 

BUT, I am against the democratic support of Frannie and Freddie and I do not believe they add value to the united states. However, I do not think the "it was wall street" " not it was exclusively these two banks that the democrats like" explain anything on the ridiculous behaviors that contributed to the global financial crisis.

[Y2HH]

Even with the .com collapse, things were nowhere near as bad as in '08-'09. Agree?

 

Sorry back. Of course I'd agree with that, but that's not what he said.

 

After I mentioned Bush had inherited a mess of his own, he basically said the .com collapse wasn't historic.

 

Well, it was, and he continues to be wrong by claiming otherwise.

 

I wasn't saying it's historic in comparison to X or Y, I was merely saying it was historic. And it was.

[Y2HH]

Yes, seriously. The stock market is not the economy, but even if it were a perfect measure, you'd still be wrong.

 

 

 

You've jumped the reasoning shark now.

 

My statement, that the .com collapse was historic, was and is accurate no matter how you try to spin this.

[iamshack]

This thread is a perfect barometer of where politics are in this country today. No one wants to work through the differences. Everyone just wants to forward their own agenda and back their team.

[Y2HH]

This thread is a perfect barometer of where politics are in this country today. No one wants to work through the differences. Everyone just wants to forward their own agenda and back their team.

 

Exactly what I said early on.

[mr_genius]

This thread is a perfect barometer of where politics are in this country today. No one wants to work through the differences. Everyone just wants to forward their own agenda and back their team.

 

very noble of you. so why don't you lead by stating all the things you think Romney, Ryan and the GOP have done correctly.

[iamshack]

Sorry back. Of course I'd agree with that, but that's not what he said.

 

After I mentioned Bush had inherited a mess of his own, he basically said the .com collapse wasn't historic.

 

Well, it was, and he continues to be wrong by claiming otherwise.

 

I wasn't saying it's historic in comparison to X or Y, I was merely saying it was historic. And it was.

But you replied to what I posted originally...

[Y2HH]

very noble of you. so why don't you lead by stating all the things you think Romney, Ryan and the GOP have done correctly.

 

He has a point, though.

[mr_genius]

He has a point, though.

 

I never said he didn't

[Y2HH]

But you replied to what I posted originally...

 

I replied to show an example that all Presidents inherit something bad, to some degree, some worse than others. Obama at least held an advantage in that he knew what he was inheriting before he inherited it, so if he didn't want the job, he didn't have to take it. Some of them enter office and inherit stuff nobody knows about yet...but that excuse aside, we elect these leaders to lead us out of these issues, not stand there and blame everyone else for failing to do so.

 

But as usual, my point is met with typical partisan bulls***.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Y2HH

[iamshack]

very noble of you. so why don't you lead by stating all the things you think Romney, Ryan and the GOP have done correctly.

I voted for GWB twice...I'm not a democrat or a republican, I'm an independent.

 

I give credit to the reps for having the spine to get things done...it just so happens that I'm sick of many of their values at this point. Meanwhile, I like many of the dems ideals better, but they seem to be too big of p*****s to actually get things done.

 

I do admit I believe Barack is the better of the two candidates. But I also believed GWB was the better of the candidates when it came to Gore and Kerry.

 

 

 

[iamshack]

I replied to show an example that all Presidents inherit something bad, to some degree, some worse than others. Obama at least held an advantage in that he knew what he was inheriting before he inherited it, so if he didn't want the job, he didn't have to take it. Some of them enter office and inherit stuff nobody knows about yet...but that excuse aside, we elect these leaders to lead us out of these issues, not stand there and blame everyone else for failing to do so.

 

But as usual, my point is met with typical partisan bulls***.

Gotcha...fair enough.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I replied to show an example that all Presidents inherit something bad, to some degree, some worse than others. Obama at least held an advantage in that he knew what he was inheriting before he inherited it, so if he didn't want the job, he didn't have to take it. Some of them enter office and inherit stuff nobody knows about yet...but that excuse aside, we elect these leaders to lead us out of these issues, not stand there and blame everyone else for failing to do so.

 

But as usual, my point is met with typical partisan bulls***.

So you think we were better off in Jan of 2009 (when Obama took office) than we are today?

[mr_genius]

I give credit to the reps for having the spine to get things done.

 

like what? what have they done that you agree with.

[southsider2k5]

I understand that, but after that travesty of risk management by the worlds financial institutions, the republicans only response to the financial regulation bills was to make sure it didn't pass, and then put in a congressman to lead the house banking committee whose belief is the banks should regulate themselves.

 

And also, lots of companies were buying up those terrible sub prime mortgages.

 

BUT, I am against the democratic support of Frannie and Freddie and I do not believe they add value to the united states. However, I do not think the "it was wall street" " not it was exclusively these two banks that the democrats like" explain anything on the ridiculous behaviors that contributed to the global financial crisis.

 

And why were they taking that risk? Because they could just sell the loans to Fannie and Freddie.

 

[Y2HH]

So you think we were better off in Jan of 2009 (when Obama took office) than we are today?

 

I can't speak for "we", I can speak for me.

 

I am better off now on an overall scale than I've ever been, I said this much in the Democrat thread. The issue is most of (if not all) of that gain is negated by local taxes and fees surging. That said, I was better off in 2009 than I was in 2006, or 2007, and I'm better off now than I was in 2009.

 

I'm a bit of an exception to the rule when it comes to this, however, as every year since my career began I've been better off the year after, successively, regardless of the economy.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Y2HH